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Old Aug 5, 2006, 02:15 PM   #1
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WWDC Rumors: Vitualization and Other Hints at WWDC?

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Extreme Tech reports that VMware will be making an announcement on August 7th at WWDC. While specifics haven't yet been announced, its expected that VMware will be demoing their version of a Windows virtualization product for the Intel Macs. It has been known that VMware has been working on a Mac OS X version of their software. Previous comments revealed that VMware was running on Mac OS X in their labs as early as June.

Parallels received a lot of attention for releasing their virtualization solution in April. Virtualization allows users to run Windows under Mac OS X without having to reboot. There has been speculation that Apple may enter this market with the feature built into the next version of Mac OS X (Leopard), but no definite information is yet available.

Meanwhile, an purported interview with an Apple employee is making the rounds, discussing what to expect at WWDC. In general, while the information is believable, there is no significant revelations beyond what circulating rumors have been predicting.
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Old Aug 5, 2006, 02:19 PM   #2
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Does VMWare support multiple boot? Like you can have Linux, Windows and OS X on your Mac?

That would make it relevant for evryone to switch...

Also, how much does Paralells cost?
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Old Aug 5, 2006, 02:20 PM   #3
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sounds great! man i can't wait until Monday!!!
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Old Aug 5, 2006, 02:26 PM   #4
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Er...I think you have a spelling error in the title..."Vitualization"?
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Old Aug 5, 2006, 02:32 PM   #5
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I gotta say, I wanted to believe the DVD Newsroom link... but the end... god these people are horrible at faking stuff.

"The cellphone went dead and I kept getting a busy signal!"

BS.

FAKE!

It's like they're not even trying this year. I mean, come on... a few horribly photoshopped screen caps, a phone made out of a piece of paper, and some horribly written interviews. Why not go out of your house, find an elevator, and take pictures? You know, rumors that require some amount of legwork!
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Old Aug 5, 2006, 02:34 PM   #6
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It would be nice if they had something like what they have in that new version of linux.... it's like the screens on a huge cube and different OSes can be on different sides..
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Old Aug 5, 2006, 02:35 PM   #7
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Apple should make it so that Windows virtualized apps run 1/2 slower than native OSX apps so developers are encouraged to write OSX apps instead. Allowing Windows apps to run full speed in OSX means developers will be less likely to develop for Mac, which in the long run spells bad trouble for Apple.
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Old Aug 5, 2006, 02:40 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spicyapple
Apple should make it so that Windows virtualized apps run 1/2 slower than native OSX apps so developers are encouraged to write OSX apps instead. Allowing Windows apps to run full speed in OSX means developers will be less likely to develop for Mac, which in the long run spells bad trouble for Apple.
NO! that would be terrible for gamers!
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Old Aug 5, 2006, 02:40 PM   #9
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Wrong Link to the Apple Leaker Article

Here's the right link to the Apple interview, the one above looks broken -- half way down the page:

http://www.dvdnewsroom.com

pretty much on the mark.
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Old Aug 5, 2006, 02:41 PM   #10
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Bring 'em on... the more options, the better.
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Old Aug 5, 2006, 02:48 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Josias
Does VMWare support multiple boot? Like you can have Linux, Windows and OS X on your Mac?
VMWare's current consumer products allow the creation of virtual machines. Basically it's the same concept as Connectix/Microsoft's Virtual PC if you've used that app. You can run most any x86 operating system inside a VMWare virtual machine (Linux, Windows, BSD, x86 Solaris...); and you can run those virtual machines on Linux and Windows and soon... Intel Macs.

Of course, the next generation of VMware is supposedly going to take advantage of processor-based virtualization, a la Parallels. It's supposed to have significant performance advantages over their current system (I must say that VMWare on Linux has always run quite well - good enough even to run a lot of [not-too-graphics-intensive] games).
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Old Aug 5, 2006, 02:49 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spicyapple
Apple should make it so that Windows virtualized apps run 1/2 slower than native OSX apps so developers are encouraged to write OSX apps instead. Allowing Windows apps to run full speed in OSX means developers will be less likely to develop for Mac, which in the long run spells bad trouble for Apple.
That would be the dumbest thing that Apple could do! Just think how popular Apple would be with that decision.

Developers will develop naive apps for OSX if it sells well. They won't just develop for windows as their competitors will eventually fill the niche for OS X and the windows developer will lose sales.

