970 at WWDC?

MacRumors · 04:31 AM

MacBidouille posts rumors that the PowerPC 970 will be presented at Apple's WWDC in May 2003.

According to the rumor, Peter Sandon of IBM will be presenting the chip at WWDC with certain ADC developers will be able to see a demonstration of a prototype 970 Macintosh.

Development tools are being finalized and there is rumored to be a beta of a 64-bit Mac OS X.

Macbidouille also claims that while the 2.5GHz 970's can reach 2.5GHz at 0.13microns, it requires a significant amount of power and generates too much heat.

arn · 05:23 AM

Translation provided by foniks2020:

Quote:

Here's an encore wrapup of rumors on the PPC970.

- Peter Sandon, father of the PPC 970 at IBM, will present his chip at the WWDC.

- Certain members of ADC Select will be able to see a demonstration of a PPC 970 prototype Mac.

- APPLE is finalizing the development tools to optimize the code for the 970 chip. It is already "PPC 98" Ready

- There is also an advance (pre) beta version of a 64 bit Panther.

And to finish, the news about IBM.

- Even though they said that the PPC 970 would not reach the 2.5 Ghz at 0.13 Microns, it in fact will. They have so many already, that the 970 is available in significant volume.

- the 2.5 Ghz processor at 0.13 Microns has a problem though. It consumes 64 Watts and dissipates too much heat. But it isn't worse than a Pentium IV or an Athlon. It would be a true challenge, however, to propose a machine with 2 processors for a total of 128 W!

AmbitiousLemon · Mar 10, 2003, 04:33 AM

as i recall MacBidouille's track record is very good.

when we have seen such demonstration's in the past how long has it taken to go from demonstrated prototype to product announcement?

arn · Mar 10, 2003, 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AmbitiousLemon
as i recall MacBidouille's track record is very good.

when we have seen such demonstration's in the past how long has it taken to go from demonstrated prototype to product announcement?

MacBidouille's record has been variable. Their rumor posts truly span the range.

It made it to the front page of MacRumors... which means I do think it has some basis.

arn

maxterpiece · Mar 10, 2003, 04:52 AM

Faster processors are nice and all, but i think the computer industry as a whole is going to turn away from such a heavy emphasis on sheer speed. Apple has led the way with its iApps. The average user now has something that he or she can physically see and understand as a way of comparing systems. If I had let my Grandma buy a PC, her computer would be so stuffed full of viruses and internet nonsense that she was tricked into downloading, that the 2ghz processor she woulda had for the $1200 she had to spend would have felt about as fast as a 200mhz p2. My point is that hedging any bets on a processor saving, or significantly changing apple's fortunes, is unrealistic. The argument over speed mhz and processor type has been so beaten and overhyped, that people don't know what is what. Sure, the macho guy will still want higher speeds and bigger everything, but he was never an apple customer and will not be until apple has a much larger market share. Apple and its customers need to pray that Apple can really make their OS transcend the hardware it is using. Computers are now an appliance that everyone has. They need to find a way to integrate themselves into the lives of people. 2.5 ghz is nice but isn't gonna mean that much.

scem0 · 05:06 AM

Am I the only one who thinks that March is a bit too soon. Well,
the sooner the better, but I was expecting an update to occur
closer to the end of the year (maybe something before xmas).

I hope MacBoidille is right.

lou tsee · Mar 10, 2003, 05:04 AM

while there's some truth to what you're saying.
SPEED DOES MATTER!
Your grandma represents just one sector of the market. BIG money can be made by the professional industry though. we're talking hundreds of workstations per company in the creative professional market. applications keep increasing their computing demand when it comes to CREATING stuff - not consuming. Apple can not survive in the long run without a substatial marketshare in the professional area, because it also contributes to the amount of software available for the platform etc....

WE NEED SPEED

arn · 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by scem0

Am I the only one who thinks that March is a bit too soon. Well,
the sooner the better, but I was expecting an update to occur
closer to the end of the year (maybe something before xmas).

I hope MacBoidille is right.

