Returning my rMB, don't like it enough to keep it.

enduser99 · Apr 17, 2015

Hi,

I thought folks here would be interested in my alternate opinion, I bought the rMB (1.2Ghz 5Y51 / 512GB SSD) on opening day, and had it for a few days already. I'm returning it, here's why.

I'm coming from a 13-inch MBA MID-2012, 1.8GHz Core i5. 8GB RAM / 256GB SSD. Plan was to replace it, and it is my one and only machine. I use it for business. I am a professional in the tech business, an engineer, but not a developer. I run MS Office, Chrome (yeah I know!), and Parallels for some Win7 apps (eg. Quickbooks).

I also sit in random places around my home, not at an office desk. I don't use a large monitor and keyboard in any kind of "docking" scenario. My notebook is it!

1. Performance. Too much UI lag on the rMB, even compared to my mid-2012 MBA. Running Parallels really bogged it down. Changing screen res didn't really help. Even scrolling in Outlook for MAC (v15), felt too laggy. Swiping between desktops (even without Parallels running) seemed not as smooth.

2. Keyboard "too small". I know, it's not smaller... but it is for me, because where I place the palms of my hands on my MBA, I USE that aluminum Realestate. Okay, I'mm not a touch typist of the traditional ilk, I have my own methods, but where I place my hands on the rMB, they are on the edges of the device, and those edges are sharp feeling. When the device is on my lap, or im in some other position, I just cant get quite as comfortable with where my hands sit. Having a place to rest them on the MBA is nice.

3. Magsafe. I love Magsafe. my dogs rip the power cord out too often as it is. A life saver.

4. Bundled power cord is too short! Does not come with the extension that my MBA did. Can't sit and charge in most places. And the battery life wasn't that great on the rMB (Chrome!) that I felt like I didn't need to normally sit with the wall adapter plugged in. Normally with my mBA I sit with it on AC all day. I know this can be fixed with a purchase of the extension cord, but it just annoyed me as an out of box experience, and one more darn thing to buy.

5. Cost, basically, given the above issues, I just don't find the VALUE in replacing my mid-2012 13" MBA with this device. The rMB is NOT faster and its harder for me to type on. If I was coming from an older mBA or an 11" MBA, I'd probably feel differently. To me, it's not a big enough jump to make it worth the upgrade investment today.

JonnyIreland · Apr 17, 2015

It's nice to read another viewpoint, and I'm not here to bash in any way... But surely points 2-5 were predictable in advance?
As someone who is waiting for their rMB to ship (& have already sold my existing MBP), it is frustrating to see a unit allocated to someone who was probably never going to like it. This isn't a personal attack, just frustrating to see from my side of the fence.

Rhcpcjg · Apr 17, 2015

JonnyIreland said:
It's nice to read another viewpoint, and I'm not here to bash in any way... But surely points 2-5 were predictable in advance?
As someone who is waiting for their rMB to ship (& have already sold my existing MBP), it is frustrating to see a unit allocated to someone who was probably never going to like it. This isn't a personal attack, just frustrating to see from my side of the fence.

What? how in the world is apple suppose to know who's gonna return a laptop or not?? do you think people at the apple warehouse say: "no, do not ship this unit to this guy, he's gonna return it, lets ship it to JonnyIreland, guaranteed he's going to keep it, no way he's not gonna like it"

c'mon man... let people take advantage of the return policy, there is a reason why there is one.

enduser99 · Apr 17, 2015

JonnyIreland said:
It's nice to read another viewpoint, and I'm not here to bash in any way... But surely points 2-5 were predictable in advance?
As someone who is waiting for their rMB to ship (& have already sold my existing MBP), it is frustrating to see a unit allocated to someone who was probably never going to like it. This isn't a personal attack, just frustrating to see from my side of the fence.

The issue with the keyboard, sight unseen, was not predictable to me. Something you have to try. And no, I did not know the power cord was shorter than my MBA.

Honestly, I could live without the Magsafe, especially if it really lasted ALL DAY, then I wouldn't need to charge it. I literally use my Notebook for probably 12 hours a day, so its gonna sit on the charger at some time. The battery life isn't good enough to do without magsafe! I am sure Apple's wisdom is that "hey, this thing lasts all day, just charge it at night like your iPhone", but that argument falls apart for me! I didn't know that the battery wouldn't last as long as I had hoped.

