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Old Mar 17, 2006, 01:15 AM   #1
Backtothemac
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Removed XP

Well, I installed it on my MacBook Pro. After the install, and getting the wireless working finally! I removed it from the iCurve and went to the sofa. It was so hot that it was pushing the heat through the piece of 1/4 inch plywood that my lap desk is made out of. I could see heat rising in front of the LCD.

Here is the thing. On some Intel boards, the drivers for the board themselves control the speed of the fans, and when they kick on. OR it will be in the bios. Well, there is no bios on these machines.

I STRONGLY encourage everyone to take a second and think about this. The X1600 will probably never work because it is flashed for a Mac Rom. Now, you could probably flash it, but then you would forever have a PC laptop. If you want to run OS X on this, DO NOT flash your rom on your X1600.

Now, XP is fast. Real fast, and that makes me think that the next revision of VPC will be EXTREMELY fast because it will not have to emulate the processors. In addition, it is going to unload the graphics on one of the procs in the core duo systems. No, it will not use the X1600, but hey, there are Mac versions of most of the games, and if not, we always have playstation and Xbox 360.

I just personally cannot risk XP not controling the processor temp, and letting my MacBook cook itself.

Good luck to everyone that does this, I hope it works out for you.

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Old Mar 17, 2006, 01:54 AM   #2
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after reading some posts about running XP on IntelMac - I think your notion is good - wait until VPC is optimized for IntelMac's - then you can run XP and OSX side by side...
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Old Mar 17, 2006, 02:07 AM   #3
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I would have to agree there. I seriously pondered partitioning my HDD. Then I read this thread. Good thing, too! C'mon VPC!
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Old Mar 17, 2006, 02:16 AM   #4
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Well, I am not trying to deminish what has been accomplished. Amazing really. If Apple would create a solution that would allow for dual booting with an license from Microsoft and drive support for the hardware, I think they would sell twice as many Macs as they do now.

AND, I think this is going to force Apple to do just that. There is no reason from a marketing standpoint why they would fail to take advantage of the opportunity that is before them. I would be very disapointed if they do not. We will know what there plans are if Microsoft doesn't patch VPC for the Intel Macs. If they don't then they know Apple will do just what I have described.
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Old Mar 17, 2006, 02:26 AM   #5
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so it is true that this method of xp on mac makes the macbook run especially hot? or not? anyone other macbook pro users experience similar things?

thanks,
r.
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Old Mar 17, 2006, 02:42 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Backtothemac

AND, I think this is going to force Apple to do just that. There is no reason from a marketing standpoint why they would fail to take advantage of the opportunity that is before them. I would be very disapointed if they do not. We will know what there plans are if Microsoft doesn't patch VPC for the Intel Macs. If they don't then they know Apple will do just what I have described.
As a licensed vendor of Windows, Apple would be obligated to provide technical support, which would be a nightmare! Lest not forget Apple has their own operating system to worry about. Never gonna happen if you ask me.

Someone may come out with a more official solution endorsed by Microsoft, akin to flip4mac, but it won't be Apple.
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Old Mar 17, 2006, 02:55 AM   #7
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The dual-boot stuff really is for early adopters rght now, booting is only the first hurdle. Right now, with people flailing about loading up random drivers from other computers to make things sort of work, it's not going to be a satisfactory system for people who aren't interested in tinkering.

It's only been out for a day or so. Come back to it after the rough edges have been shaken out. It's probably not going to come from a magic set of other-vendor downloads, but from someone with a clue who writes or patches the missing drivers.
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Old Mar 17, 2006, 03:24 AM   #8
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I fully expect we won't see VPC for Intel Macs for a year or so, but virtualization should be an easy thing when you're running on the processor you're emulating. if we can fake an x86 processor on a ppc faking an x86 on an x86 can't be too hard.

so I fully expect we'll see open source projects springing up for this, hopefully soon.

after that - graphics, then the world!

dual booting is for [insert insult]s.
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Old Mar 17, 2006, 03:30 AM   #9
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One ray of hope in all of this is ATI's Radeon 9600 Mac and PC Edition. If they can put two BIOSes on one card, they may do it again, in which case we could see a system with video card support for BOTH OSes. How sweet would that be? I think if ATI can realize the potential for it they'll make it, too.
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Old Mar 17, 2006, 03:37 AM   #10
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where's the potential for them? they're charging half again as much for Mac graphics cards, and designing cards that can work in either system doesn't change that you can only use the card in one system at a time. (hence, same value to users.)