Well... WWDC is in May... but besides, just prototypes are mentioend.... which means production would still be a bit aways.

arn

scem0 · Mar 10, 2003, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by arn
Well... WWDC is in May... but besides, just prototypes are mentioend.... which means production would still be a bit aways.

arn

but wouldn't that kill powermac sales?

arn · 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by scem0
but wouldn't that kill powermac sales?

Only if there are sales left to kill

I'm just joking. Sure, I would think it would...

arn

foniks2020 · 05:24 AM

Here's an encore wrapup of rumors on the PPC970.

- Peter Sandon, father of the PPC 970 at IBM, will present his chip during the WWDC.

- Certain members of ADC Select will be able to see a demonstration of a PPC 970 prototype Mac.

- APPLE is finalizing the development tools to optimize the code for the 970 chip. It is already "PPC 98" Ready [not sure what that means]

- There is also an advance (pre) beta version of a 64 bit Panther.

And to finish, the news about IBM.

- Even though they said that the PPC 970 would not reach 2.5 Ghz at 0.13 Microns, it in fact will. They have so many already, that the 970 is available in significant volume.

- the 2.5 Ghz processor at 0.13 Microns has a problem though. It consumes 64 Watts and dissipates too much heat. But it isn't worse than a Pentium IV or an Athlon. It would be a true challenge, however, to propose a machine with 2 processors for a total of 128 W!

scem0 · Mar 10, 2003, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by arn
Only if there are sales left to kill

arn

I was afraid that would be the answer. But when the pictures of
the mirror drive door powermacs were spread around, apple
got rid of them right away. They weren't selling and powermacs
then, it seems like it wouldn't have hurt them any more to let us
see the pictures than showing this prototype will.

RandomDeadHead · Mar 10, 2003, 05:25 AM

I am not holding my breath.

maxterpiece · Mar 10, 2003, 05:28 AM

You are right, we need speed. Speed, however, is not Apple's concern. Apple will find a chip that is competitive enough. They will make the hardware end of their system be at least viable. You are right when you say that businesses that are looking to be productive are going to be interested in speed. Let's get one thing clear then, Apple is in no position to compete on price/performance with PCs. They had a little streak with the second generation iMacs like 3 years ago where, because the G3 made some quick leaps in speed, Apple could compete, but in the open market, Apple has not positioned itself to be that computer.
Apple has sacrificed price/performance (they killed the clones) on the principle that hardware is not what's really important to a computer. Notice that each keynote concentrates less and less on processors, and more on the true innovating that apple is doing. So what I'm saying is that, apple is never going to get those businesses that want straight up performance to run apps that are going to be the same on a PC or Mac. The closest to a business scene Apple will get is a small business user whose business does not operate in such a strictly mechanical way. S/He doesn't have a network administrator. S/he might use his/her computer for more than just one task. Its worth it to him/her to spend the extra $ to save money and hassle in the long run. Otherwise apple is looking to sell the businessperson's laptop (thus their emphasis on the laptop) so he can do some work and have a computer that easily handles whatever else s/he pleases. Or else they're looking for a home user. They aren't gonna put computers in cubicles.
So the "PPC 970s" will come every few years, and maybe they will shake up Apples market share for a year, but they are always going to come, and are not going to change apple's fortunes in the long run.

mproud · Mar 10, 2003, 05:38 AM

Quote:

- APPLE is finalizing the development tools to optimize the code for the 970 chip. It is already "PPC 98" Ready [not sure what that means]

"PPC 98 ready" I would think, would be the next family of processors following the 970. The 970 is based off the Power4; I believe that the 98x will be based of the Power5. In any event, there will be differences between the two chips.
However, why Apple would have code optimized for a processor further down the road than the 970 is odd, so perhaps I'm so totally wrong and ignorant I should be banished into a cave, not to come out until we see what "PPC 98" really is.

proud

cr2sh · Mar 10, 2003, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Macrumors
May 2003

Holy crap! I'm very speculative, but again... Holy crap!

"hurt powermac sales"? "hurt"? It'd ravage them... unless the production is in high enough bulk that this is actually on the Fall release timeline. Wouldn't that be something if 'year of the laptop' turned out to be a bluff?

BWhaler · Mar 10, 2003, 06:41 AM

I would love to get excited about this, but unless Apple plans on releasing new Powermacs at MWNY in the summer, this is just a bad rumor.

