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Old Aug 23, 2006, 03:31 PM   #1
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Apple, Dell, Lenovo To Develop Battery Standards

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In the wake of Dell's recall of 4.1 million Lithium Ion batteries and multiple embarassing incidents of both Dell and Apple laptops catching fire, AppleInsider is reporting that Apple, Dell, and Lenovo will be holding a summit next month to develop lithium ion (Li-Ion) standards. All 3 companies are members of the IPC OEM Critical Components Committee which create standards for various electronic devices.

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"Without a doubt, standardization can and will address the issue of operation and safety called into question by the use of lithium ion batteries.," said John Grosso, chairman of the IPC OEM Critical Components Committee and director of supplier engineering and quality at Dell. "While the Committee had identified lithium ion batteries as the next product for standardization, we are going to accelerate our activities now."

Grosso said the IPC Committee will identify any current standards related to lithium ion batteries with the goal of standardizing design, performance and safety requirements for these batteries.
Apple has historically used Li-Ion batteries in its iBook and PowerBook laptops, but has opted for Lithium Polymer batteries (Li-Poly) in its MacBook and MacBook Pro computers. One of the apparent advantages of Li-Poly batteries is reduced combustability. Apple still uses Li-Ion batteries in its current model iPods however.

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Last edited by longofest; Aug 23, 2006 at 03:38 PM.
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Old Aug 23, 2006, 03:34 PM   #2
AlBDamned
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I hope Sony is also in attendance. They should really pick up the bill for all of this battery b/s. As much as I dislike Dell products, their reputation (and bank balance) has taken a pounding in the consumer eye all because Sony messed up.
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Old Aug 23, 2006, 03:34 PM   #3
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I figured Dell would decide to do this, and Apple and Lenovo perhaps should as well.
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Old Aug 23, 2006, 03:35 PM   #4
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It's about time!
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Old Aug 23, 2006, 03:45 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlBDamned
I hope Sony is also in attendance. They should really pick up the bill for all of this battery b/s. As much as I dislike Dell products, their reputation (and bank balance) has taken a pounding in the consumer eye all because Sony messed up.
label me ignorant but what did sony do exactly?
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Old Aug 23, 2006, 03:46 PM   #6
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So by "standardizing design" do they mean "interchangeable"? Or is it just a common internal design?
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Old Aug 23, 2006, 03:50 PM   #7
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It will be internal only stuff.
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Old Aug 23, 2006, 03:51 PM   #8
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The MacBook Pro had its MagSafe (MagUnsafe that is ) fire problem.


http://cache.gizmodo.com/gadgets/ima...e_firebook.jpg

I'm pretty sure that this problem was corrected prior to the MacBook's release but I'm not so sure if you can be guaranteed that a fire cannot be caused by MagSafe again.
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Old Aug 23, 2006, 03:54 PM   #9
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Standard: Batteries should not explode.

"OK, what else do we need to discuss while everyone's here?"
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Old Aug 23, 2006, 03:56 PM   #10
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That image [MagSafe] was the Cat Pee issue. I remember that thread a long time ago.
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Old Aug 23, 2006, 03:56 PM   #11
aly
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Standards

I'm surprised these standards were not already in place to be honest! The chemicals used in Li-ion batteries are indeed very combustible. Anyone ever seen lithium when placed in water? Its explosive and quite exciting to watch. I'm not entirely surprised weve seen such problems with companies trying to get as much power out of batteries as possible yet keeping sizes down. To answer someones question above, the batteries were produced by sony, and to answer another, standards generally means internal workings such as acceptable heat output, ability to cope with short circuits etc, to avoid these problems happening again.

I'm just glad i haven't had any problems and my lap is still intact!!

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Old Aug 23, 2006, 03:59 PM   #12
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This is very good news.

1. The big boys are not acting like boys and going it alone again.
2. This should drive up quality and down prices.
3. It should free up resources for true development like lifespan, weight, etc
4. It reminds me that Apple is committed to top notch hardware as well as software.
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Old Aug 23, 2006, 04:02 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BornAgainMac
That image [MagSafe] was the Cat Pee issue. I remember that thread a long time ago.
I remember the magsafe catching fire, but I dont remember anything about cat pee! Could you fill me in??

Thanks.

On topic... I think it's pretty good news, and Dell and Apple working together... gosh
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Old Aug 23, 2006, 04:03 PM   #14
AlBDamned
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmsait19
label me ignorant but what did sony do exactly?

It's Sony batteries that are blowing up, not Dell batteries.

What's worse is that both companies knew of the problem in 2005, before anything actually spontaneously combusted.

As this engadget article says, it's lucky for both companies that nobody was seriously injured or killed.
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Old Aug 23, 2006, 04:10 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlBDamned
It's Sony batteries that are blowing up, not Dell batteries.

What's worse is that both companies knew of the problem in 2005, before anything actually spontaneously combusted.

