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Update: Apple and the PowerPC 970... Next Year?

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This ZDNet article recaps IBM's press release on the upcoming PowerPC 970 (covered here).

The 970 processor is widely expected to make its way into Macs... and ZDNet's sources agree, but perhaps not until next year:

Sources familiar with IBM and Apple's plans said that Apple will be a customer for the PowerPC 970 next year, but Apple has declined to comment.
Click to expand...

MacRumors has heard that upper-level Apple Executives are worried about the number of PowerPC 970 rumors circulating -- with concerns about current PowerMac sales in the light of these rumors.

Per MacRumors sources, there have been conflicting rumors about the timing of the 970... but due to the unpredictable nature of product development, it's possible that the release date may simply not yet be decided.<P>

Update: ZDNet has the same quote regarding "next year" in an article from October 2002.
 
I think that apple should just come around and confirm whether the 970 is going to be used or not... If their sales are already being hurt due to rumors and assumptions, why don't they just confirm or deny what we are all so curious about.

I think then that those who need a good computer now will buy one, as the new powermacs have life in them left due to the dual config and everything, and then those who would want to wait for the 970 (most, probably) will be satisfied. I think it's about time to put the G4 powermac to rest, we've had it for far too long, and apple should just announce the 970 despite the possible slowing sales of the G4s.

The sales have gradually slowed whether there has been the anticipation of a new product or not. The the G4 powermac is becoming a less competitive product, simple as that. Don't get me wrong, I own a MDD and love it, but it's time to put the G4 in the consumer level permanently and the 970 (or other possible replacement) in the Pro level.
 
MacRumors has heard that upper-level Apple Executives are worried about the number of PowerPC 970 rumors circulating -- with concerns about current PowerMac sales in the light of these rumors.
Click to expand...

PowerMac sales suck because the PowerMac sucks. That is why the rumors are so strong. We (Apple's target market) realize the need for a real update, not some speed-bump to the anemic G4.
 
Yup, I'll continue to stand my ground on this... we'll see PPC970 no sooner than Jan. 2004. 2003 is the year of the "laptop", after all...
 
ZDNet strikes again!

Their story from October which recapped the MPF reports said:

"Sources familiar with IBM and Apple's plans said that Apple will be a customer for the PowerPC 970 next year."

Their story from this month which recaps the Blade server rumors says...

"Sources familiar with IBM and Apple's plans said that Apple will be a customer for the PowerPC 970 next year."

This is cut-and-paste gerbilism, er, journalism. Move along, folks.
 
hmm if apple confirmed that they would use the 970 and on x date even less people would buy the curent pmac or only the ew who need it. In fact I think that if apple doesn't have plan to use it this year they shoudl make ap ress release to that effect fro those consumers that are one the edge.
 
To be honest, I'm glad I bought my new Dual 1.25 GHz two weeks ago....
The waiting for the PPC 970 seems endless. Last X-mas I promised myself to wait until the 970 came out. But MWSF got me a bit nervous. I didn't want to wait another whole year before replacing my 3 year old G4 400.
What bothers me furthermore, is that the first Mac ever to see (hopefully, IT IS STILL NOT CONFIRMED) the 970 could be a new Xsere, or WorkStation PowerMac (>= $ 4000)... you know what I mean.
Still the sooner the better!
 
ah, please hope it isn't so. And if its all a ploy to boost sales of the current crop of machines, fine. It won't make me go out and buy a new one, I'm waiting for the next generation, period.

Regardless, it'll mean the wait will probably be longer. 🙁


D
 
Originally posted by Performfreak
I think that apple should just come around and confirm whether the 970 is going to be used or not... If their sales are already being hurt due to rumors and assumptions, why don't they just confirm or deny what we are all so curious about.

I think then that those who need a good computer now will buy one, as the new powermacs have life in them left due to the dual config and everything, and then those who would want to wait for the 970 (most, probably) will be satisfied. I think it's about time to put the G4 powermac to rest, we've had it for far too long, and apple should just announce the 970 despite the possible slowing sales of the G4s.

