iDVD and choppy video in the final product

Stormybot · Oct 6, 2006

This is my first post on MacRumors. I am a big fan of the site and have been reading for years but have never posted.

Anyways, I will get to the point. I just got a high end Mac Mini with the dual layer DVD burner on Sunday and I had some old DVD's that I recorded using a Panasonic DVD Recorder that I wanted to combine on one DVD. They are all sports videos so there is a lot of fast motion and such. I wanted to burn them on my Mac Mini because I wanted to add chapters and do a little editing. So I got the multiple DVD's and and used Mac The Ripper to grab the .VOB's off each one. Then I dropped it into Drop2DV and then edited the resulting .dv files in iMovie. My final movie was about 2 hours and 30 minutes. So I put it into iDVD, made a nice new motion menu with Scene Selections and everything. When I burned to a dual layer DVD+R DL using "Best Quality" because it is so long and played it on my Mini, it played great. However, when I take it to one of my other two DVD players (the Panasonic and the other is a Samsung), the parts that have fast motion (which is most of it since it is all sports stuff) are very very choppy and it is really annoying.

Does anyone know why this happens? Is there a setting in anything that I can change to fix this? This was one of my main reasons for getting the mini. I wanted to consolidate a number of my DVD's. Any help would be appreciated. Let me know if there is any other information that you need. And no, it was not a fluke thing because I tried to burn another video to a DVD-R and the fast parts in that video where choppy as well. I have no idea what I am doing wrong.

Carl Spackler · Oct 6, 2006

That's odd indeed. I'd try making a the movie shorter in lenth to be able to burn it to a single layer DVD. I'd want to know if those parts play the same on a single layer DVD.

LethalWolfe · Oct 6, 2006

To add to what Carl said, have you had problems playing burned DVDs in your stand alone players before? If you've switched what brand blank DVDs you use that could be it too.

Lethal

Stormybot · Oct 6, 2006

Wow. Thanks for replying so fast guys. I appreciate it.

Yes, this has always been the case with iDVD for me. Even on my 12" Powerbook when I just burned on regular single layer DVD's. So even DVD's that were less than an hour or a little longer have this issue. It's just that most of my home movies do not have a lot of fast motion. I even tried ripping and burning an episode of Star Trek The Next Generation that I own onto a single layer DVD as a test and during the fast parts, it was very choppy. For example, the beginning credits when the Enterprise flies by, it is choppy or when the planets fly by in the credits. And this is only on stand alone DVD players that are hooked up to TV's. One is brand new too. On my Mini, the DVD's play perfectly.

Anyways, these sports recordings have a lot more fast motion so now it is more obvious than ever. But iDVD has always done this to me and is doing it to me again on my Mac Mini.

Oh, and I am using Memorex DVD+R DL discs. They are these.

I was hoping that I was not alone and was hoping that it was just a fluke with my old Powerbook. But it is doing it on my new desktop too now.

Arnaud · Oct 7, 2006

Hi,

I can only confirm that I have the same problems (via iMovie and iDVD).

When I edit videos, from a camcorder or an analog source, the DV file goes ok on the mac, even the finished dvd is perfect on the mac BUT the finished DVD is choppy on a stand-alone player.

The videos are about Aikido, and the faster motion parts present a ghost effect, or something as if the frames were interverted (1-3-2-4, if that makes sense).

Well, all in all, not good.

No solution yet, but I'll work on my next project using Final Cut Express at a friend's, to see if it changes something ?

Suggestions welcome...

Stormybot · Oct 7, 2006

Arnaud said:
Hi,

I can only confirm that I have the same problems (via iMovie and iDVD).

When I edit videos, from a camcorder or an analog source, the DV file goes ok on the mac, even the finished dvd is perfect on the mac BUT the finished DVD is choppy on a stand-alone player.

The videos are about Aikido, and the faster motion parts present a ghost effect, or something as if the frames were interverted (1-3-2-4, if that makes sense).