Also, the VALUE statement I made really could not be assessed until after all of the above were added up and weighed against just keeping my existing MBA. This is not a decision of which NEW macbook to get, I'm saying I'd rather keep the money and stick with my old MBA 2012. And I can afford a new machine at any time, but I don't feel like paying to step backwards in so many ways.

And by the way, I bought a Silver, nobody seems to be clamoring for those. My opinion is that the material is Aluminum and the color should not pretend to be any other material than what it is, in a purist design sense. It's not made of friggin' gold, so why should it look gold? Also, scratch the thing, and guess what color you're gonna see? Hmm... anyway, that was a tangent, but I had to get it out there -- the new colors are pure hype and a diversion from purist good design!

thadoggfather · Apr 17, 2015

that's fair, by the end of the day this is why theres a variety of laptop options by apple. If it was unanimously one model that ruled all, they wouldn't sell others.

JonnyIreland · Apr 17, 2015

I think you misread or misunderstood.... I never said that Apple has to do/know anything, I'm referring to the OP not anticipating "issues" 2-5 that were all predictable ahead of having an rMB at hand... I haven't seen or touched one yet, but I already know the issues, pros, cons, specs etc -and I'm assuming the OP did too if they care enough to post here.
I will stress again though that it isn't a personal attack and I don't mean any bad feeling.
If anything, it is WAY more frustrating to read posts from people who ordered 2 Apple Watches "but will return the one I don't want, or maybe return both". It's a very selfish attitude.

SlickVik · Apr 17, 2015

I'll be returning mine as well - primary reason is 12" is just too damn small to get any real work done. I was trying to replace a 15" rMBP and the rMB would have been perfect if it weren't for the screen size - If they make a 14" rMB with support for 4K/60hz / 5K out that would be perfect for me. The biggest thing I was originally worried about - performance - wasn't even an issue.

SusanK · Apr 17, 2015

JonnyIreland said:
It's nice to read another viewpoint, and I'm not here to bash in any way... But surely points 2-5 were predictable in advance?
As someone who is waiting for their rMB to ship (& have already sold my existing MBP), it is frustrating to see a unit allocated to someone who was probably never going to like it. This isn't a personal attack, just frustrating to see from my side of the fence.

Your frustration is understandable. Apple bears the responsibility for this. The company decided to launch a product it could not supply. I doubt you are unhappy with the OP. No way to try the unit before buying as Apple dos not have demos in their stores.

Very poor launch Apple.

thadoggfather · Apr 17, 2015

JonnyIreland said:
I think you misread or misunderstood.... I never said that Apple has to do/know anything, I'm referring to the OP not anticipating "issues" 2-5 that were all predictable ahead of having an rMB at hand... I haven't seen or touched one yet, but I already know the issues, pros, cons, specs etc -and I'm assuming the OP did too if they care enough to post here.
I will stress again though that it isn't a personal attack and I don't mean any bad feeling.
If anything, it is WAY more frustrating to read posts from people who ordered 2 Apple Watches "but will return the one I don't want, or maybe return both". It's a very selfish attitude.

these are constants though-- people making impulse purchases. the variables are your attitude towards it and apple's ability (or as of recent, inability) to supply the devices.

anecdotally, I bought a 6+ thinking it would reinforce my love for the 6, and the phablet would be intriguing but overwhelming. The second I took that thing home and out of the box, I knew I was gonna sell my 6 and move on.

Similar situation with rMB, didn't necessarily think it'd be practical and had almost deal breaking reservations about trying it knowing there's only one port, albeit a flexible one, but man oh man I love this thing and parted with rMBP immediately even though that too is a fine piece of equipment.

tried an Air 2, and though its performance is awesome and such and 2gb of ram is appreciated, I just like the mini iPad form factor more. so it didn't wow me and i didnt think it would since I happily migrated from iPad3 to it.

Now more than ever my iPad gets neglected but I doubt its worth being without an additional jailbreak device and getting low amount of money for something that has a lot of utility and has served me well.

JonnyIreland · Apr 17, 2015

SusanK said:
Your frustration is understandable. Apple bears the responsibility for this. The company decided to launch a product it could not supply. I doubt you are unhappy with the OP. No way to try the unit before buying as Apple dos not have demos in their stores.

Very poor launch Apple.

Thanks, you actually said what I was trying to say, but in a much better way. Like I said, it's not an attack. You said it well, we've all grown to have a certain level of expectation from an Apple product launch, and right now they are literally not delivering.