The sales have gradually slowed whether there has been the anticipation of a new product or not. The the G4 powermac is becoming a less competitive product, simple as that. Don't get me wrong, I own a MDD and love it, but it's time to put the G4 in the consumer level permanently and the 970 (or other possible replacement) in the Pro level.
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more. PowerMac sales have been fallen by more than half since 2000. While the poor economy is partly to blame, the chasm in Mac-PC performance is discouraging potential customers to shell out big bucks for a slower machine. At this point, Apple should just let everyone know what they plan to do: if they're coming out with the 970 next year, fine. Those who really want a PowerMac now will buy it, while those who want to wait will get an idea of how long they need to wait.
 
I have no doubt in my mind we'll see it this year, Apple can't afford to wait any longer - and they know that. I'm sure that they have Mac OS X 64-biterized and ready to run on these things, or are at least at the final development stages of porting it. Apple's probably ready, but they can't do much until IBM has the chip finished and ready to be mass produced.
 
Shame on you Arn! hehe

Now everyone is gonna freak. hehe...

I'm thinking 2nd half of this year.

Hoping for ship dates in August.
 
Yes, well I like to add to Apple's uncomfortability by sending them feedback messages telling them how much money I have saved up just waiting for a new 970-based machine. I can FINALLY afford a top of the line PowerMac (though I have no business need for one) but they're just not getting my money until I like the hardware. I love my iBook and it will carry me through the months until a [REAL] new system appears.
 
If apple thinks forcing g4s on more people is going to increase sales they are dead wrong. Even now it takes two g4's just to get on the same page as 1 p4 and they still come up short! The longer they wait the longer they screw themselves. Then again maybe they have bought a zillion g4s from slow butt motorola and now have to do something with them. Maybe they should hire the macrumors crowd to plan their cpu strategy?
 
While 64 bit processors will be faster than the current crop of G4s, people are deceiving themselves if they think the current crop of G4s is always slower than Pentium IVs.

http://forgetcomputers.com/~jdroz/09.html

The above link shows that in the millions of theoretical floating point calculations a second (MTOPS) the G4 has the Pentium beat 38:8. Even the iMac/eMac are faster than the fastest Pentium or AMD. So why are we seeing tests from Adobe Premier beating the G4? Software optimization. Premier's Altivec coding is not as good as it could be.

http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2002/04/05/altivec.html

shows how to code it properly. When it comes to RC5 and Genentech Blast, the G4s have the Pentium beat 5:1.

So it all comes down to people not developing altivec code into their software. Oh and if Mac OS X appears to be slow for you, you may not have been doing enough to keep it optimized:

http://www.macmaps.com/Macosxspeed.html explains how to do that.

If you have been waiting for a fast enough G4 for a long time, you'll be surprised how fast the current crop of G4s are. And by buying it now, you are in fact saving yourself time in the gain of performance you get from a new machine today. How can you save yourself time waiting for a new machine? All you are doing is posting here your complaints that the G4 is not fast enough. If you just got a G4 and worked with it, you'd get more work done quicker! Performance isn't all processor speed. Performance is not procrastinating and getting what you need done today!
 
Great gopher,5% of the software makers know how to code for the g4, bottom line is the other 95% are getting their butt kicked by p4. when almost every app is getting blasted by a cheaper machine its time for apple to do something. Its time for the 970 now not next year sometime, almost sounds like motorola and their upgrade path. Its gotten so bad apple cant even compare that one gauzeen blurr they use to use. Apple still has the best software,best style, but slowest hardware. Go look at any game or photo app and the truth is the g4 is getting smoked and thats why apple resorted to two of these cpus to compare with one intel.DROP I DONT CARE MOTOROLA AND DO IT NOW!😱
 
