Softened French DRM Law Passes Senate

[MacRumors]

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Macworld.co.uk reports that the French Senate has passed a modified version of its controversial copyright bill.

The original law, which was later gutted in committee required that Apple and other online music stores to have their songs be interoperable with all portable media players in France. The version passed today provides a loophole for Apple to keep their songs protected, but still retained some of its principle interoperability language.

Senators weakened the bill's blanket requirement that vendors give details of their DRM technology to those wishing to develop interoperable systems. Instead, they voted to create a new regulatory authority responsible for mediating requests for such details.

The authority will have the power to order companies to share details of their DRM, but companies will be able to refuse as long as their DRM systems only limit usage of digital music or movies in a way approved by the author or copyright holder.

Apple originally called the law "state-sponsored piracy." Apple has not yet officially responded to the latest text of the law.

[4God]

They should just close the French iTMS.

[irmongoose]

This is, in the end, better off for French consumers. Apple would otherwise have simply backed off from France.

But I wonder... aren't all forms of DRM approved by copyright holders? Isn't that the point of DRM, to protect the author's content?

Who would this law apply to, then?



irmongoose

[jaxstate]

Damn it, just liscense fairplay already..sheesh.

[garrettcumber]

i think that this is all a bunch of crap. how do we find ourselves (u.s. co's) under foreign jurisdiction? maybe im not getting this, but it appears that the damn french are always perverting good ideas and plans. on top of that, the windows users complaining about how they want unlimited access to "their music", wake up get an iPod a Mac and realize that you never "own" music.

[j26]

Originally Posted by garrettcumber

i think that this is all a bunch of crap. how do we find ourselves (u.s. co's) under foreign jurisdiction? maybe im not getting this, but it appears that the damn french are always perverting good ideas and plans. on top of that, the windows users complaining about how they want unlimited access to "their music", wake up get an iPod a Mac and realize that you never "own" music.

To paraphrase "When in Rome, do as the Romans"

When you are trading in another country you respect their laws.

If you don't want to respect other countries, don't trade with them. People need to get away from the idea that the world is made for the utility of the US.

</rant>

I don't agree with what the law was trying to do, but you have to admit that there is a danger that a "foreign" company (to the French at least) will wind up in a momopoly situation. that's not a desirable outcome. The proposed law was an attempt to redress the balance, but was seriously flawed imo, as it pushed the balance too far, and misses a crucial point - iPod and iTunes are really one integrated product.

[drlunanerd]

Typically French.

A complete waste of time and taxpayers money.

Piss off Chirac

[Butler Trumpet]

If this continues like this, and the loophole is fixed, it wouldnt surprise me at all to see apple drop the french iTMS.

One of apples biggest points about the iTMS is that you can only play that music on an iPod, or your computer, and that you cant use your iPod with other programs.... so I dont think apple would be to happy to just let the french government tell them how to run their business.

Goodbye French iTMS

[whocares]

Originally Posted by garrettcumber

i think that this is all a bunch of crap. how do we find ourselves (u.s. co's) under foreign jurisdiction? maybe im not getting this, but it appears that the damn french are always perverting good ideas and plans. on top of that, the windows users complaining about how they want unlimited access to "their music", wake up get an iPod a Mac and realize that you never "own" music.

Originally Posted by drlunanerd

Typically French.

A complete waste of time and taxpayers money.

Piss off Chirac

I'm not going to drag this thread into the Political forums, but:

If you do not live in France and/or pay tax there, you can't insult the French way of doing things because:

• You don't live or pay tax there;
• It's none of your goddamn business what they do in their own country;
• They don't give a f*** about what you think.

And before you say something, point 2 applies even if you're a non-French company. If you want to do business in France, abide by their laws. If not, piss off.

Don't get me wrong, you're more than free to express your opinion on the matter (e.g. "I disagree because..."). Just don't bloody tell the French (or any other country) that they're stupid/dicks/etc. because of the way they do stuff.

I personnaly view it as a good thing that Apple licenses its DRM system.

[Lollypop]

I kinda like what this law was remade into. Everyone is protected this way, if the consumers complain they have a legal forum to take their complaints to, the company is protected because they are not forced to open up anything unless the consumer and the owner of the copyright agrees that it isnt a fair limit on the usage. Artists are protected because they wont have their music pirated and have a bit of say on how their work can be used.

I dont see a reason why if a group of consumers and artists disagree with Apples DRM that apple cant simply cut out the artist from the store, the artist will loose income because they dont accept a mechanism set out to protect them?!? Fairplay is a decent DRM system, we all agree, the amount of music and sales on and by the iTMS prove that, why are people worried?

[shawnce]

Originally Posted by Lollypop

I kinda like what this law was remade into. Everyone is protected this way, ...

