Register FAQ / Rules Forum Spy Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   MacRumors Forums > Special Interests > Visual Media > Design and Graphics

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Apr 19, 2006, 08:42 PM   #1
Arcus
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: of my hand will get me slapped.
If someone was drawing a picture for me, what format would I tell him?

So suppose I was having a friend hand draw a picture, scan it into photoshop to touch up and thn have him send me the file. Lets also suppose I am going to take this file and print it out.

If the object was to get the image printed as best as can be (within reason) and I have no restrictions on file format:

1) What file format would I want him to send me? I was thinking .eps so that it can be scaled but that doenst seem to be working. I am getting jagged lines. Am I not understanding eps files? He sent me a jpg file as well but that doenst scale well either.

2) Is bigger better? Would I want him to draw the picture as big as possbile and then scale it down? If I wanted to print it on 8.5 x 11 would it be beter for him to draw it on 11 x17 , scan it in then send it to me like that and let me scale it down?

Sorry if this is a broad question.
__________________
SE30 | Bondi Blu iMac | iBook G3 700 - 384 Megs 40gig |5th gen iPod 30gig Video | 17" 2.0 CD2 iMac |20" 2.16 CD2 iMac |5gb 1st Gen iPhone |16gb 4th Gen iPhone
Arcus is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Apr 19, 2006, 08:54 PM   #2
ATD
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcus
So suppose I was having a friend hand draw a picture, scan it into photoshop to touch up and thn have him send me the file. Lets also suppose I am going to take this file and print it out.

If the object was to get the image printed as best as can be (within reason) and I have no restrictions on file format:

1) What file format would I want him to send me? I was thinking .eps so that it can be scaled but that doenst seem to be working. I am getting jagged lines. Am I not understanding eps files? He sent me a jpg file as well but that doenst scale well either.

2) Is bigger better? Would I want him to draw the picture as big as possbile and then scale it down? If I wanted to print it on 8.5 x 11 would it be beter for him to draw it on 11 x17 , scan it in then send it to me like that and let me scale it down?

Sorry if this is a broad question.


An EPS out of Photoshop and an ESP from Illustrator are 2 different things. All files in Photoshop will raster (pixels). If the drawing was done in Illustrator you could scale it cleanly, importing a scan into Illustrator will not work. Save the file as a tiff, do not save it as a jpeg at any point along the way.


As far as the size, it doesn't matter what size the drawing is. When you scan it, scan it at a high resolution. For things going to a printing press it's 300ppi at the finished size.





Last edited by ATD; Apr 19, 2006 at 08:59 PM.
ATD is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Apr 19, 2006, 09:05 PM   #3
aricher
macrumors 68020
 
aricher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Chi-il
If it's line art you could always use Illustrator CS2's Live Trace feature and convert it to vector paths. This would allow full scaleability. Even if it's a color drawing Live Trace would work. What size do you want to print it at?
aricher is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Apr 19, 2006, 10:23 PM   #4
gekko513
macrumors 601
 
gekko513's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
.png uses lossless compression. The image file will have the same quality as the scan unless the sender modifies the image before saving as .png of course.
gekko513 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Apr 19, 2006, 10:34 PM   #5
Lebowski
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATD
An EPS out of Photoshop and an ESP from Illustrator are 2 different things. All files in Photoshop will raster (pixels). If the drawing was done in Illustrator you could scale it cleanly, importing a scan into Illustrator will not work. Save the file as a tiff, do not save it as a jpeg at any point along the way.


As far as the size, it doesn't matter what size the drawing is. When you scan it, scan it at a high resolution. For things going to a printing press it's 300ppi at the finished size.



what do you mean importing a scan into illustrator will not work?

i do it all the time


file>place

i recreate logos and artwork into vector files all the time, and i do it off a scan placed into illustrator and then drawn over with pen tool.
Lebowski is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Apr 19, 2006, 11:12 PM   #6
ATD
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebowski
what do you mean importing a scan into illustrator will not work?

i do it all the time


file>place

i recreate logos and artwork into vector files all the time, and i do it off a scan placed into illustrator and then drawn over with pen tool.

No, I mean if you import a scan into Illustrator and save it as an EPS it will still be raster, not vector. I have clients who import jpegs into Illustrator and try to pass them off as Vector Illustrator EPS files.



Last edited by ATD; Apr 20, 2006 at 12:05 AM.
ATD is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Apr 20, 2006, 01:29 PM   #7
Arcus
Thread Starter
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: of my hand will get me slapped.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aricher
If it's line art you could always use Illustrator CS2's Live Trace feature and convert it to vector paths. This would allow full scaleability. Even if it's a color drawing Live Trace would work. What size do you want to print it at?