As previously posted, a May announcement will kill sales of current Powermacs. It's a tough chicken and egg problem for Apple though: they need 64 bit software for the launch to go well, but they can't get the word out too far in advance without hurting sales.

agent302 · Mar 10, 2003, 06:58 AM

Rather than a full-fledged announcement, this sounds more like a behind-closed-doors developer thing where a few select developers (Adobe, et al) get to see the boxes, but are probably under NDA. And while a leak will probably make its way out, the vast majority of Mac users who don't frequent message boards would know about it and thus it would hurt sales that bad anyway.

sebimeyer · Mar 10, 2003, 07:08 AM

Would those people that see the new hardware or whatever they show at the WWDC be bound by a non disclosure agreement?

AmbitiousLemon · Mar 10, 2003, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by agent302
Rather than a full-fledged announcement, this sounds more like a behind-closed-doors developer thing where a few select developers (Adobe, et al) get to see the boxes, but are probably under NDA. And while a leak will probably make its way out, the vast majority of Mac users who don't frequent message boards wouldn't know about it and thus it wouldn't hurt sales that bad anyway.

I agree. This is not some sort of public announcement. It is WWDC, and the boxes will only be seen behind closed doors. They only announcement is by IBM to developers (not the public).

Powermac sales are already flat and have been for quite sometime (though even educated consumers such as those on these boards have bought MDD powermacs). The kind of people who would know about this announcement are likely people who are already waiting for the PPC970.

AmbitiousLemon · Mar 10, 2003, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sebimeyer
Would those people that see the new hardware or whatever they show at the WWDC be bound by a non disclosure agreement?

Yes. The rumor states these people are ADC Select members, meaning they are already under NDA and one would be sure Apple would make damn certain that the fact that they are under NDA isn't confused.

Abercrombieboy · Mar 10, 2003, 07:59 AM

The way I look at it is eventually the PPC 970 is going to surface one way or another. It is not something that Apple can keep secret forever if they want to have software development for it ready to go when it is released.

Sure for a few months it will kill the PowerMac sales, but Apple can survive the short down-time. Why else do you think they have everyone psyched up with the "Year of the Laptop?" I honestly think Apple created the excitement in their laptops and in the consumer lines to help them through the dry period.

The pending release of the PPC 970 will kill PowerMac sales, but as long as they can keep selling Powerbooks, iBooks, iMacs and eMacs, they can hold on. Most consumers are happy with the current consumer offerings and no one is expecting the current consumer line to change from the current G3 and G4 at least in the short term.

jeffff · Mar 10, 2003, 08:20 AM

The announcement of the 970 won't kill Powermac sales, and may in fact increase them. Why? Because the 970 will not, under any circumstances, be able to boot into OS 9. Steve will make sure of that!

AmbitiousLemon · Mar 10, 2003, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jeffff
The announcement of the 970 won't kill Powermac sales, and may in fact increase them. Why? Because the 970 will not, under any circumstances, be able to boot into OS 9. Steve will make sure of that!

the current powermacs don't boot into os9.

Mr. Anderson · Mar 10, 2003, 08:32 AM

Speed is important - even to Apple. Anyone doing any work big work with FCP knows what I mean. Having to wait for the final render of the video is always a pain. And they're planning on more highend video software, so they're going to need faster machines, period.

And to make the mac a more viable platform for 3D they certainly need speed as well. I personally won't be happy until I can render a complex scene with Radiosity in realtime. It will take another 5 years or more before that will even come close to being possible on the desktop.

D

Mar 10, 2003, 04:27 AM	#1
MacRumors macrumors bot Join Date: Apr 2001	970 at WWDC? MacBidouille posts rumors that the PowerPC 970 will be presented at Apple's WWDC in May 2003. According to the rumor, Peter Sandon of IBM will be presenting the chip at WWDC with certain ADC developers will be able to see a demonstration of a prototype 970 Macintosh. Development tools are being finalized and there is rumored to be a beta of a 64-bit Mac OS X. Macbidouille also claims that while the 2.5GHz 970's can reach 2.5GHz at 0.13microns, it requires a significant amount of power and generates too much heat. Last edited by arn : Mar 10, 2003 at 04:31 AM.