As this engadget article says, it's lucky for both companies that nobody was seriously injured or killed.
Yes, Sony has issues too, but Dell has had more than one Inspiron blow up on them, so it is innaccurate to say that Dell batteries are not blowing up.
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Old Aug 23, 2006, 04:10 PM   #16
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Way off topic: I wonder how many people have commited suicide because of the frustration of Microsoft! You'd think of the what....3 billion people that use computers one would have had to!

On Topic: Why would Apple need to attend? I thought that was the point of switching to the new batteries that the MacBooks and MacBook Pros.
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Old Aug 23, 2006, 04:16 PM   #17
AlBDamned
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longofest
Yes, Sony has issues too, but Dell has had more than one Inspiron blow up on them, so it is innaccurate to say that Dell batteries are not blowing up.
But aren't all the batteries in all the laptops in question (Dell, Apple etc) ultimately made by Sony?
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Old Aug 23, 2006, 04:17 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oryan
So by "standardizing design" do they mean "interchangeable"? Or is it just a common internal design?

Because the shape of the battery in laptops, camcorders, mp3 players & other battery powered items it would be hard to make them easily replaceable. Could you imagine Apple making their PoerBook or IntelMacBook Pro thicker because the larger group in the laptop area says or got it passed that laptop batteries would be 7/8' or maybe even 1" thick. Or would the thicker laptops in the Windows areana accept the thin batteris that Apple uses. Even Apple, which designs, but does not build, their laptops have a different battery for each size of screen. Someimes they change the battery within that category. Like the PowerBook to the Intel PowerBook Pro. Same case, but they use a diferent battery.

This wuld lead us to believe that they are just talking about just a common internal design. This I'm sure would help reliability, to help our laptops perform better & more safely. Interchangable would make things easier for the end user, like using you battery from your 17" PowerBook in your 17" Core 2 Duo, or maybe even something like a Core 4 Duo. Even greater wuld be if you could bring your extra batteries from you Windows laptop to your new Intel MacBook Pro when you decide to upgrade platforms as well as computer.

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Old Aug 23, 2006, 04:21 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlBDamned
But aren't all the batteries in all the laptops in question (Dell, Apple etc) ultimately made by Sony?
yeah, the cells are, but the charging system, which was blamed in Dell's case, was not a Sony thing: it was Dell.

but i think there was a big element of pointing fingers.

i rekon independant enquiry, and find out what's to blame. if it's the cells, then charge sony. if not, charge dell. simple.
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Old Aug 23, 2006, 04:21 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markkk!
Way off topic: I wonder how many people have commited suicide because of the frustration of Microsoft! You'd think of the what....3 billion people that use computers one would have had to!

On Topic: Why would Apple need to attend? I thought that was the point of switching to the new batteries that the MacBooks and MacBook Pros.
Because they still use Li-ion batteries in iPods.
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Old Aug 23, 2006, 04:24 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longofest
Yes, Sony has issues too, but Dell has had more than one Inspiron blow up on them, so it is innaccurate to say that Dell batteries are not blowing up.
Actually it's entirely accurate to say that Dell batteries are not blowing up - every one of the batteries that have been recalled were made by Sony, not Dell. The fact that they were in Dell laptops at the time does not make them DEll batteries
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Old Aug 23, 2006, 04:29 PM   #22
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About time some companies sat down and worked out some quality control standards for batteries. 'Specially Li-Ion, with their potential to go boom.

I do find it moderately amusing that there were complaints all over the place about Apple's poor quality control or whatever after some of their new batteries didn't perform well (not explode, mind you, just not performing well), and I specifically read several things pointing to Dell as an example of a company that didn't have battery problems. Then Dell issues a recall of 4 million batteries because they're specifically a hazard.

Point not being that Apple is without flaw, but that everybody has trouble with batteries from time to time, and "my MacBook won't accept a full charge" isn't quite the same as "my Inspiron blew up". Plus the numbers are an order of magnitude larger--Apple's recall consisted of 100K or 200K batteries, right?
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Old Aug 23, 2006, 04:34 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aly
Anyone ever seen lithium when placed in water? Its explosive and quite exciting to watch.
Try caesium or francium .

Disclaimer: don't.
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Old Aug 23, 2006, 04:46 PM   #24
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well. i just hope they manage to work it out so no one out here, like us. every have to worry about our batteries, aside from battery life.

though if they could get rid of batteries limited recharge life, that would be awesome.
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Old Aug 23, 2006, 04:48 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlBDamned
I hope Sony is also in attendance. They should really pick up the bill for all of this battery b/s. As much as I dislike Dell products, their reputation (and bank balance) has taken a pounding in the consumer eye all because Sony messed up.
I hope not. Their record in collaborations like this is dismal. Better that the others come up with something and just send the specs to Sony to make the batteries.
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