I don't really understand why they even made it in the first place. I mean, it would be nice to have, especially now, but we're talking about capitalism here.

now that you mention it though, that could well be the problem... plugging a Mac graphics card into a PC won't do squat, and that's basically what's going on here.

I wonder what would happen if you pop in an x1600 PC edition card and boot to Windows...
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Old Mar 17, 2006, 04:10 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueRevolution

I wonder what would happen if you pop in an x1600 PC edition card and boot to Windows...
arent the GPU soldered / integrated onto the motherboard so you couldn't simply pop it out...
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Old Mar 17, 2006, 04:16 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Backtothemac
Well, I installed it on my MacBook Pro. After the install, and getting the wireless working finally! I removed it from the iCurve and went to the sofa. It was so hot that it was pushing the heat through the piece of 1/4 inch plywood that my lap desk is made out of. I could see heat rising in front of the LCD.
This is absolutely true.
My MacBook Pro 2.0Ghz seemed to be running in silent mode when I have XP booted up. Scary for a 2.0GHz dual core to be running quiet actually. DEFINITE increase in heat output... to a concerning extent. No doubt.

I'll be accepting of the accomplishments. And say oh well. A functional MacBook Pro beats an overheated non-functional windows laptop ANY DAY! I'll wait for my UB apps.
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Old Mar 17, 2006, 04:35 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by kerbawya
[B][SIZE="5"]A functional MacBook Pro beats an overheated non-functional windows laptop ANY DAY!
Is there such a thing as a "functional" miCrapsoft winBlows laptop?!

I just had to do it...
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Old Mar 17, 2006, 06:04 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by freddiecable
after reading some posts about running XP on IntelMac - I think your notion is good - wait until VPC is optimized for IntelMac's - then you can run XP and OSX side by side...
haha lol 13 grand well spent
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Old Mar 17, 2006, 06:15 AM   #15
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Just wondering: does the Ubuntu live CD have the same problems?
I am still waiting for my MacBook Pro to arrive; ordered it 18th of january, delivery now set for april 4th...
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Old Mar 17, 2006, 06:21 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by BlueRevolution
I fully expect we won't see VPC for Intel Macs for a year or so, but virtualization should be an easy thing when you're running on the processor you're emulating. if we can fake an x86 processor on a ppc faking an x86 on an x86 can't be too hard.
Normally, I'd agree with you. But we're talking about Microsoft, the company that publicly announced that they won't be able to get Vista booting from EFI hardware by the end of this year, yet 2 Californians can get XP (which was never written for EFI) booting in about 1 month. With a record like that, we may never see VPC again!

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Old Mar 17, 2006, 06:29 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Backtothemac
I STRONGLY encourage everyone to take a second and think about this. The X1600 will probably never work because it is flashed for a Mac Rom. Now, you could probably flash it, but then you would forever have a PC laptop. If you want to run OS X on this, DO NOT flash your rom on your X1600.
I wouldn't be so sure about this. The different ROM was needed of the endian issues and the like stemming from the PPC, with an Intel setup, there'd be no need for a Mac Rom Video card
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Old Mar 17, 2006, 06:50 AM   #18
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Exclamation Too Hot!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Backtothemac
Well, I installed it on my MacBook Pro. After the install, and getting the wireless working finally! I removed it from the iCurve and went to the sofa. It was so hot that it was pushing the heat through the piece of 1/4 inch plywood that my lap desk is made out of. I could see heat rising in front of the LCD.