Mar 10, 2003, 04:33 AM	#3
AmbitiousLemon Demi-God (Moderator) Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: down in Fraggle Rock	as i recall MacBidouille's track record is very good. when we have seen such demonstration's in the past how long has it taken to go from demonstrated prototype to product announcement? __________________ Where in the world is Willard now?

Mar 10, 2003, 04:52 AM	#5
maxterpiece macrumors 6502a Join Date: Mar 2003	yeah yeah yeah Faster processors are nice and all, but i think the computer industry as a whole is going to turn away from such a heavy emphasis on sheer speed. Apple has led the way with its iApps. The average user now has something that he or she can physically see and understand as a way of comparing systems. If I had let my Grandma buy a PC, her computer would be so stuffed full of viruses and internet nonsense that she was tricked into downloading, that the 2ghz processor she woulda had for the $1200 she had to spend would have felt about as fast as a 200mhz p2. My point is that hedging any bets on a processor saving, or significantly changing apple's fortunes, is unrealistic. The argument over speed mhz and processor type has been so beaten and overhyped, that people don't know what is what. Sure, the macho guy will still want higher speeds and bigger everything, but he was never an apple customer and will not be until apple has a much larger market share. Apple and its customers need to pray that Apple can really make their OS transcend the hardware it is using. Computers are now an appliance that everyone has. They need to find a way to integrate themselves into the lives of people. 2.5 ghz is nice but isn't gonna mean that much. __________________ Fiction Weekly

Mar 10, 2003, 05:02 AM	#6
scem0 macrumors 601 Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: back in NYC!	Re: What's the word Am I the only one who thinks that March is a bit too soon. Well, the sooner the better, but I was expecting an update to occur closer to the end of the year (maybe something before xmas). I hope MacBoidille is right. __________________ GradientCreator.com - Gradiented Text on Forums Last edited by arn : Mar 10, 2003 at 05:06 AM.

Mar 10, 2003, 05:04 AM	#7
lou tsee macrumors newbie Join Date: May 2002 Location: switzerland	to maxterpiece: while there's some truth to what you're saying. SPEED DOES MATTER! Your grandma represents just one sector of the market. BIG money can be made by the professional industry though. we're talking hundreds of workstations per company in the creative professional market. applications keep increasing their computing demand when it comes to CREATING stuff - not consuming. Apple can not survive in the long run without a substatial marketshare in the professional area, because it also contributes to the amount of software available for the platform etc.... WE NEED SPEED __________________ G5 dual 2GHz 2.5G RAM TiBook800- wearing off slowly iPod 5G Rev.A

Mar 10, 2003, 05:19 AM	#11
foniks2020 macrumors regular Join Date: Apr 2002	better translation Here's an encore wrapup of rumors on the PPC970. - Peter Sandon, father of the PPC 970 at IBM, will present his chip during the WWDC. - Certain members of ADC Select will be able to see a demonstration of a PPC 970 prototype Mac. - APPLE is finalizing the development tools to optimize the code for the 970 chip. It is already "PPC 98" Ready [not sure what that means] - There is also an advance (pre) beta version of a 64 bit Panther. And to finish, the news about IBM. - Even though they said that the PPC 970 would not reach 2.5 Ghz at 0.13 Microns, it in fact will. They have so many already, that the 970 is available in significant volume. - the 2.5 Ghz processor at 0.13 Microns has a problem though. It consumes 64 Watts and dissipates too much heat. But it isn't worse than a Pentium IV or an Athlon. It would be a true challenge, however, to propose a machine with 2 processors for a total of 128 W! __________________ and I'm not a neurosurgeon, I just play one on T.V. Last edited by foniks2020 : Mar 10, 2003 at 05:24 AM.

Mar 10, 2003, 05:25 AM	#13
RandomDeadHead macrumors 6502 Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: fennario	I am not holding my breath.