Well not really. This just made Apple's life much harder when it comes to negotiating distribution rights with record labels and/or individual artists and fulfilling those contracts.

It also could make the end users life difficult / confusing since some songs they purchase may support being switched among DRM systems while others aren't, etc.

Really this isn't a very good situation for customers or distributors...

IMHO this law should not have done anything in regards to DRM at all but if they feel they must it IMHO should have ONLY stated that a service to convert between DRM schemes (with matching end user rights) should be made available to customers (with no requirement for it to be free).

Again no one is forcing anyone to buy an iPod and/or songs from iTMS, folks have a right and the ability to not buy into a product/service if they feel it doesn't serve their needs.

[LordJohnWhorfin]

It seems very disingenuous of the French government to target Apple's fairly recent alleged "monopoly" when they've been so reluctant to do anything about Microsoft's which is several orders of magnitude larger and has been around for about 20 years now.

Other than that, one gets the distinct impression that the legislators are dealing with an issue they have absolutely no understanding of, simply reacting to the push of powerful lobbies. That doesn't seem to be a uniquely French problem...

[Lollypop]

Originally Posted by shawnce

Well not really. This just made Apple's life much harder when it comes to negotiating distribution rights with record labels and/or individual artists and fulfilling those contracts.

Do you really think so? The iTMS DRM is a very nice DRM system, if a artist or label in France doesnt like it they can go somwhere else, Apple shouldnt bow down to this legislation, if the french labels and artists dont like fairplay then the french as a nation can lose the iTMS and they wont miss it, im normally negative, but I dont see why Apple should worry, if its meant to be the iTMS will naturally close in france and continue to do business elsewhere and the french market will suffer, if it stays open it just proves that the law is only there as a precaution.

[morespce54]

Originally Posted by 4God

They should just close the French iTMS.

...and just say NO to 70 M potential custommers
... mmmm don't think so...

[dr_lha]

Originally Posted by whocares

I'm not going to drag this thread into the Political forums, but:

If you do not live in France and/or pay tax there, you can't insult the French way of doing things because:

• You don't live or pay tax there;
• It's none of your goddamn business what they do in their own country;
• They don't give a f*** about what you think.

And before you say something, point 2 applies even if you're a non-French company. If you want to do business in France, abide by their laws. If not, piss off.

Don't get me wrong, you're more than free to express your opinion on the matter (e.g. "I disagree because..."). Just don't bloody tell the French (or any other country) that they're stupid/dicks/etc. because of the way they do stuff.

Well said that man!

I personnaly view it as a good thing that Apple licenses its DRM system.

Good for consumers, bad for Apple.

[ClimbingTheLog]

Originally Posted by whocares

Don't get me wrong, you're more than free to express your opinion on the matter (e.g. "I disagree because..."). Just don't bloody tell the French (or any other country) that they're stupid/dicks/etc. because of the way they do stuff.

I'll be sure not to tell you you're stupid next time you're poking a stick in your eye then, lest I risk offending you.

Look, the French do some things really well (nuclear power->low CO2 emissions, low cost power) and some things really poorly (employment regulations -> high unemployment rate, immigration policy -> race riots). Oh, and the bread is fantastic. So, skip the political correctness and embrace reality and stop trying to censor free expression. Facts are much more persuasive.

I was just recalling when the iTMS hit the streets and Apple positioned FairPlay as a necessary evil, only done to appease the RIAA, and only temporary until they came around.

I'm glad to see I can now let go of that tenuous hope and admit that Apple loves DRM.

[cwtnospam]

Originally Posted by ClimbingTheLog

Look, the French do some things really well (nuclear power->low CO2 emissions, low cost power)...

Nuclear power low cost??? Not a chance. The waste disposal costs alone will be more than any alternative energy's total cost, unless you don't mind leaving waste disposal costs to your children, your grand children, your great grand children, your great great grand children, and so on for the next 15,000 years.

[whocares]

Originally Posted by ClimbingTheLog

I'll be sure not to tell you you're stupid next time you're poking a stick in your eye then, lest I risk offending you.

Look, the French do some things really well (nuclear power->low CO2 emissions, low cost power) and some things really poorly (employment regulations -> high unemployment rate, immigration policy -> race riots). Oh, and the bread is fantastic. So, skip the political correctness and embrace reality and stop trying to censor free expression. Facts are much more persuasive.

And you spent how long in France? Me, I spent 20 years there...

Free expression does not include calling people stupid based on what they do in their own country.

And race riots? What race riots? When the f*** did France abolish slavery anyway? Well before many countries. Learn your facts.

Ban me please.

[AlmostThere]

How on earth is this law softened?!?

The law has been hardened, further depriving consumers of established legal rights.