It doesn't have to be that way. If people started writing their favorite software developer for better Altivec coding with:

http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2002/04/05/altivec.html

and showed them it really is worth it considering how good the floating point performance is:

http://forgetcomputers.com/~jdroz/09.html

People would buy their software more often. Now that iMac, eMac, Powerbook, and PowerMac are all G4 machines, the only thing that's stopping software developers from developing better Altivec coded software is the demand from users. If you haven't demanded it, you should. You are more likely to get an optimized piece of software than a PowerPC 970. By the way, since the PowerPC 970 derives some of its strength from Altivec coding, once again, we are going to see that unless developers develop for Altivec, the true strengths of the PowerPC won't be realized. The sooner you start writing your favorite developer to optimize their code, the better for all of us. It starts with user demand. With none, you don't find better software.
 
Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
Maybe they should hire the macrumors crowd to plan their cpu strategy?
Click to expand...

I hope they wouldn't hire the Macrumors crowd for anything else. They'd go bankrupt with supplies of millions of video iPods and other difficult-to-market products...
 
We are getting to the point where Apple are the number one software publisher for OS X. I think that Apple uses the Altivec part of the G4 to good effect and the applications that are iLife have no equals in the other operating systems. Personally I am not affected by this perceived performance gap everyone keeps posting about.

I read this week that Motorola have the next generation G4 ready and that would be the safest bet to make for Apple hardware this year. I am not sure about this one but unlike the current G4s, this one can work in quad configurations. Just don't quote me on that.

It seems like the 970 has gotten a speed bump to 2.5 GHz without it being released yet! I have high hopes for this processor but it is next-gen hardware that will take time to come to market. 2004 is a good prediction but do not be surprised if it is the 2nd half of that year when Apple releases such computers.
 
If this is true, then apple is in big trouble. By next year they should br considering weather or not to have their high end systems running the power 5 instead of the 970 running in their summer line up. At that point the 970 should be in the ibooks, and imacs. They should not be thinking of introducing the 970 at that point. Way too late. Of course that is mostly wishful thinking, as apples new way is "let's sell them old crap at a high price, and prtend speed doesn't matter." They have got to get ship shape real soon. We're getting tired of their games. The G4 was amazing when it came out, but that was so long ago. Moto has caused a lot of problems for apple, and those who defend/support them. Apple has to get with someone who can launch them far beyond the x86 landscape. Real soon.
 
Originally posted by Freg3000
I'd rather believe the Page 2 rumor that says it'll be available in July. 🙁
Click to expand...

They're called Page2Rumors for a reason.

I am another one of those that all along have said we will not see completely new processor (i.e. PPC970) until MacWorld in SanFrancisco '04 at the earliest.

My reasoning is made up of a bunch of factors but the simplest is the fact that computer designs take any where from 8months to a year and a half for completion. Even if Apple had a PPC970 for test in December it would be October at the very earliest before they would have production of the finished computer.
 
Please dont get me wrong the g4 has been good ,but its increase in performance path has been horrible. The many people with recent powermacs say the past2-3 years have no real reason to upgrade since motorola has not gone anywhere. This is great for me and my machine but bad business for apple. Base powermac is a 1 giger and 133 bus. Well heck if i need the small bump again from motorola i can just choose a powerlogix,sonnet upgrade and again apple looses sales because they have not gone anywhere. even my 2 yr old 133 bus is current when you look at the base powermac though architecture has changed slightly. If Apple is to increase market share then they have to come out with a machine they says to me and everyone else that this is a must buy performance screamer. A 970 based Powermac could do this. Also the people that say all this engineering has to be done are wrong. They have been using the same case for years with minor revisions and considering that the current windtunnels are cooling 2 cpus it would be easy to stick in the 970 since it will be cooler and use less power then 2 G4s. Everything points to this chip now the question is when? If apple waits till next year then powermac sales will continue the decline. If apple breaks out the 970 this year then the sales are going to increase. Am I wrong here?
 
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