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A switchers opinion on the whole C2D Macbook thing...
- Thread starter wallock
- Start date
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wallock said:
Except that it is false. It has been proven time and again that, for example, the Mac Pro is cheaper than an equivalently configured machine from Dell (or any other major OEM). If you want to say, "well, I don't really need 4 cores in my desktop tower, 2 will do just fine, but Apple doesn't offer a tower with only 2 cores," then that is a fair argument. But that is not what you claimed - you made an absolute claim that is patently false. So you're right that there is no debate - but that is just because these days even Windows fans will admit that your claim is wrong!
As for the Core 2 Duo MBPs, of course they are coming soon. If you are so impatient that you can't wait a couple weeks, then I suggest you go order a Dell or something. Except that the Dell XPS notebooks with Core 2 Duos have a two week shipping delay, so you'll still be SOL anyway. Has it occurred to you that maybe Apple wants to build up enough stock so that they can do more than just a "paper launch"?
Mac pricing
I've just been tasked to price up some pc laptops for someone as their organisation won't get along with macs, anyway the bottom line is that pc laptops aren't that cheap. Something like a macbook is looking like £100 more than the same spec macbook and look at the difference in the design or the OS.
There's no contest.
All desktops are on the pricey side though (with the exception of some of the high end stuff), maybe that's where the comparison comes from.
Back to the original topic, I don't think people are justified in pointing out "whiners" wanting MBP/MB upgrades. It's reasonable given the switch to Intel to think that Apple are Intel's new posterchild (I'm not sure they are given the last couple of months but...). The C2D should have gone in there first if you maintain that view.
Points towards engineering problems to keep the heat down. Apple laptops are a lot thinner than most pc laptops, no wonder the PC world can just put these chips in and not have problems. Same in engineering terms for some PC laptops as upgrading the iMac (which apple have done).
I've just been tasked to price up some pc laptops for someone as their organisation won't get along with macs, anyway the bottom line is that pc laptops aren't that cheap. Something like a macbook is looking like £100 more than the same spec macbook and look at the difference in the design or the OS.
There's no contest.
All desktops are on the pricey side though (with the exception of some of the high end stuff), maybe that's where the comparison comes from.
Back to the original topic, I don't think people are justified in pointing out "whiners" wanting MBP/MB upgrades. It's reasonable given the switch to Intel to think that Apple are Intel's new posterchild (I'm not sure they are given the last couple of months but...). The C2D should have gone in there first if you maintain that view.
Points towards engineering problems to keep the heat down. Apple laptops are a lot thinner than most pc laptops, no wonder the PC world can just put these chips in and not have problems. Same in engineering terms for some PC laptops as upgrading the iMac (which apple have done).
I would prefer Sony.wallock said:
I feel the MacBook is fairly priced. Although the MacPro make look overpriced, they got the best of the best that I can't afford.wallock said:
Omg AMEN to that. For those who say don't wait, buy it when you need it, I'm poor ya know! I need the best of the best, something that can last long and not be obsolete in a year, and something that I can afford (MacBookwallock said:
).scott523 said:
On one hand, I agree with you, wait for as long as you can - but on the other hand, a current MB(P) will not be obsolete in a year. Given Intel's road map, it definitely will not be the newest/greatest version either.Also, I'm not aware of any *shipping* merom laptops - but I am aware of shipping merom desktops (called iMacs).
You could wait for santa rosa and whatever comes after that, personally, I'm mostly waiting for leopard (and the savings account to have enough cash). By then, I'm sure we'll have merom MBPs.
Will they have removable HDs? Probably not. 802.11n capable cards? Most likely.
not even every pc vendor has core2duo laptops out yet, and apple were 1st with the coreduo, its only a couple of weeks, they know what theyre doing
wallock said:
I do not pay a premium. Premium implies that I am paying more in comparison to something else. No company offers me what Apple does.
Beautifully engineered hardware. Software that is integrated together to offer a fantastic experience.
My Mac Pro is more beautiful than any computer I could ever build. Both hardware and software wise.