[ClimbingTheLog]

Originally Posted by cwtnospam

Nuclear power low cost??? Not a chance. The waste disposal costs alone will be more than any alternative energy's total cost, unless you don't mind leaving waste disposal costs to your children, your grand children, your great grand children, your great great grand children, and so on for the next 15,000 years.

You massively underestimate the human race. We'll have very reliable off-world capability within a couple hundred years and waste reprocessing will be a well-known process. Besides, in another 60 years fission will go away leaving fusion with 37-year radio-copper as the waste legacy. We'll have a total of a hundred years' worth of fission-created waste to deal with as a race.

And, umm, we'll run those plant with macs.

Originally Posted by whocares

Free expression does not include calling people stupid based on what they do in their own country.

Of course it does. Other than yelling "Fire" in a crowded theatre a free person can say anything he wants. "I hate what you say but would die fighting for your right to say it". At least that's what we call free speech in the USA. Those who would oppress "offensive speech" are what we call fascists. Be careful with that shoe.

Originally Posted by whocares

And race riots? What race riots?

You may have missed it but parts Paris burned for a couple weeks this past autumn when a muslim teen was shot by police. Curfews were declared, emergency powers acts were invoked, warrantless searches were conducted, public meetings were banned, the government invoked censor power over the media, and police did battle with rioting muslim youth.

Originally Posted by whocares

When the f*** did France abolish slavery anyway? Well before many countries. Learn your facts.

It was declared illegal in 1848, and the French West Indies continued the use of slaves into the 1870's. What was your point exactly? Some feint at moral superiority of ancestors?

[dr_lha]

Originally Posted by whocares

And race riots? What race riots?

How could you have missed this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4413964.stm

As the rioters where majority North African Muslims, I think its fair to call it a "race riot", although I assume your feigned ignorance of these events is due to you not wanting to define them as "race riots" but "religious riots"?

[generik]

Originally Posted by cwtnospam

Nuclear power low cost??? Not a chance. The waste disposal costs alone will be more than any alternative energy's total cost, unless you don't mind leaving waste disposal costs to your children, your grand children, your great grand children, your great great grand children, and so on for the next 15,000 years.

Maybe we can just ship it to Mars

[Highland]

garrettcumber, drlunanerd etc... you guys really need to actually think a little more before you speak.

DRM is NOT good for consumers.
DRM is NOT good for artists.
DRM is NOT good for society.
And... DRM is probably NOT good for business.

Read this thread please:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=197781

[SPUY767]

I like how this article says that "The misic industry is already wanting compatibility among formats. . ." The only reason that the music industry wants interoberability is so that they might be able to get some of the other stores, who would be more than willing to slip it in the customer's pooper for a buck or so more a song, to sell music that can be played on the iPod. Only problem there is that apple's already signed a contract extension at 99c, so the RI is basically still at the mercy of iTunes, cause no one is going to pay more for music from somewhere else, when they can get it from iTunes more easily, and potentially cheaper.

Originally Posted by morespce54

...and just say NO to 70 M potential custommers
... mmmm don't think so...

Actually, the french population according to the most recent estimates is 60M. take out the group of people most likely to buy songs, i.e. those over the age of 13 and under the age of 55, and you end up with a number more like 30-35M.

Originally Posted by Lollypop

Do you really think so? The iTMS DRM is a very nice DRM system, if a artist or label in France doesnt like it they can go somwhere else, Apple shouldnt bow down to this legislation, if the french labels and artists dont like fairplay then the french as a nation can lose the iTMS and they wont miss it, im normally negative, but I dont see why Apple should worry, if its meant to be the iTMS will naturally close in france and continue to do business elsewhere and the french market will suffer, if it stays open it just proves that the law is only there as a precaution.

Amen. This law is damn near socialistic. It is taking a company with a rightfully earned majority share of a market and punishing it for being smart, playing its cards right, and treating its customers with respect.

[jasonbogen]

If you live in America, point 4 trumps the other 3. We can express our opinions including what we think of the French, their laws, their president, their odor etc. Anyone who thinks they can change French policy by expressing their opinion on a message board is a moron, but we can say whatever the hell we want...and by the way, we don't give a f*** if the French give a f*** what we think.

Originally Posted by whocares

I'm not going to drag this thread into the Political forums, but:

If you do not live in France and/or pay tax there, you can't insult the French way of doing things because:

• You don't live or pay tax there;
• It's none of your goddamn business what they do in their own country;
• They don't give a f*** about what you think.

And before you say something, point 2 applies even if you're a non-French company. If you want to do business in France, abide by their laws. If not, piss off.

Don't get me wrong, you're more than free to express your opinion on the matter (e.g. "I disagree because..."). Just don't bloody tell the French (or any other country) that they're stupid/dicks/etc. because of the way they do stuff.

I personnaly view it as a good thing that Apple licenses its DRM system.