Apple Eyeing Heat-Electricity Conversion Chip?

MacRumors · Nov 21, 2006, 05:01 PM

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The president and CEO of Eneco, a "development stage company" that claims to have developed a small chip that can convert heat into electricity, claims that he is in talks with both Apple and Dell regarding his company's technology.

First reported on an IT Week blog "Green Business News", Eneco claims that their chips can produce electricity from heat at up to 30% efficiency.

Quote:

The company says it is already in talks with both Dell and Apple about how the chips could be used in their devices. Initial talks have focused on integrating the heat conversion chips into the device so it can harness the heat generated by processors and turn it into electricity to power fans or other cooling technologies. By harnessing this power the devices, be they initially laptops and handhelds, or later even servers and PCs, should see improved energy efficiency, extended battery life and enhanced performance.

There are issues with the chip, as are to be expected from a development-stage product based on a new technology. At the present time, Eneco hopes to begin production late next year or early 2008.

amoda · Nov 21, 2006, 05:05 PM

That's actually pretty cool. And it's a good example of killing a bird with two stones. Not only does it take away the heat but it also uses the energy gained to reduce the heat remaining.

Wish my mbp cd had that in it

WildCowboy · Nov 21, 2006, 05:06 PM

Interesting concept, but their website scares me away in a hurry. What was that about making a good first impression?

mgargan1 · Nov 21, 2006, 05:08 PM

hmm... i wonder if they're a public company. If they can get rid of those problems, and what they're talking about actually works, then i think that company's stock will get pretty high

mgargan1 · Nov 21, 2006, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildCowboy

Interesting concept, but their website scares me away in a hurry. What was that about making a good first impression?

yea, their website looks like it was from 1998...

WildCowboy · Nov 21, 2006, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgargan1

hmm... i wonder if they're a public company. If they can get rid of those problems, and what they're talking about actually works, then i think that company's stock will get pretty high

No...they're not public.

sososowhat · Nov 21, 2006, 05:12 PM

I want to charge my MacBook from a campfire! Seriously, this is a very cool idea (please forgive the pun).

Quote:

Brown also sees the chips ultimately replacing batteries altogether. He argues that by linking the modules to a microburner - a catalytic burner that produces between 275 and 600 degrees centigrade – you can heat the chips and generate enough power to run the device.

aspro · Nov 21, 2006, 05:14 PM

Sounds like a good idea, can't complain with any increase to battery life!

bigandy · Nov 21, 2006, 05:17 PM

That sounds pretty cool - if it could be harnessed to charge from the heat developed by a processor, RAM, or even the battery itself...

mdntcallr · Nov 21, 2006, 05:19 PM

Wow! what a great concept.

Pretty much like some hybrid cars getting power from when they brake.

Some_Big_Spoon · Nov 21, 2006, 05:22 PM

Geeks rarely make purdy websites :-)

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildCowboy

Interesting concept, but their website scares me away in a hurry. What was that about making a good first impression?

EricNau · Nov 21, 2006, 05:23 PM

It's an interesting concept that could be very useful for many applications - although I'm doubting their current timeline.

lepidoptera · Nov 21, 2006, 05:25 PM

Wouldn't using the "extra" electricity to power fans to decrease heat lead to less "extra" electricity????

I hope they really think this through - and I'm sure they will. Of course powering fans isn't the only use for electricity.

ibook30 · Nov 21, 2006, 05:27 PM

this tech would have worked great in a powerbook G5......

PODshady · Nov 21, 2006, 05:28 PM

This is a really cool idea

theblotted · Nov 21, 2006, 05:28 PM

it could be same as flash technology. too expensive for actual implementation.

great idea tho. love recycling.

danielwsmithee · Nov 21, 2006, 05:28 PM

This could be very cool if it works. Just slap one of these between your processor and heat sink and get 30% more battery life. Or on desktops force cool your system without liquid.

backspinner · Nov 21, 2006, 05:31 PM

a problem will be that it needs a thermal difference to work

azraq27 · Nov 21, 2006, 05:35 PM

Here's my idea:

Hook up that chip, and then just keep overclocking the thing... you don't have to worry about it overheating and melting, it'll just give you more battery life.

It could go infinitely fast for infinitely long!

There's probably something in there about conduction and efficiency and stuff, but I'll leave that to the engineers

shawnce · Nov 21, 2006, 05:36 PM

Hate to say it but the website sure makes the company and product to be a bunch of BS... they make a lot of claims with little to back them up.