Well, all in all, not good.

No solution yet, but I'll work on my next project using Final Cut Express at a friend's, to see if it changes something ?

Suggestions welcome...

Let me know if you figure out a solution. I know it is iDVD now because I used Toast 7 to create the DVD and it worked fine. I would just like to keep my iDVD menus because they look so nice.

LethalWolfe · Oct 7, 2006

What versions of iDVD are you guys using?

Lethal

Applespider · Oct 7, 2006

I do recall getting choppy video once - over transitions - in iDVD when using Best Performance. When I switched over to best quality, I got rid of those glitches.

However, I finally got round to burning a DVD in iDVD 6 last week in widescreen which led to some odd flickering along the edge of the black lines which wasn't there in the original footage. Very odd... I plan on re-rendering and burning to see if it happens again.

Arnaud · Oct 7, 2006

I use iLife'06, and I've been burning DVD's with 2 different burners (Imac's and external LaCie); I also burned via iDVD directly, or to a disc image, and then via Toast; no difference either with single or dual layer.

The setting is normally on Best Quality, I could try to switch it to Best Performance ?

But any new attempt takes some time...

But once again: the "faulty" dvd's run correctly on the iMac though, via DVD player.

DrRock · Oct 7, 2006

^

"Oh, and I am using Memorex DVD+R DL discs."

I have had nothing but problems with Memorex discs, CDs, DVD-Rs, DVD+Rs, whatever. On PC and Mac. I will never buy memorex again. I know some people have said they work just fine, but I stay away from them.

"the "faulty" dvd's run correctly on the iMac though, via DVD player."

I've had that problem. It has something to do with the disc image being created on the Mac, so the Mac player recognizes it and plays it just fine, but the disc doesn't work on an external player. My players give me the "no disc" or "bad" or "C: 00:13:00" or whatever message when I try to play the discs. This might be what's happening to you.

Arnaud · Oct 7, 2006

DrRock said:
"the "faulty" dvd's run correctly on the iMac though, via DVD player."

I've had that problem. It has something to do with the disc image being created on the Mac, so the Mac player recognizes it and plays it just fine, but the disc doesn't work on an external player.

I guessed that much. I just wish there were a fix somebody knew of.
And: it's not only from an image, also when burnt directly from iDVD.

Stormybot · Oct 8, 2006

Ok. I built a small project in iMovie (about 10 minutes of video) and used iDVD to create the menus and such. When I burn from iDVD 6, I get the choppy/ghost images. However, I took the exact same iMovie project and burned it from Toast 7, it plays beautifully. So it has to be something in iDVD, but I do not know what.

1) Is there any way to burn an iDVD project in Toast?
2) Is there any setting that I may be missing in iDVD?

Arnaud · Oct 8, 2006

Stormybot said:
Ok. I built a small project in iMovie (about 10 minutes of video) and used iDVD to create the menus and such. When I burn from iDVD 6, I get the choppy/ghost images. However, I took the exact same iMovie project and burned it from Toast 7, it plays beautifully. So it has to be something in iDVD, but I do not know what.

1) Is there any way to burn an iDVD project in Toast?
2) Is there any setting that I may be missing in iDVD?

Thanks for the test, it's pretty much what I expected, and you saved my time by doing it for us

How did you burn the iMovie project on Toast, did you export it as mpg or something first ?

I'm working for Pal output (as I live in Europe), can people confirm whether it's an NTSC/PAL related problem ? Are NTSC-users also concerned ?

Stormybot · Oct 8, 2006

Arnaud said:
Thanks for the test, it's pretty much what I expected, and you saved my time by doing it for us
How did you burn the iMovie project on Toast, did you export it as mpg or something first ?

I'm working for Pal output (as I live in Europe), can people confirm whether it's an NTSC/PAL related problem ? Are NTSC-users also concerned ?

I am using NTSC and have the same issues as you. If you put your iMovie project in your Movies folder, you can select it from Toast 7 to burn to a DVD and just use their menu styles. Sadly, they are not as fun as iDVD's styles but it does not look like Toast 7 can burn iDVD projects.

