Mac Pro 3,1 w/Velocity Duo problems

oksnr · Apr 30, 2015

Hey all, I wanted to pick your brains on something I'm running into with my Mac Pro 3,1.

I have am running Yosemite on a 2008 Mac Pro. I have a Velocity duo card with 2 Samsung 850 Pro hard drives. I'm running them in RAID 0.

1. First of all, its not running nearly as fast as I expected.
2. I get a lag or hang up every time I wake up my computer.
3. Other hard drives in my mac pro seem to pause now, delay in accessing them, etc.

Generally it just feels sluggish compared to a single samsung pro 850 running on the Solo card.

Any thoughts or issues others had to overcome with this setup. I've searched around and it seems everyone has this setup working really well.

Note: I've attached a disk speed test screenshot. These test are ALL over the place. I never get consistent results, not sure if that matters - just a note.

The highest I ever got on write and read speeds is around 650MB/s.

Thanks for any advice.

bax2003 · Apr 30, 2015

First, I would try different PCIe slot.

oksnr · Apr 30, 2015

On the 2008 model, I only have two 2.0 PCIe slots. My only option would be to swap slots with my video card. I'm not opposed to that if it helps.

bax2003 said:
I would try different PCIe slot.

kwikdeth · Apr 30, 2015

the velocity duo card is a PCIe x1 card, and as such, you're going to have limited bandwidth. this speed is about what you can expect with an x1 card.

oksnr · Apr 30, 2015

I have the Apricorn Velocity Duo x2

I should have been more specific. I'm not so worried about the max speed, etc.

The main issue is the pause on wake and the general sluggishness compared to a much slower solo card.

kwikdeth said:
the velocity duo card is a PCIe x1 card, and as such, you're going to have limited bandwidth. this speed is about what you can expect with an x1 card.

Ph.D. · Apr 30, 2015

To clarify from the previous poster (vs. the OP): The Duo is an X2 card (two PCIe 2.0 lanes), not an X1 card. As such you ought to be seeing better results.

I have a very similar combination: A 3,1 with the Duo and two 850 Evos in RAID 0.

The Duo will always be limited to about 800 MB/s no matter what (probably a little less - high 700's). I get a very consistent 660-670 MB/s when it's in slot 1 or 2. That is similar to your "best" results.

You can go ahead and swap between slots 1 and 2, in case that helps (I doubt it, personally). Slots 3 and 4 get around 150 MB/s - don't even bother.

I have not seen much variability at all. It's always the same no matter what else is changed. Are your disks older or have they ever been even close to full? If so, TRIM may be the issue. As I understand things, this would affect writes but not reads. That's somewhat consistent with your attached image.

A delay on booting is due to the fact that the machine first looks at all "internal" disks before booting to an "external" PCIe drive. You won't be able to do anything about that, but my sense is that this is a minor issue if any. I haven't seen any special delay from a wake from sleep.

By the way, changing slots will cause the computer to ignore the Duo and actually boot from an internal drive, if any are bootable. You will then have to reselect the startup drive to be the Duo (it will be fine after that). This can cause some confusion until you are aware of it.

oksnr · Apr 30, 2015

Thanks for the information and feedback.

As I mentioned the weird thing to me is the randomness is results. I got 200 MB/s a few minutes ago. Then it will jump up and down.

ph.D, Do you have any issues with the computer waking up?

Thanks.

Ph.D. said:
To clarify from the previous poster (vs. the OP): The Duo is an X2 card (two PCIe 2.0 lanes), not an X1 card. As such you ought to be seeing better results.

I have a very similar combination: A 3,1 with the Duo and two 850 Evos in RAID 0.

The Duo will always be limited to about 800 MB/s no matter what (probably a little less - high 700's). I get a very consistent 660-670 MB/s when it's in slot 1 or 2. That is similar to your "best" results.

You can go ahead and swap between slots 1 and 2, in case that helps (I doubt it, personally). Slots 3 and 4 get around 150 MB/s - don't even bother.

I have not seen much variability at all. It's always the same no matter what else is changed. Are your disks older or have they ever been even close to full? If so, TRIM may be the issue. As I understand things, this would affect writes but not reads. That's somewhat consistent with your attached image.

A delay on booting is due to the fact that the machine first looks at all "internal" disks before booting to an "external" PCIe drive. You won't be able to do anything about that, but my sense is that this is a minor issue if any. I haven't seen any special delay from a wake from sleep.

By the way, changing slots will cause the computer to ignore the Duo and actually boot from an internal drive, if any are bootable. You will then have to reselect the startup drive to be the Duo (it will be fine after that). This can cause some confusion until you are aware of it.

Ph.D. · Apr 30, 2015

oksnr said:
ph.D, Do you have any issues with the computer waking up?

Thanks.

No, nothing at all along those lines.