They may have a real and useful product but... man they could present it in a much better way.

justflie · Nov 21, 2006, 05:36 PM

If they can get it to work, engineers around the world will love them forever. Heat is always such a huge waste in any machinery, from computers to pumps to anything. The cost and environmental savings would be great if this tech (or something like it) can be effectively applied over a broad range of machinery!

Bosunsfate · Nov 21, 2006, 05:39 PM

At first read I was going to be skeptical....I mean isn't this just cold fusion?

Having read through the science on this now...we'll this is pretty interesting.

The main hurdle appears to be the actual application of this into some type of consumer device...and that being cost effective at the end of the day.

If this works out..yea, we are talking about some major changes....

Why are these guys in Utah though?

danielbriggs · Nov 21, 2006, 05:40 PM

This is nothing new...

I used those devices in last year for my GCSE courwork (15-16 yrs old). I used them in a drinks cooler / heat thingy.

I won't ramble on about my product, but: The devices are called "Thermo electric coolers. i.e. TEC's

And they offer 3 functions.

1. The cool something.
2. They heat something.
3. They produce electricity.

This heat / cooling effect is called the Peltier effect (some French guy) and some people call these things peltiers etc.

They work, buy passing a relativly large current 3-20 amps, depending on wattage. to draw heat from one side to another basically. one side is -10 degrees c. The other is +80 degrees c. However, if you don't power them and instead create a temperature difference, i.e. stick ontop of a hot computer chip. You wil have set up a temperature gradient. So it will generate electricity. Typically you get around 4ma per 1 degree C. So nothing huge, unless they have refined them. So in this case, the bigger the delta T, the more power. I guess it could power a fan then! Seem's easily possilbe, but I wouldn't expect battery life to be much more than 30 mins at most extra. As 1 fan doesn't draw THAT much power!

Still a good idea though!

If anyone else has any questions, on how they work, images, tech drawing, or my product, i'm happy to answer them all!

BTW: Forgot to add, the generating electricity idea, from one of these, is called the "Seebeck Effect"

Dan :-)

psionic001 · Nov 21, 2006, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lepidoptera

Wouldn't using the "extra" electricity to power fans to decrease heat lead to less "extra" electricity????

I hope they really think this through - and I'm sure they will. Of course powering fans isn't the only use for electricity.

I think that maybe you could think of this as something that harnesses the heat and slows the power drain from the battery for the same amount of heat produced by the cpu.

Of course they could use the extra power to provide a little more cooling to the chip, but only enough not to take the thermal difference (which generates the power in the first place) away. Now that makes it a lot clearer dosn't it!

Another cool idea would be to use one of those microscopic steam turbines. Steam turbines would remove heat and create power at the same time.... or was that some dream I had.

ChickenSwartz · Nov 21, 2006, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgargan1

yea, their website looks like it was from 1998...

They need to pick up a Mac and use iWeb. Ha ha.

Quote:

Originally Posted by backspinner

a problem will be that it needs a thermal difference to work

Which you can achieve by putting these between the processor and the aluminum casing.

Nov 21, 2006, 05:06 PM	#3
WildCowboy macrumors god Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: nowhere near the infinite loop anymore	Interesting concept, but their website scares me away in a hurry. What was that about making a good first impression? __________________ 15" 2.4 GHz MacBook Pro -- 15" 1.67 GHz PowerBook -- 14" 1.2 GHz iBook

Nov 21, 2006, 05:14 PM	#8
aspro macrumors 6502 Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Hobart, Australia	Sounds like a good idea, can't complain with any increase to battery life! __________________ 13" Macbook [2.16Ghz/2GB/120GB/Mac OSX 10.5.1/iPod classic 80GB]

Nov 21, 2006, 05:17 PM	#9
bigandy macrumors Demi-God Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Soho, London	That sounds pretty cool - if it could be harnessed to charge from the heat developed by a processor, RAM, or even the battery itself... __________________ "any day that involves cat pee is a really bad day" - iBlue ǝןƃooɹɯ

Nov 21, 2006, 05:19 PM	#10
mdntcallr macrumors 65816 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Los Angeles, CA	Wow! what a great concept. Pretty much like some hybrid cars getting power from when they brake. __________________ "Bite my Shiny Metal Ass!" Bender (Futurama)

Nov 21, 2006, 05:25 PM	#13
lepidoptera macrumors newbie Join Date: Nov 2006	interesting, but... Wouldn't using the "extra" electricity to power fans to decrease heat lead to less "extra" electricity???? I hope they really think this through - and I'm sure they will. Of course powering fans isn't the only use for electricity.