I wish iDVD would just work. My project looks horrible when burned from iDVD.

Dave00 · Oct 9, 2006

Applespider said:
I do recall getting choppy video once - over transitions - in iDVD when using Best Performance. When I switched over to best quality, I got rid of those glitches.

Usually when one gets problems with burned DVD's, especially with motion/moire, the Performance/Quality setting is the culprit (in my experience.) However, sounds like this was already addressed. Another concern would be the refresh rate on the viewing monitor. If your computer monitor has fast refresh and your TV model is an older LCD, you can see some significant degradation on fast motion. However, that again wouldn't explain the normal results from Toast. Hmm.

Dave

Stormybot · Oct 9, 2006

I would like to note that Arnaud is right. When burned in iDVD, the motion frame by frame is like this:

Frame 1
Frame 3
Frame 2
Frame 4
Etc.

When burned from Toast, it is better, but still like this:

Frame 1
Frame 1
Frame 2
Frame 2
Etc.

I am at a loss. No matter what I burn, it is like this.

Arnaud · Oct 9, 2006

Dave00 said:
If your computer monitor has fast refresh and your TV model is an older LCD, you can see some significant degradation on fast motion.

Ah! My TV is still a CRT model !!!

Sony 16/9, 32", it was great technology 3 years ago, and also quite expensive...
Oh well, it still works fine, and nobody will steal it...

Regarding the frames, I'm glad Stormybot confirms the "1-3-2-4" impression.
I'll do some re-encoding, with different settings, this week hopefully...

First one to get an answer, please don't forget us !

Stormybot · Oct 13, 2006

Arnaud said:
Ah! My TV is still a CRT model !!!
Sony 16/9, 32", it was great technology 3 years ago, and also quite expensive...
Oh well, it still works fine, and nobody will steal it...

Regarding the frames, I'm glad Stormybot confirms the "1-3-2-4" impression.
I'll do some re-encoding, with different settings, this week hopefully...

First one to get an answer, please don't forget us !

Any luck Arnaud? I had some better results with Toast, but I sure would like to be able to use iDVD's menus. No matter what I do, fast motion in DVD's created with iDVD are jittery.

Arnaud · Oct 15, 2006

Stormybot said:
Any luck Arnaud? I had some better results with Toast, but I sure would like to be able to use iDVD's menus. No matter what I do, fast motion in DVD's created with iDVD are jittery.

I haven't had enough time this week... and I'm away for the week-end (currently answering from my pda !!!).

I'm however thinking about what I should try first... Any test will take some time.

What could we focus on ?

Encoding with Toast an image created with idvd still presents the same issues, so it must be the proper encoding with idvd.

I usually import the imovie file in idvd, and let idvd do the whole job of encoding. Has anyone tried to import in idvd a movie created in imovie but exported first to, er, mpeg-1 or something ? I wonder if it's possible to skip a re-encoding of the movie files by idvd, so that it just builds the menus instead.

I've got some project coming up, that's a good opportunity to try. Maybe also with FCE for the import file.

Arnaud · Oct 18, 2006

...Just fooling around, but there's a setting in iMovie (Preferences / Playback / Quality), which could be close to our problem.

The setting "Highest (Field Blending)" seems to be doing what we are complaining about, i.e. blending the fields... Maybe "Standard" or "Better" would be accurate for fast-moving movies.

...Now, does it go so far as to reach a finalized DVD ? And it doesn't seem to explain why problems would not appear with dvd's burned with Toast.

Anyway, I'll give a try now to encoding with this setting. Never know

Arnaud · Oct 19, 2006

Hello, here is an update on my (lack of) progress.

My problems are usually happening with a dvd burnt:
- from a DV tape recorded with my DV camera,
- imported into iMovie (settings: project frame rate 29.97, playback Highest),
- then imported into iDVD and burnt either directly via iDVD or via an image and then Toast (settings: PAL, High Quality).