Mar 10, 2003, 05:28 AM	#14
maxterpiece macrumors 6502a Join Date: Mar 2003	Re: We need speed You are right, we need speed. Speed, however, is not Apple's concern. Apple will find a chip that is competitive enough. They will make the hardware end of their system be at least viable. You are right when you say that businesses that are looking to be productive are going to be interested in speed. Let's get one thing clear then, Apple is in no position to compete on price/performance with PCs. They had a little streak with the second generation iMacs like 3 years ago where, because the G3 made some quick leaps in speed, Apple could compete, but in the open market, Apple has not positioned itself to be that computer. Apple has sacrificed price/performance (they killed the clones) on the principle that hardware is not what's really important to a computer. Notice that each keynote concentrates less and less on processors, and more on the true innovating that apple is doing. So what I'm saying is that, apple is never going to get those businesses that want straight up performance to run apps that are going to be the same on a PC or Mac. The closest to a business scene Apple will get is a small business user whose business does not operate in such a strictly mechanical way. S/He doesn't have a network administrator. S/he might use his/her computer for more than just one task. Its worth it to him/her to spend the extra $ to save money and hassle in the long run. Otherwise apple is looking to sell the businessperson's laptop (thus their emphasis on the laptop) so he can do some work and have a computer that easily handles whatever else s/he pleases. Or else they're looking for a home user. They aren't gonna put computers in cubicles. So the "PPC 970s" will come every few years, and maybe they will shake up Apples market share for a year, but they are always going to come, and are not going to change apple's fortunes in the long run. __________________ Fiction Weekly

Mar 10, 2003, 06:41 AM	#17
BWhaler macrumors 68000 Join Date: Jan 2003	I would love to get excited about this, but unless Apple plans on releasing new Powermacs at MWNY in the summer, this is just a bad rumor. As previously posted, a May announcement will kill sales of current Powermacs. It's a tough chicken and egg problem for Apple though: they need 64 bit software for the launch to go well, but they can't get the word out too far in advance without hurting sales.

Mar 10, 2003, 06:58 AM	#18
agent302 macrumors newbie Join Date: Aug 2001	Rather than a full-fledged announcement, this sounds more like a behind-closed-doors developer thing where a few select developers (Adobe, et al) get to see the boxes, but are probably under NDA. And while a leak will probably make its way out, the vast majority of Mac users who don't frequent message boards would know about it and thus it would hurt sales that bad anyway.

Mar 10, 2003, 07:08 AM	#19
sebimeyer macrumors member Join Date: Jul 2002	would they be bound by a NDA? Would those people that see the new hardware or whatever they show at the WWDC be bound by a non disclosure agreement?

Mar 10, 2003, 07:59 AM	#22
Abercrombieboy macrumors 68000 Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: South Dakota, USA	The way I look at it is eventually the PPC 970 is going to surface one way or another. It is not something that Apple can keep secret forever if they want to have software development for it ready to go when it is released. Sure for a few months it will kill the PowerMac sales, but Apple can survive the short down-time. Why else do you think they have everyone psyched up with the "Year of the Laptop?" I honestly think Apple created the excitement in their laptops and in the consumer lines to help them through the dry period. The pending release of the PPC 970 will kill PowerMac sales, but as long as they can keep selling Powerbooks, iBooks, iMacs and eMacs, they can hold on. Most consumers are happy with the current consumer offerings and no one is expecting the current consumer line to change from the current G3 and G4 at least in the short term. __________________ Mac: 20" Aluminum iMac Core 2 Duo 2.4 Ghz, Mac OSX 10.6.1 iPod Touch 32 GB iPod Classic 80GB Silver Motorola Droid A855

Mar 10, 2003, 08:20 AM	#23
jeffff macrumors newbie Join Date: Feb 2003	970 The announcement of the 970 won't kill Powermac sales, and may in fact increase them. Why? Because the 970 will not, under any circumstances, be able to boot into OS 9. Steve will make sure of that!

Mar 10, 2003, 08:32 AM	#25
Mr. Anderson Demi-God (Moderator) Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Back in VA	Speed is important - even to Apple. Anyone doing any work big work with FCP knows what I mean. Having to wait for the final render of the video is always a pain. And they're planning on more highend video software, so they're going to need faster machines, period. And to make the mac a more viable platform for 3D they certainly need speed as well. I personally won't be happy until I can render a complex scene with Radiosity in realtime. It will take another 5 years or more before that will even come close to being possible on the desktop. D __________________ "Klaatu varada nikto!"

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