Rogifan · Apr 17, 2015

JonnyIreland said:
Thanks, you actually said what I was trying to say, but in a much better way. Like I said, it's not an attack. You said it well, we've all grown to have a certain level of expectation from an Apple product launch, and right now they are literally not delivering.

There are Apple stores that have demos. And just tonight I played with a demo unit at Best Buy. They had gold and space gray models on the floor.

GiantCow · Apr 17, 2015

I think anyone buying the MB thinking it will be a viable replacement for the MBP will be disappointed. This should not come as a surprise.

enduser99 · Apr 17, 2015

GiantCow said:
I think anyone buying the MB thinking it will be a viable replacement for the MBP will be disappointed. This should not come as a surprise.

Agreed, but I have an Air.. an old 2012 model!

jasonj566 · Apr 17, 2015

Just use the extension cord from your other laptop, mine works great

JonnyIreland · Apr 17, 2015

Rogifan said:
There are Apple stores that have demos. And just tonight I played with a demo unit at Best Buy. They had gold and space gray models on the floor.

Unfortunately, not in the far-flung outpost of Canada.

Vanilla Face · Apr 17, 2015

I know exactly what you are talking about with your problem with the keyboard. The same thing happens to me when I use my girlfriend's 15" MBP. Basically your wrist feels where it is against the edge and then your mind judges where the keys should be based on that information. I think you would have gotten used to this after using it for a while.

With that said, what kind of battery life were you experiencing?

enduser99 · Apr 17, 2015

Vanilla Face said:
I know exactly what you are talking about with your problem with the keyboard. The same thing happens to me when I use my girlfriend's 15" MBP. Basically your wrist feels where it is against the edge and then your mind judges where the keys should be based on that information. I think you would have gotten used to this after using it for a while.

With that said, what kind of battery life were you experiencing?

It was starting off at full charge claiming about 7 hours remaining. I don't think I got that much. I think, if they truly got "all day" life, then magsafe is not needed, and a longer cable would not be required since I would only charge it at night like my phone. So, I think in a few generations we will be there, or maybe the next 13' MBA with USB-C will be just fine given that has some serious battery capacity.

tech324 · Apr 17, 2015

enduser99 said:
The issue with the keyboard, sight unseen, was not predictable to me. Something you have to try. And no, I did not know the power cord was shorter than my MBA.

Honestly, I could live without the Magsafe, especially if it really lasted ALL DAY, then I wouldn't need to charge it. I literally use my Notebook for probably 12 hours a day, so its gonna sit on the charger at some time. The battery life isn't good enough to do without magsafe! I am sure Apple's wisdom is that "hey, this thing lasts all day, just charge it at night like your iPhone", but that argument falls apart for me! I didn't know that the battery wouldn't last as long as I had hoped.

Also, the VALUE statement I made really could not be assessed until after all of the above were added up and weighed against just keeping my existing MBA. This is not a decision of which NEW macbook to get, I'm saying I'd rather keep the money and stick with my old MBA 2012. And I can afford a new machine at any time, but I don't feel like paying to step backwards in so many ways.

And by the way, I bought a Silver, nobody seems to be clamoring for those. My opinion is that the material is Aluminum and the color should not pretend to be any other material than what it is, in a purist design sense. It's not made of friggin' gold, so why should it look gold? Also, scratch the thing, and guess what color you're gonna see? Hmm... anyway, that was a tangent, but I had to get it out there -- the new colors are pure hype and a diversion from purist good design!

I appreciate your viewpoint on returning it. I for one played with a few at the Apple store and noticed the UI lag as well. I think this will bother quite a few people into returning theirs. I also agree with you on the silver, I kind of liked it better than the space grey and gold. It seemed more natural to me than the others.

dexterbell · Apr 17, 2015

tech324 said:
I appreciate your viewpoint on returning it. I for one played with a few at the Apple store and noticed the UI lag as well. I think this will bother quite a few people into returning theirs.

Return it and buy what? Even the new rMBP 13 has UI lag. People are going to spend $2500 on a rMBP 15 just so they don't have to deal with a split second lag? Seems silly to me

https://www.macrumors.com/2015/04/06/2015-macbook-pro-ui-lag-os-x-yosemite/

objektør · Apr 17, 2015

enduser99 said:
And by the way, I bought a Silver, nobody seems to be clamoring for those. My opinion is that the material is Aluminum and the color should not pretend to be any other material than what it is, in a purist design sense. It's not made of friggin' gold, so why should it look gold? Also, scratch the thing, and guess what color you're gonna see? Hmm... anyway, that was a tangent, but I had to get it out there -- the new colors are pure hype and a diversion from purist good design!