I tried to fumble the settings, on an already existing file, with:
- in iMovie, playback at standard (on the odd chance it'd be involved in the exported movie),
- in iDVD, the High Performance.
I burnt the DVD via image and then Toast.

The result is as much a problem as usual, besides my hopes

The active parts are choppy, just like usual - although the image, when mounted and played in DVDPlayer instead of my real dvd player & tv set, plays perfect and not choppy.

It seems to me that field blending / different frequencies is the culprit, but I don't know how to act on that. No settings available on my dvd player or my tv to change that.

My last point of hope, maybe: setting in iMovie a new project frame rate of 25fps, then create a new file and import from the dv tape. But that means re-importing my other files etc... (The project frame rate selection seems to be only for new projects, not an option on already-existing projects).

(...) Just checked the Help of iMovie, and this hope is gone too:

iMovie HD automatically detects whether your DV format is NTSC or PAL, and detects the frame rate of your camera, so you don't need to specify these items.

At times you may create a project that doesn't use a video camera as an input device. For example, you might create a slideshow of iPhoto images with transitions and music. In this case, you can specify the video format that you want the project to have (even though you're not importing from a video device.)

Oh rats...
Anybody luckier ?

Arnaud · Oct 19, 2006

Of interest:

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=694117&tstart=0

Arnaud · Oct 19, 2006

And another one, from this thread:
(The full context can be found in the forum).

...This material didn't exhibit the flickering problems, so the problem seems to be inherent in the transcoding from MPEG2 to DV...

It is possible that the path we chose (whatever-to-mpeg2-to-dv) mixes up some of the settings.

...But even if the source of the problem is found, and some steps might be skipped in the future (like trying to avoid DV, maybe by buying the Apple Mpeg-2 codec?), it doesn't tell me what to do with my 13 hours of already-edited footage and 5 consequent dvd's

Arnaud · Oct 21, 2006

...I'm the last one on this thread, but I use it to keep a log of my thoughts...

I tried using Toast instead of iDVD to import my iMovie file and burn a DVD. The result is much better: no choppy motion, and also better-looking titles (i.e., sharper).

I think that's the end of iDVD for me. It's sad though, I'd like to use a real all-in-one solution, iMovie-iDVD, as advertized for iLife, but the results of iDVD just don't provide the expected result.

Stormybot · Oct 26, 2006

Arnaud said:
...I'm the last one on this thread, but I use it to keep a log of my thoughts...

I tried using Toast instead of iDVD to import my iMovie file and burn a DVD. The result is much better: no choppy motion, and also better-looking titles (i.e., sharper).

I think that's the end of iDVD for me. It's sad though, I'd like to use a real all-in-one solution, iMovie-iDVD, as advertized for iLife, but the results of iDVD just don't provide the expected result.

Arnaud, Sorry that I left ya hanging there. I did previously try ALL of the things that you tried with no success. Using Toast made perfect video but I missed the cool menus that i could create in iDVD. But that was going to be my solution until I picked up a Canopus ADVC110 and used that to import the video from my camera or VCR or whatever. It imported into iMovie with no configuration, I was able to edit it, share to iDVD, create my menu and burn to a DVD. The result? PERFECT! So I have been using that. I guess iDVD didn't like things that were imported straight from Firewire or ripped from a DVD. So with the ADVC110 as the middle man, it did all the conversion for me and there is no choppy motion even during the fastest of scenes. The darn thing was about $200 on Amazon though but having already converted 5 full games to DVD with no issues or hassle, it was well worth it.

I don't know if this answers any of our questions on why Toast would be able to burn these videos fine but iDVD would not, but I know that I am much happier now with my Mac Mini.

Thanks for all of your input. I'm glad that I was not the only one having the issue because then it would mean that it was a problem with my Mini alone. Instead, it is something with iDVD I guess. But my solution helped me a lot.

iDVD and choppy video in the final product

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