much faster Mac gaming on the way?

[atari1356]

I couldn't find any other threads on this, and it seems like pretty big news... there's an article over at ArsTechnica which mentions this:

The LLVM JIT optimizations combined with the new multi-threaded OpenGL stack have yielded a doubling of the frame-rate in "a very popular MMORPG" (which is code for "WoW"). Yikes!

With a link to another article on InsideMacGames that has some additional info:

With multi-threaded OpenGL, the game, for example, can run off one core/CPU, while OpenGL can work on the second core/processor for its processing. So they work in concurrent fashion instead of co-habitating one CPU. The amount of benefit multi-threaded OpenGL games will have depends on how complex a scene in a game is. So, for example, in a very complex scene with lots of polygons, you'll see big gains in frame rates. One person told me they saw a very popular MMORPG DOUBLE in frame rates in one particular scene because of multi-threaded OpenGL. We're talking from 60 frames to 130 frames just in that one scene alone.

Looks like multi-processor Macs will be getting a nice boost in gaming performance - the question is when? Maybe not until Leopard, hopefully sooner...

[Multimedia]

This should portend what all applications will be able to take advantage of.

[~Shard~]

Originally Posted by Multimedia

This should portend what all applications will be able to take advantage of.

Agreed. This could be big news for games, but think of the advantages for applications as well. Very cool.

[nagromme]

In 2006 a historic step took place: multi-processing machines became common--for low-cost CONSUMER systems.

As a result, the egg is here and the chicken is inevitable: we will see developers doing more and more with multi-threading because now it can benefit any kind of user

[Analog Kid]

I'm kind of surprised this wasn't being done already... I think we're going to be seeing most libraries converted to multi-threading very soon-- probably down to the networking layer where it didn't make sense to add the overhead before. It's the only way these monolithic applications are going to see much improvement on a 4 processor machine.

I think we're stuck at 3GHz and less for quite a while so single threaded apps, and apps linked to single threaded libraries, aren't going to show a performance improvement until they're broken down.

[~Shard~]

Originally Posted by Analog Kid

I think we're stuck at 3GHz and less for quite a while so single threaded apps, and apps linked to single threaded libraries, aren't going to show a performance improvement until they're broken down.

Agreed. I think multiple cores are going to be the way of the near term future, not faster clock speeds. Just wait until the likes of Kentsfield, Clovertown and Dunnington are released. And they're not that far away either.

[kainjow]

This is awesome news. I can't wait until Blizzard releases a UB of Warcraft III with these improvements to OpenGL

It is still unclear, however, whether Intel's GMA 950 graphics processor or old ATI/NVIDIA hardware found on older machines will get support for multi-threaded OpenGL.

Bah, it better be available for the MacBooks

[treblah]

First Parallels saying they are going to do full hardware OGL and DirectX in 2.0 and now this.

The Mac a viable gaming platform? No, surely not!

[~Shard~]

Originally Posted by kainjow

I can't wait until Blizzard releases a UB of Warcraft III with these improvements to OpenGL

I can't wait until Blizzard releases Starcraft 2...

[bobber205]

Originally Posted by kainjow

This is awesome news. I can't wait until Blizzard releases a UB of Warcraft III with these improvements to OpenGL


Bah, it better be available for the MacBooks

No kidding!

Not being able to really play the endgame is what stopped me from actually buying WoW after the trial ran out...

[Silentwave]

Originally Posted by ~Shard~

Agreed. I think multiple cores are going to be the way of the near term future, not faster clock speeds. Just wait until the likes of Kentsfield, Clovertown and Dunnington are released. And they're not that far away either.

Don't forget Yorkfield and Tigerton (the latter of which should be out well before Dunnington).

With max clock speeds likely to stay around the same range or even drop slightly (in the case of Clovertown) with the addition of more cores, they'll have to get moving on this- they can't procrastinate or they will suffer the consequences of poorly performing products on fast computers.

[~Shard~]

Originally Posted by miketcool

By Starcraft 2 you also mean Diablo III UB with the original view intact!

Yes, that as well. But mostly Starcraft 2.

Originally Posted by Silentwave

Don't forget Yorkfield and Tigerton (the latter of which should be out well before Dunnington).

With max clock speeds likely to stay around the same range or even drop slightly (in the case of Clovertown) with the addition of more cores, they'll have to get moving on this- they can't procrastinate or they will suffer the consequences of poorly performing products on fast computers.

Absolutely - hopefully this is a wake-up call for developer's (if they aren't on board already), as the perception alone of the situation you described is undesirable at best - "new" apps running relatively sluggish on multi-core machines. There will be no excuse.

[mattbray]

I think people are missing a pretty obvious point: We don't really have any games for Macs... You don't need to look any farther than the FPS genre to realize that Mac gamers are getting sloppy seconds. Case in point: the games that we do get, arrive long after their PC counterparts (Quake, Doom, Halo). What about a Mac port of F.E.A.R or any of the Half Life series?