That's what I thought.
Just send it to me then as we seem to be the only two clamoring for those...

maflynn · Apr 18, 2015

dexterbell said:
Return it and buy what? Even the new rMBP 13 has UI lag. People are going to spend $2500 on a rMBP 15 just so they don't have to deal with a split second lag? Seems silly to me

https://www.macrumors.com/2015/04/06/2015-macbook-pro-ui-lag-os-x-yosemite/

No, but by the same token, why spend over 1,200 dollars and get something that is slower then the OP had originally.

legioxi · Apr 18, 2015

I can't change your mind on the opinion based items but for two of the others:

Use VMware fusion instead of parallels. Works really well on my rmb

Also swap the mains plug from your air to the adapter for your rmb. They're modular.

ZipZap · Apr 18, 2015

enduser99 said:
Hi,

I thought folks here would be interested in my alternate opinion, I bought the rMB (1.2Ghz 5Y51 / 512GB SSD) on opening day, and had it for a few days already. I'm returning it, here's why.

I'm coming from a 13-inch MBA MID-2012, 1.8GHz Core i5. 8GB RAM / 256GB SSD. Plan was to replace it, and it is my one and only machine. I use it for business. I am a professional in the tech business, an engineer, but not a developer. I run MS Office, Chrome (yeah I know!), and Parallels for some Win7 apps (eg. Quickbooks).

I also sit in random places around my home, not at an office desk. I don't use a large monitor and keyboard in any kind of "docking" scenario. My notebook is it!

1. Performance. Too much UI lag on the rMB, even compared to my mid-2012 MBA. Running Parallels really bogged it down. Changing screen res didn't really help. Even scrolling in Outlook for MAC (v15), felt too laggy. Swiping between desktops (even without Parallels running) seemed not as smooth.

2. Keyboard "too small". I know, it's not smaller... but it is for me, because where I place the palms of my hands on my MBA, I USE that aluminum Realestate. Okay, I'mm not a touch typist of the traditional ilk, I have my own methods, but where I place my hands on the rMB, they are on the edges of the device, and those edges are sharp feeling. When the device is on my lap, or im in some other position, I just cant get quite as comfortable with where my hands sit. Having a place to rest them on the MBA is nice.

3. Magsafe. I love Magsafe. my dogs rip the power cord out too often as it is. A life saver.

4. Bundled power cord is too short! Does not come with the extension that my MBA did. Can't sit and charge in most places. And the battery life wasn't that great on the rMB (Chrome!) that I felt like I didn't need to normally sit with the wall adapter plugged in. Normally with my mBA I sit with it on AC all day. I know this can be fixed with a purchase of the extension cord, but it just annoyed me as an out of box experience, and one more darn thing to buy.

5. Cost, basically, given the above issues, I just don't find the VALUE in replacing my mid-2012 13" MBA with this device. The rMB is NOT faster and its harder for me to type on. If I was coming from an older mBA or an 11" MBA, I'd probably feel differently. To me, it's not a big enough jump to make it worth the upgrade investment today.

Not sure why you even thought you could replace you current machine with the rMB.

----------

Rhcpcjg said:
What? how in the world is apple suppose to know who's gonna return a laptop or not?? do you think people at the apple warehouse say: "no, do not ship this unit to this guy, he's gonna return it, lets ship it to JonnyIreland, guaranteed he's going to keep it, no way he's not gonna like it"

c'mon man... let people take advantage of the return policy, there is a reason why there is one.

Huh?

There was a 99% chance that the rMB would not work well for his circumstances.
He wasted a unit on a 1% hope that it might.

----------

SlickVik said:
I'll be returning mine as well - primary reason is 12" is just too damn small to get any real work done. I was trying to replace a 15" rMBP and the rMB would have been perfect if it weren't for the screen size - If they make a 14" rMB with support for 4K/60hz / 5K out that would be perfect for me. The biggest thing I was originally worried about - performance - wasn't even an issue.

Look at your requirementsI'm not the brightest bulb but even I could have predicted you would not like it.