Nov 21, 2006, 05:05 PM	#2
amoda macrumors 6502 Join Date: Aug 2006	That's actually pretty cool. And it's a good example of killing a bird with two stones. Not only does it take away the heat but it also uses the energy gained to reduce the heat remaining. Wish my mbp cd had that in it

Nov 21, 2006, 05:08 PM	#4
mgargan1 macrumors 65816 Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Reston, VA	hmm... i wonder if they're a public company. If they can get rid of those problems, and what they're talking about actually works, then i think that company's stock will get pretty high

Nov 21, 2006, 05:23 PM	#12
EricNau macrumors Demi-God Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Sacramento, CA	It's an interesting concept that could be very useful for many applications - although I'm doubting their current timeline.

Nov 21, 2006, 05:27 PM	#14
ibook30 macrumors 6502a Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: 2,000 light years from home	this tech would have worked great in a powerbook G5...... __________________

Nov 21, 2006, 05:28 PM	#15
PODshady macrumors member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Springfield, IL	This is a really cool idea __________________ Some of My Apple Products: 8GB iPhone 15" MacBook Pro, 2.33GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 2GB DDR2 SDRAM, 200GB HD, Glossy Screen

Nov 21, 2006, 05:28 PM	#16
theblotted macrumors regular Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Los Angeles	it could be same as flash technology. too expensive for actual implementation. great idea tho. love recycling.

Nov 21, 2006, 05:28 PM	#17
danielwsmithee macrumors 6502 Join Date: Mar 2005	Fanless This could be very cool if it works. Just slap one of these between your processor and heat sink and get 30% more battery life. Or on desktops force cool your system without liquid.

Nov 21, 2006, 05:31 PM	#18
backspinner macrumors 6502a Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Eindhoven	a problem will be that it needs a thermal difference to work __________________ By all means, do not use a hammer.

Nov 21, 2006, 05:35 PM	#19
azraq27 macrumors newbie Join Date: Nov 2006	Hmmm... Here's my idea: Hook up that chip, and then just keep overclocking the thing... you don't have to worry about it overheating and melting, it'll just give you more battery life. It could go infinitely fast for infinitely long! There's probably something in there about conduction and efficiency and stuff, but I'll leave that to the engineers

Nov 21, 2006, 05:36 PM	#20
shawnce macrumors 65816 Join Date: Jun 2004	Wow... Hate to say it but the website sure makes the company and product to be a bunch of BS... they make a lot of claims with little to back them up. They may have a real and useful product but... man they could present it in a much better way. __________________ Steve Balmers the CEO of Microsoft... Dance Monkey, Developers!, The remix, The ad

Nov 21, 2006, 05:36 PM	#21
justflie macrumors 6502a Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Red Sox Nation	If they can get it to work, engineers around the world will love them forever. Heat is always such a huge waste in any machinery, from computers to pumps to anything. The cost and environmental savings would be great if this tech (or something like it) can be effectively applied over a broad range of machinery! __________________ 2 x 2.66 GHz 2009 Mac Pro, 6 GB RAM, GTX 285 ; 32GB iPhone 3GS

Nov 21, 2006, 05:39 PM	#22
Bosunsfate macrumors 6502 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: SF, CA	At first read I was going to be skeptical....I mean isn't this just cold fusion? Having read through the science on this now...we'll this is pretty interesting. The main hurdle appears to be the actual application of this into some type of consumer device...and that being cost effective at the end of the day. If this works out..yea, we are talking about some major changes.... Why are these guys in Utah though?

Nov 21, 2006, 05:40 PM	#23
danielbriggs macrumors 6502 Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Manchester, UK	This is nothing new... I used those devices in last year for my GCSE courwork (15-16 yrs old). I used them in a drinks cooler / heat thingy. I won't ramble on about my product, but: The devices are called "Thermo electric coolers. i.e. TEC's And they offer 3 functions. 1. The cool something. 2. They heat something. 3. They produce electricity. This heat / cooling effect is called the Peltier effect (some French guy) and some people call these things peltiers etc. They work, buy passing a relativly large current 3-20 amps, depending on wattage. to draw heat from one side to another basically. one side is -10 degrees c. The other is +80 degrees c. However, if you don't power them and instead create a temperature difference, i.e. stick ontop of a hot computer chip. You wil have set up a temperature gradient. So it will generate electricity. Typically you get around 4ma per 1 degree C. So nothing huge, unless they have refined them. So in this case, the bigger the delta T, the more power. I guess it could power a fan then! Seem's easily possilbe, but I wouldn't expect battery life to be much more than 30 mins at most extra. As 1 fan doesn't draw THAT much power! Still a good idea though! If anyone else has any questions, on how they work, images, tech drawing, or my product, i'm happy to answer them all! BTW: Forgot to add, the generating electricity idea, from one of these, is called the "Seebeck Effect" Dan :-)

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