The only discomforting thing that I have noticed is that it takes longer to open a folder with a very large number of small files than an exactly-equivalent folder on a set of older, slower, RAID 0-configured drives in the normal drive bays. Otherwise, it works very well and the speed is objectively better (if not subjectively by a wide margin). The future is definitely in other directions, though, such as direct PCIe drives and whatever follows that.

crjackson2134 · Apr 30, 2015

@oksnr,

Check your energy saver settings and make sure you don't have a ☑ in the box that says - put hard drives asleep when possible.

I had initial delays in finder until I unchecked that box.

It may have nothing to do with your issue, but it greatly improved my finder response. It's a good laptop setting but I don't see a need for this on a desktop.

oksnr · May 1, 2015

Thanks, I do have everything unchecked now and that may have fixed the lag or stutter when it wakes from sleep. Haven't give it much time yet. No difference on speed issues.

Thanks for the help.

crjackson2134 said:
@oksnr,

Check your energy saver settings and make sure you don't have a ☑ in the box that says - put hard drives asleep when possible.

I had initial delays in finder until I unchecked that box.

It may have nothing to do with your issue, but it greatly improved my finder response. It's a good laptop setting but I don't see a need for this on a desktop.

CanadaMaple · May 1, 2015

I myself am considering picking one of these up. I currently have an SSD in my Mac Pro HD Bay 1 via OWC AdaptaDrive

Not sure if I'm going to go for the dual drive or single drive.

The one interesting thing would be to see someone with the Sonnet version of its speed results?

-CM

oksnr · May 1, 2015

What card? Am I crazy?

Are there two Apricorn PCIe cards that hold dual ssd drives?

My packaging says one thing, my card says another. Not sure it matters but trying to eliminate problems with this card.

crjackson2134 · May 1, 2015

The Velocity Solo X2 supports 2 drives but only has a mounting caddy for 1. There is an SATA III data connector on the back of the card for the 2nd drive. You have to mount the 2nd drive and provide a power connection separately.

oksnr · May 1, 2015

I guess I'm asking what is the difference between

Solox2 Duo and the Velocity Duo x2

My packaging reads Velocity Duo x2 and my card that came in that package says Solo x2 Duo.

Is that right? Doesn't seem so.

crjackson2134 said:
The Velocity Solo X2 supports 2 drives but only has a mounting caddy for 1. There is an SATA III data connector on the back of the card for the 2nd drive. You have to mount the 2nd drive and provide a power connection separately.

crjackson2134 · May 1, 2015

oksnr said:
I guess I'm asking what is the difference between

Solox2 Duo and the Velocity Duo x2

My packaging reads Velocity Duo x2 and my card that came in that package says Solo x2 Duo.

Is that right? Doesn't seem so.

Well, it's the same thing. They probably hadn't settled on the exact marketing name when the PCB was produced. There actually isn't a Solo x2 Duo (officially speaking). I'm sure it was a name that was being considered, but then they realized the contradiction of terms, and the confusion it would cause (hence, your confusion).

There is a Velocity Solo x2
There is a Velocity Duo x2

They have different Marvell controllers. I'm guessing that the early production runs of the Duo were done with stock originally intended for the Solo x2 card. It's just silk screening that means nothing. The packaging is correct if you have a card that provides two mounting provisions for SSDs.

m4v3r1ck · May 2, 2015

As advised in the other thread seprate BM test both SSD's in the SATA2 bays to rule out SSD malfunctions! Then softraid RAID0 them again while in SATA2 bays and BM test that setup!

Cheers

flowrider · May 2, 2015

kwikdeth said:
the velocity duo card is a PCIe x1 card, and as such, you're going to have limited bandwidth. this speed is about what you can expect with an x1 card.

Actually it's a PCIe x2 card. You are incorrect!

oksnr said:
Are there two Apricorn PCIe cards that hold dual ssd drives?

My packaging says one thing, my card says another. Not sure it matters but trying to eliminate problems with this card.

I have two Duos. As far as the marking goes, I just checked mine, and it's the same as yours? Never noticed it before. I'm sure it's just a silk screening error.

I have mine in a 5,1 Mac Pro - Slots 2 and 3 - Not in a raid configuration. My boot drive is on the card in slot 3. The boot drive is an 840 Pro. Speed is attached.

Lou

Fulbert · Mar 4, 2022

Hello to All,
Can someone tell me if I can have a duo boot (Mojave / Windows 10) on my Mac Pro 5.1 with the Apricorn SoloX2 DUO SSD PCI card knowing that I will have BootROM EFI in 144.0.0.0.0.
thank you for your attention.

i forgot to say that today with high Sierra and bootcamp Windows 10 on Apricorn SoloX2 DUO everything works perfectly.

Mac Pro 3,1 w/Velocity Duo problems

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