I think virtualization is great. It allows users to easily switch to OS X, which increases the need for native applications. The more the merrier when ti comes to application choices.
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Old Aug 5, 2006, 02:52 PM   #13
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Apple doesn't have to build it into Leopard, namely because they don't have to. companies, one after another, will release competing products which will drive innovation and refinement. Apple doesn't want to, and frankly shouldn't have to, support Windows. If they start building VM into the OS, that's exactly what they're going to be doing. Even an automated recording telling people that call the 800 number that they don't support Windows will cost them $, and the added loss of potential revenue by pissing off newbs and the elderly who think that Apple should support their pwned machine.

Just my $.02
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Old Aug 5, 2006, 02:55 PM   #14
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Look what I get when I click on the interview link:

I think Apple may have had it shut down
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Old Aug 5, 2006, 03:00 PM   #15
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Rubish (interview)

Totally contrived. She says that Apple is a silo, and employees don't know anything until products are released. Then "she" goes on to pontificate about everything under the sun. No Mac Pro until October/November? Give me a break! Complete and utter hog wash.
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Old Aug 5, 2006, 03:03 PM   #16
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Old Aug 5, 2006, 03:07 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dextertangocci
Look what I get when I click on the interview link:

I think Apple may have had it shut down
You notice the "Some people are linking incorrectly to our Apple interview, here's the actual page...." part? (the stupidly have a ' character in the page name... likely causing some of the problem).

You can get the text from slashdot if the server is slow...
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Old Aug 5, 2006, 03:14 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daveL
Totally contrived. She says that Apple is a silo, and employees don't know anything until products are released. Then "she" goes on to pontificate about everything under the sun. No Mac Pro until October/November? Give me a break! Complete and utter hog wash.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
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Old Aug 5, 2006, 03:30 PM   #19
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Why is mention of this interview even on Page 1? It's barely Page 2 if you ask me.

Is MWSF '06 so far gone that people forgot about all the grandiose rumors (from usually proven "spys") that proved to be flat out wrong. Excuse me while I turn off my Mac 42" TV.

Then right after the Keynote, when "all" we got was the MBP these "spy" told us they heard that Apple insiders had even cooler laptops in store and that you should really wait a couple months. Sure the MB and 17" came out. They are not cooler, just different, for a different market. If you had waited, you'd still be waiting.

Then there was the Special Event in Feb. Rumors flying off the shelf about real video iPod, iPhones, you name it. We got speakers, iPod cases, and an Intel mini. Woopee.

So now we have a posting from someone who isn't even in to Mac, but he has a contact at Apple who is willing to speak...as if Jobs wouldn't hunt him down like wild prey. No true insider or legit source is going to leak anything right now. They know the consequences. All we can do is make educated guesses ourselves. Don't give these blog jack@sses the glory of crediting them anything...even fabricating interviews.
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Old Aug 5, 2006, 04:03 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Zazaban
It would be nice if they had something like what they have in that new version of linux.... it's like the screens on a huge cube and different OSes can be on different sides..
Actually, you can do that with Paralles product.
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Old Aug 5, 2006, 05:39 PM   #21
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the interview just doesn't feel right...and why would this source know anything about when the mac pro is shipping when no information is even leaked within the company? And better yet, what excuse would apple have for not having at least some ready to go by the end of this month...the contender chips have both been shipping for a while now....the first Conroes were available online even several weeks ago, woodcrest is widespread now.
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Old Aug 5, 2006, 07:45 PM   #22
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the interview just doesn't feel right...
I agree. In particular, the reference to a "true video iPod", using the exact same terminology as the rumor sites, is particularly suspect.

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Old Aug 5, 2006, 08:23 PM   #23
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Apple

My wife's uncle worked at Motorola back when they were the major supplier of CPUs for Apple. Also, I've personally known a few people who worked for Apple in varying positions within the company.

Motorola is a far less secretive company than Apple. My wife's uncle is one of the engineers who designed their cell phone processors and other ICs. So it's not like the guy doesn't know his silicon (meaning about CPUs and what Motorola offered at the time). That being said, much of the time, he did not know what CPU Motorola was going to be shipping to Apple before a keynote even though the CPU has to be designed, fabricated, and shipped to Apple months and months before a machine is released. Part of this is that he worked on cell phones, part of this is that it was a major deal within Motorola not to give away tons of info on what they would be shipping to Apple. The most he would ever get was a "You should see what we're going to be shipping to Apple soon" from one of the PPC engineers. So he'd know something cool was on the horizon, but never know what it is.