Here is the thing. On some Intel boards, the drivers for the board themselves control the speed of the fans, and when they kick on. OR it will be in the bios. Well, there is no bios on these machines.

I STRONGLY encourage everyone to take a second and think about this. The X1600 will probably never work because it is flashed for a Mac Rom. Now, you could probably flash it, but then you would forever have a PC laptop. If you want to run OS X on this, DO NOT flash your rom on your X1600.

Now, XP is fast. Real fast, and that makes me think that the next revision of VPC will be EXTREMELY fast because it will not have to emulate the processors. In addition, it is going to unload the graphics on one of the procs in the core duo systems. No, it will not use the X1600, but hey, there are Mac versions of most of the games, and if not, we always have playstation and Xbox 360.

I just personally cannot risk XP not controling the processor temp, and letting my MacBook cook itself.

Good luck to everyone that does this, I hope it works out for you.

B2TM
I figured that this would happen. There's no drivers to control the fan/s in the iMac and MacBook Pro. Maybe down the road there might, but until then I wouldn't recomend any one actually use XP on their Macs until then.

Hate to see a melted Mac!


-Hugh
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Old Mar 17, 2006, 06:59 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Backtothemac

I STRONGLY encourage everyone to take a second and think about this. The X1600 will probably never work because it is flashed for a Mac Rom. Now, you could probably flash it, but then you would forever have a PC laptop.
I think this is a little premature. I expect that within two weeks we'll have functional Mac drivers for the X1600 as well as everything else -- as to the fan issue - I'm sure that can be figured out as well.

VPC or other solutions are going to take months and months.
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Old Mar 17, 2006, 07:09 AM   #20
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I think this is a little premature. I expect that within two weeks we'll have functional Mac drivers for the X1600 as well as everything else -- as to the fan issue - I'm sure that can be figured out as well.

VPC or other solutions are going to take months and months.
yeah someone from the open source community will write a driver where at the least you can have the fans on all the time which although might be a bit noisier means your mac doesnt melt. That'll do until some better solution comes along.
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Old Mar 17, 2006, 08:23 AM   #21
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That's what I was thinking - an open source solution that forces the fan to 'on' all the time. It's the quickest, dirtiest solution I can think of - no need for temperature/process monitoring. Just turn the fan on.

TM
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Old Mar 17, 2006, 08:33 AM   #22
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I wouldn't be so sure about this. The different ROM was needed of the endian issues and the like stemming from the PPC, with an Intel setup, there'd be no need for a Mac Rom Video card
I was just thinking about this part. If it really had a Mac ROM, we wouldn't even be able to get XP to work on it, no?
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Old Mar 17, 2006, 08:40 AM   #23
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Just a question about fans (as they are mentioned alot here), is there a way to force them to go on in Mac OS X. i can't hear them on my powerbook, and want the temp to go down. its probably on, and just really quiet. But if its not, i really want it on at an earlier temp (i never hear them).

now back to the xp topic

i don't think i will install it if i ever get a MBP or intel mac (hopefully soon). This is a problem that people MUST know about before installing. someone will be using it and not notice it get to 170/180 and then it will start to melt.

Let's hope someone gets the driver soon.
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Old Mar 17, 2006, 10:12 AM   #24
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I think the temperature control is a major issue. Wouldn't want to see a MBP cook. The site would be horrible.

Anyway, the video card has to have some sort of Mac optimization since the regular ATI PC drivers don't work. While you can use it with generic drivers, there is no harware acceleration and 3D effects that can be used. Someone will get it up and running eventually, although I don't know how well. Maybe different drivers being updated to unlock a certain feature at a time.

I was thinking about the new Intel PM's and since they will have PCI-E, one can probably have two video cards in it and have one be used with one OS and one with the other.
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Old Mar 17, 2006, 10:46 AM   #25
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Well, keep this in mind. They are running this hot, and the graphics card isn't even working yet. Imagine the additional heat that this is going to generate.
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