Game developers need to work on getting games to Macs before they worry about how incredibly fast they run...

[BenRoethig]

Originally Posted by mattbray

I think people are missing a pretty obvious point: We don't really have any games for Macs... You don't need to look any farther than the FPS genre to realize that Mac gamers are getting sloppy seconds. Case in point: the games that we do get, arrive long after their PC counterparts (Quake, Doom, Halo). What about a Mac port of F.E.A.R or any of the Half Life series?

Game developers need to work on getting games to Macs before they worry about how incredibly fast they run...

Once we finally ditch the PowerPC for once and for all, expect that all to change. An intel only port will be done much faster and cheaper than porting the same game to run on PowerPCs.

[~Shard~]

Originally Posted by BenRoethig

Once we finally ditch the PowerPC for once and for all, expect that all to change. An intel only port will be done much faster and cheaper than porting the same game to run on PowerPCs.

Agreed. And then there's always Parallels...

[Mackilroy]

Originally Posted by ~Shard~

Agreed. And then there's always Parallels...

Boot Camp is better for gaming than Parallels.

[torncanvas]

As a game developer myself, I resent anyone generalizing that no game developer wants to release a game for the Mac. We could easily do it, if it wasn't for the freaking 3rd party libraries!!!

You wanna bug someone about no Mac games - contact the makers of the following third party libraries and tell them to offer a Mac version:

SpeedTree
Ageia PhysX
AI.Implant
Havoc

They offer Linux versions, so OS X should be no big deal. But noooo, no respect for the Mac. :/

[crees!]

Originally Posted by Mackilroy

Boot Camp is better for gaming than Parallels.

Only if Parallels is full of crap when they said they're working on FULL SPEED gaming in Parallels and should have a beta out by years end.

[Fatal Darkness]

Originally Posted by BenRoethig

Once we finally ditch the PowerPC for once and for all, expect that all to change. An intel only port will be done much faster and cheaper than porting the same game to run on PowerPCs.

No, it will make no difference since most modern games are written mostly in high level languages and use many third party libraries and APIs rather than using assembly to do everything.

In fact, by that logic we would have been better off with PowerPC since all three next-gen consoles use the PowerPC architecture.

Writing a game for Windows/DirectX is very different from writing a game for OSX/OpenGL, regardless of what processor you have. If it weren't for APIs and the OS, the difference between compiling for PPC or Intel is just a matter of a command line switch to gcc.

[Analog Kid]

More indications that we'll be seeing much more focus on multithreaded apps:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/08...el_suite_help/

[ezekielrage_99]

This wil be good news for Mac gaming, with the Inetl change we have seen some very good developments of what Apple can do. With the Mac pro cheaper than the Dell equal and more developers making new mac software stuff this means more choice for the Apple community in general.

And after all the Intel ports will be done faster and cheaper, YAY

[fblack]

On quick perusal this seems to suggest that integrated graphics will be a major beneficierary. So people with Macbooks might see their performance increase substantially. People with high end GPU's might only see small increases...

http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/pipermail/l...st/006492.html

[Skilargo]

Originally Posted by fblack

On quick perusal this seems to suggest that integrated graphics will be a major beneficierary. So people with Macbooks might see their performance increase substantially. People with high end GPU's might only see small increases...

Originally Posted by atari1356

The LLVM JIT optimizations combined with the new multi-threaded OpenGL stack have yielded a doubling of the frame-rate in "a very popular MMORPG" (which is code for "WoW"). Yikes!

I've hesitated buying a new Intel Dual Core MacMini to replace my noisy Quicksilver (want a smaller, quieter footprint to use with my much-loved 22in cinema display), only due to the poor reports on MacMini 3D gaming. Since my boy has just gotten into WoW, this forum has definitely peaked my interest. Is it possible/likely that multi-threaded OpenGL will help the Dual Core MacMini platform? Significantly?

[CaptainScarlet]

What I like to know is when will Apple actually help out the Mac gaming community and create the "Killer" game app for it's user base???

Isn't it time for Apple to step up to the plate and deliver the ultimate game.

Microsoft had now problems creating Halo for the Xbox/PC.

Why is Apple holding back???

[ezekielrage_99]

Originally Posted by Skilargo

I've hesitated buying a new Intel Dual Core MacMini to replace my noisy Quicksilver (want a smaller, quieter footprint to use with my much-loved 22in cinema display), only due to the poor reports on MacMini 3D gaming. Since my boy has just gotten into WoW, this forum has definitely peaked my interest. Is it possible/likely that multi-threaded OpenGL will help the Dual Core MacMini platform? Significantly?

The Mac Mini wa never going to be a gaming machine however for what it is the Mac Mini is still an extremely good computer. I've only run WoW and Warcraft III on my Mac Mini and I can say although the speed isn't blistering the games are still very playable and faster than my old G4 Mac Mini.

I'm happy with my Mac Mini