And what's up with all the rMBP owners thinking that the rMB is an upgrade path?

close2reality · Apr 18, 2015

dexterbell said:
Return it and buy what? Even the new rMBP 13 has UI lag. People are going to spend $2500 on a rMBP 15 just so they don't have to deal with a split second lag? Seems silly to me

https://www.macrumors.com/2015/04/06/2015-macbook-pro-ui-lag-os-x-yosemite/

Question, is it driver related or is UI lag actually a hardware issue?

masotime · Apr 18, 2015

enduser99 said:
I'm coming from a 13-inch MBA MID-2012, 1.8GHz Core i5. 8GB RAM / 256GB SSD. Plan was to replace it, and it is my one and only machine. I use it for business. I am a professional in the tech business, an engineer, but not a developer. I run MS Office, Chrome (yeah I know!), and Parallels for some Win7 apps (eg. Quickbooks).

If you're going to virtualize, which is not a insignificant requirement processor-wise, I'd say get an rMBP which has considerably more horsepower.

I also sit in random places around my home, not at an office desk. I don't use a large monitor and keyboard in any kind of "docking" scenario. My notebook is it!

Portability is considerably less of a concern at home. A rMBP is a much better choice if you're just moving around your home most of the time.

1. Performance. Too much UI lag on the rMB, even compared to my mid-2012 MBA. Running Parallels really bogged it down. Changing screen res didn't really help. Even scrolling in Outlook for MAC (v15), felt too laggy. Swiping between desktops (even without Parallels running) seemed not as smooth.

The resolution consist of around 4 times the number of pixels of an MBA. UI Lag is going to be inevitable. Get an rMBP. Maybe get a 15" rMBP for the dedicated GFX

2. Keyboard "too small". I know, it's not smaller... but it is for me, because where I place the palms of my hands on my MBA, I USE that aluminum Realestate. Okay, I'mm not a touch typist of the traditional ilk, I have my own methods, but where I place my hands on the rMB, they are on the edges of the device, and those edges are sharp feeling. When the device is on my lap, or im in some other position, I just cant get quite as comfortable with where my hands sit. Having a place to rest them on the MBA is nice.

3. Magsafe. I love Magsafe. my dogs rip the power cord out too often as it is. A life saver.

4. Bundled power cord is too short! Does not come with the extension that my MBA did. Can't sit and charge in most places. And the battery life wasn't that great on the rMB (Chrome!) that I felt like I didn't need to normally sit with the wall adapter plugged in. Normally with my mBA I sit with it on AC all day. I know this can be fixed with a purchase of the extension cord, but it just annoyed me as an out of box experience, and one more darn thing to buy.

An rMBP will solve all these problems, since it essentially has the same keyboard and charging accessories / mechanism as the MBA

5. Cost, basically, given the above issues, I just don't find the VALUE in replacing my mid-2012 13" MBA with this device. The rMB is NOT faster and its harder for me to type on. If I was coming from an older mBA or an 11" MBA, I'd probably feel differently. To me, it's not a big enough jump to make it worth the upgrade investment today.

An rMBP is incredible value for any professional for the given specs.

Honestly, I could live without the Magsafe, especially if it really lasted ALL DAY, then I wouldn't need to charge it. I literally use my Notebook for probably 12 hours a day, so its gonna sit on the charger at some time. The battery life isn't good enough to do without magsafe! I am sure Apple's wisdom is that "hey, this thing lasts all day, just charge it at night like your iPhone", but that argument falls apart for me! I didn't know that the battery wouldn't last as long as I had hoped.

Your Macbook is going to sit on a charger, battery "endurance" is not an issue. An rMBP sounds perfect!

And by the way, I bought a Silver, nobody seems to be clamoring for those. My opinion is that the material is Aluminum and the color should not pretend to be any other material than what it is, in a purist design sense. It's not made of friggin' gold, so why should it look gold? Also, scratch the thing, and guess what color you're gonna see? Hmm... anyway, that was a tangent, but I had to get it out there -- the new colors are pure hype and a diversion from purist good design!

The rMBP comes in all natural Silver!

----

IMO I really think you probably didn't get the right Macbook for your needs. The rMB is significantly more portable than the MBA, but you don't seem to have mentioned it at all in your evaluation. I'd strongly recommend (if I haven't enough already

) getting the rMBP. If it was the only computing device I'd own, I would never just get the rMB, because it just doesn't have the horsepower, especially for the serious professional. At least pair it with an iMac, if not an rMBP.

Bottom line: If it's your only machine, and you use it professionally, don't get the rMB. Get a rMBP.

Returning my rMB, don't like it enough to keep it.

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