Apple in the other hand is crazy about secrecy. They sometimes distribute incorrect information to certain teams with Apple in order to track leaks. I've heard that early builds of OSX are digitally tagged in order to track down leaks, from reputable sources. This is why you're not seeing Leopard available for download yet. It's not that someone couldn't easily post it in a normally untraceable way, it's that the internal Apple developer's copy of OSX is probably tagged, so they'd immediately know who leaked it. The WWDC copies of OSX Leopard will almost certainly appear in pirate circles within a week or two of the conference due to the fact that it'd be nearly impossible to tag them and track who got which copy, especially considering the number of copies they will be distributing at WWDC.

What I have been able to easily get info on in the past from Apple employees, is when a show is going to be a snooze or a killer show. In the case of the bad shows (like when the G4 was stuck at 500Mhz), I'd heard that there was a definite undercurrent of "do not get in the elevator with Steve Jobs this week" at Apple. The people in question I talked to were tense during these times. Other times I'd hear from them that the show was going to be stellar, and that they'd heard from the "guys in hardware" that it was going to rock, but never any major specifics. When Apple introduced "Mystic" the people I knew at Apple were very upbeat on the other hand.

I have gotten a few tidbits here and there, but for most Apple employees, they won't know what's being released until it is. This goes double for the retail staff. Form factor is something that only the engineers on that project, and the top management of the company may be in on. So if your source is Jobs , then he probably knows what the Mac Pro will look like. If your source is a core OSX programmer or nearly anyone there who doesn't work on that team, almost certainly they won't know. New hardware and form factor info is basically the most guarded thing at Apple. OSX is probably one of the least guarded, being that many developers within Apple will have early builds of the "next OSX" to make sure that iLife, or whatever program works on the next version of the OS perfectly. These builds have to be given to the programming teams months before the "next OSX" ships. These builds are also delivered to developers for the same reason.

So it's generally safe to say that while the general Apple employee in Cupertino may sense an undercurrent of excitement when good stuff is coming, they probably won't know specifics. Furthermore, there have been times when I have heard from people at Apple that at the very last minute, Steve Jobs decided that something wasn't ready, or couldn't be made ready, and cut it from the keynote. You don't want to work on the team responsible for a project that gets cut at the last minute. Some of the lamer keynotes had quite a few things cut, and watching them online it's easy to see that Jobs is annoyed (like the time he threw the camera at the iPhoto guys). So in many cases there's less than a dozen people at Apple who will really know what will be on the floor before a keynote more than a few days before it happens. Sometimes it's just Steve Jobs.

Unfortunately for me, those people that I knew who worked at Apple don't anymore.
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Old Aug 5, 2006, 08:29 PM   #24
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While specifics haven't yet been announced, its expected that VMware will be demoing their version of a Windows virtualization product for the Intel Macs.
This is quickly becoming a little pet peeve of mine. Why do so many people equate virtualization with Windows on Mac? They are not the same thing. While running Windows in a virtual machine is probably the most common use of virtualization, it can also be used to run just about any other operating system supported by the hardware.

VMWare is not just for running Windows -- it's for running any supported x86 operating system. Including Windows, Linux, BSD, Solaris, etc. Same as Parallels.

There. Feels better now.
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Old Aug 5, 2006, 08:55 PM   #25
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Apple... (furthermore)

Their "source" seems to "know" what is being worked on (Mac Pro, something wireless for iPod, Airport Extreme video, iPhone in prototype only) without knowing the actual specifics of what will ship (Mac Pro enclosure, ipod HD/screen size, etc) to be credible.

I've had similar conversations in the past with Apple people:

Me: The main issue with the G4 is that the front side bus sucks, any word on when RapidIO or similar will come into play?

Apple guy: I understand that this won't be an issue soon.

(This was before the G5)

edit:
Also the information is a safe enough bet to be made up by someone intelligent who has been paying attention.

edit:

Also it's basically a certainty that there will NOT be virtualiztion built into the OS. Not for multiple OSes, not for multiple instances of OSX. And no, I don't have inside information, I've just been following Apple, NeXT, and the computer in general for many years. Virtualiztion at the OS level is something that mainframes OSes do, this is not useful for Apple, regardless of how badly you want to run Windows at the same time. Buy a copy of Parallels or wait for VMware.
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