So, there is no premium if this is what I want to buy. You sound like a typical switcher, brought in by the allure of the Mac and Apple name, only to find out you can't have then for $499. Thus I take your opinion for what it is worth. Nothing.
wallock said:
Who on earth do you think you are?! The Messiah?! This is a forum - absolutely everything anyone says is up for debate. If you don't like that, talk to yourself in the mirror where you're guaranteed that no-one will disagree with your grandoise pronouncements
I think the posters above have ridiculed your 'non-debatable' point enough, so I needn't bother.
wallock said:
Have you got a picture of this laptop though? I don't think I've ever seen a Dell laptop that I've ever thought to myself "I simply must have that". Not liek when I first saw the Macbook in the Apple store. And this isn't a merely superficial point - when a laptop looks as stunning as Apple's often do, it's indicative of the care and dedication that has gone into more substantial elements of the engineering. I bet the size and look of this Dell is horrendous. Apple have managed to maintain a very small and sleek shell whilst (despite some initial setbacks) keeping the temperature down. When I pay for that, I'm not paying a premium. I'm paying for something that, to me, is just as important (if not more so) than a Merom chipset.
If you simply want top specs for as cheap as possible, then go for a Dell. That's not what Apple is about. Thank God.
wallock said:
Again it is not a premium to everyone. So stop saying "Apple users". I don't pay a premium, nor do I feel in anyway that I do.
If you feel it is a premium then stop buying, because you have clearly missed the point of an Apple computer.
Other manufactuers arent even shippin C2D notebooks in quantity. Not to mention most people have no idea what is happening. There are hundreds if not thousands buying Macbooks and Macbook Pros right now, oblivious to a mediocre processor upgrade, that for the people waiting, only satisfies their need to have the best/newest and nothing more.
If you don't want to wait, then don't buy. No one is stopping you. You don't need to post the 1 millionth thread about Merom notebooks. It has beaten to Hell and back, at least 4 times. Maybe 5.
You also don't know Apples strategy in this matter. They will do it, they changed the iMac over and moved the Mini to all CD. That would suggest movement in the notebook line. The MBP may be the only one to get C2D, maybe not. Nobody knows.
Amen.FleurDuMal said:
Personally, I was drooling over the Dell Conroe desktops that are beginning to show up here, but I ran some benchmarks on them vs. my 1.83 GHz 17" iMac, and the differences are too small to really make a difference.
wallock: You're comparing Apples and oranges here. The $1700 lappy you are looking at is from Dell's consumer line. Try pricing one from the XPS line and you'll see the delta isn't $1000, but in fact quite a bit less when you include features like Expresscard slots and FireWire. You could also make a valid complaint that Apple doesn't give you the same number of configurable options as a Dell, but the cost of these options would be an increase in size, which most Apple users would consider a big negative.
C2D will come, when Apple's ready for it. That said, I still want a midrange Conroe based headless Mac.
B
I've actually been quite pleased with my purchases from Dell, no lemons to date.calculus said:
Both Dell and apple address their target markets in very different ways. Dell doesn't offer any products that directly compete with the Mac mini, iMac or MacBook, while you can actually compare MBPs, Mac Pros and some Dells.
B
Right, it's about appearances. Conspicuous consumption. 'Finely-engineered hardware' - oooh. I know that the beauty of an interior I never look about certainly makes all the difference in the world to my productivity. And boy howdy, I'd just die if my laptop were a half-inch thicker (consequently cooler).
(The last good engineering move Apple made was the Macbook hard drive access slot. I can't think of another laptop with that ability._
I fear that my next round of Mac purchases (Mac Pro today, Macbook Pro next spring) will be my last. Four years after that, I hope that Linux will have matured (the OS itself has, application availability hasn't - give me Adobe CS4 or 5 on Linux and I'm happy) enough to merit its use, because Apple's yuppie home appliance strategy is a dead end.
For you. For a yuppie in search of a home appliance, it might just work.milozauckerman said:
EDIT: I've just spent quite a bit of time watching a friend build up a Conroe box over the past week and am quite glad I no longer feel the desire/have the time to assemble my own systems.
B
I have no desire to build my own, but the option to purchase from any number of OEMs, who offer remarkably capable desktops from $1200-1900, would be refreshing. (hell, the option of a true desktop that didn't weigh more than an 8-year old girl would be nice enough)