Great info guys!! Thanks much.

The final print size will be 6" x 6" or 8.5" x 11". Not sure yet.
__________________
SE30 | Bondi Blu iMac | iBook G3 700 - 384 Megs 40gig |5th gen iPod 30gig Video | 17" 2.0 CD2 iMac |20" 2.16 CD2 iMac |5gb 1st Gen iPhone |16gb 4th Gen iPhone
Arcus is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Apr 20, 2006, 02:34 PM   #8
freeny
macrumors 68020
 
freeny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Location: Location:
If the image is a bitmap (pixels) then send in .tif or .targa format. these are uncompressed and have the highest quality. The downside to these files is that they are bulky and may not be easily emailed.

A bitmap will always be a bitmap no matter what format you export as and will have jaggies when enlarged. You can do a "live trace" as someone suggested before, but that also takes a little know how.

When printing the bitmap be sure the file is at least 150dpi/ppi. if you want photo quality you will need an image of at least 300dpi/ppi. 600dpi/ppi+ is full photo quality. Some printers will only go up to 300dpi/ppi so going any larger is pointless (check your manual).

If it is vector (.eps or .ai) then you will be able to enlage it to any size you want and the files are small. Working with bezier curves is somewhat of an art so be sure you are versed in them or youll end up over your head.

It all really comes down to what it is you are actually trying to accomplish. What effect you are trying to create.

Last edited by freeny; Apr 20, 2006 at 02:49 PM.
freeny is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Apr 25, 2006, 07:10 AM   #9
Arcus
Thread Starter
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: of my hand will get me slapped.
Ok, just getting back to this.

So it looks like my assumption is correct? When drawing a picture in a rasterized format make sure it is the size that we intend to print or bigger. Dont go nuts just make sure it is close because any scaling up will cause the jaggies. Correct?
__________________
SE30 | Bondi Blu iMac | iBook G3 700 - 384 Megs 40gig |5th gen iPod 30gig Video | 17" 2.0 CD2 iMac |20" 2.16 CD2 iMac |5gb 1st Gen iPhone |16gb 4th Gen iPhone
Arcus is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Apr 25, 2006, 08:26 AM   #10
aricher
macrumors 68020
 
aricher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Chi-il
You are correct. Try to create the art at 100% of final size. If smaller scan at a higher resolution to avoid jaggies when scaling up. It all depends on the effect you want. Vector art will always be smoother but often lacks the softer edges of a raster image.

If you want to blow a small drawing up to massive size you could always shoot a 2 1/4", 4x5 or 8x10 slide of it and then have the film scanned at a high resolution.
aricher is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Apr 25, 2006, 08:28 AM   #11
rick6502
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Correct

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcus
Ok, just getting back to this.

So it looks like my assumption is correct? When drawing a picture in a rasterized format make sure it is the size that we intend to print or bigger. Dont go nuts just make sure it is close because any scaling up will cause the jaggies. Correct?
I going with a "Yes" here.
To summarize:
Raster format - Fixed dot size. If you enlarge the picture, the dots just get farther apart and you get pixelization. Conversely, if you shrink it the dots get closer together and the quality might improve. Avoid both of these. Decided what size you want in the paint program of choice.
Vector format - Mathematical representation of picture. If you enlarge the picture is will essentially stay the same, but you may notice errors in the drawing. If you shrink it, your output device may not be able to create all of the details. It's easy to change this into raster. It's not easy to come back with the data intact.
What's bad is that some format's like EPS, WMF, and PICT files can be both in the same file. It used to be those were the only one's you really had to worry about, but Adobe is pushing convergence. So PSD docs can now contain Vector info. (As well as PDF, AI)
Use TIFF for the raster with LZW compression and the files won't be too bad.
rick6502 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Apr 26, 2006, 03:37 PM   #12
Arcus
Thread Starter
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: of my hand will get me slapped.
Awsome info guys!!!! Thanks a bunch!
__________________
SE30 | Bondi Blu iMac | iBook G3 700 - 384 Megs 40gig |5th gen iPod 30gig Video | 17" 2.0 CD2 iMac |20" 2.16 CD2 iMac |5gb 1st Gen iPhone |16gb 4th Gen iPhone
Arcus is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Apr 26, 2006, 09:44 PM   #13
zarathustra
macrumors 6502a
 
zarathustra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Quote:
Originally Posted by rick6502
What's bad is that some format's like EPS, WMF, and PICT files can be both in the same file. It used to be those were the only one's you really had to worry about, but Adobe is pushing convergence. So PSD docs can now contain Vector info. (As well as PDF, AI)
Use TIFF for the raster with LZW compression and the files won't be too bad.
Not to beat a dead horse, but...

EPS stands for Encapsulated Post Script (WMF is similar, but RGB only). Technically a Photoshop "Raster" EPS still contains vector data - the crop area and probably a mask on top of the "Encapsulated" raster image. It also tells the RIP device the color space, profile (if any), print size, bleeds, etc.

So Adobe is not pushing convergence, as much as they are giving their PSD format the same capabilities (or similar) that EPS, AI has had for decades and PDf had from the get-go.

So harkening back to High School projects: EPS, AI, PDF, etc. are like a posterboard that are a certain size (WxH) to which you can "glue" Raster images or line art and arrange them. Bitmap files on the other hand are like a photograph that you glue to that posterboard.

Just wanted to be a nerdweenie.
zarathustra is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old May 1, 2006, 07:07 PM   #14
daxx
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: May 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcus
So suppose I was having a friend hand draw a picture, scan it into photoshop to touch up and thn have him send me the file. Lets also suppose I am going to take this file and print it out.

If the object was to get the image printed as best as can be (within reason) and I have no restrictions on file format:

1) What file format would I want him to send me? I was thinking .eps so that it can be scaled but that doenst seem to be working. I am getting jagged lines. Am I not understanding eps files? He sent me a jpg file as well but that doenst scale well either.

2) Is bigger better? Would I want him to draw the picture as big as possbile and then scale it down? If I wanted to print it on 8.5 x 11 would it be beter for him to draw it on 11 x17 , scan it in then send it to me like that and let me scale it down?

Sorry if this is a broad question.

JPG. You can use the format's compression to make sure it's emailable. Hirez images that are purchased off the web are always saved as rgb jpgs... and that's why. Dont even need to scale it down.
daxx is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old May 1, 2006, 10:24 PM   #15
rick6502
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by zarathustra
Not to beat a dead horse, but...

EPS stands for Encapsulated Post Script (WMF is similar, but RGB only). Technically a Photoshop "Raster" EPS still contains vector data - the crop area and probably a mask on top of the "Encapsulated" raster image. It also tells the RIP device the color space, profile (if any), print size, bleeds, etc.

So Adobe is not pushing convergence, as much as they are giving their PSD format the same capabilities (or similar) that EPS, AI has had for decades and PDf had from the get-go.

So harkening back to High School projects: EPS, AI, PDF, etc. are like a posterboard that are a certain size (WxH) to which you can "glue" Raster images or line art and arrange them. Bitmap files on the other hand are like a photograph that you glue to that posterboard.

Just wanted to be a nerdweenie.
Yes, the EPS does contain vector data, in that the PostScript Encapsulates the Raster Data. Still a PhotoShop EPS with raster data looks like poo when scaled.
rick6502 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2006, 11:55 PM   #16
gman71882
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Houston, Tx
Send a message via AIM to gman71882
Tiff File format is uncompressed Raster images... this will give you the Best Quality with no compression.
__________________

15" TiBook 1GHZ | 1GB RAM | Superdrive | 80GB HD
gman71882 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old May 4, 2006, 01:32 AM   #17
Blue Velvet
Moderator emeritus
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by gman71882
Tiff File format is uncompressed Raster images... this will give you the Best Quality with no compression.
Except if you use LZW compression. Lossless.
Blue Velvet is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old May 4, 2006, 01:40 AM   #18
Heb1228
macrumors 68020
 
Heb1228's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Send a message via AIM to Heb1228
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeny
The downside to these files is that they are bulky and may not be easily emailed.
www.yousendit.com is your friend here. You can email files up to 100MB for free. UL and DL speeds are fast. I use it all the time.
__________________
17" MPB, 2.8
My Sites: Me, Mom's Art, Dad's Co., Church
Heb1228 is offline   0 Reply With Quote

Reply
MacRumors Forums > Special Interests > Visual Media > Design and Graphics

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Footage Given was a 4x3 picture in a 16x9 format fartheststar Digital Video 5 Nov 3, 2010 09:02 PM
If someone tried stealing your iPhone at knifepoint, what would you do? thermal Wasteland 154 Jul 4, 2010 01:02 PM
Looking for someone to draw some script for me Patmian212 Design and Graphics 5 Jun 7, 2006 06:34 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:46 PM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC