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Old Jan 22, 2007, 08:43 PM   #1
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Running Mac OS X on Generic PCs with Parallels/VMWare?



CNN profiles the growing Mac virtualization market that allows Mac users to run Windows (and other Intel operating systems) on their Macs.

An interesting side effect of this virtualization software is that it suddenly has also become easier for PC users to run Mac OS X on their PCs

Quote:
VMware's CEO Diane Greene told me last week that her company's existing x86 desktop product is already being used by some to run Mac OS on computers from Dell (Charts), Hewlett-Packard (Charts) and others, though this is not intentional on VMware's part.
Parallels will reportedly be upgrading its software further "in a way that by coincidence will make it easier to run Mac OS on a non-Apple computer." It appears that both VMWare and Parallels have been "crippled" to satisfy demands from Apple that users not be encouraged to install Mac OS X on PCs. VMware's CEO says their initial shipment delay has been, in part, due to Apple's demands:

Quote:
"We were trying to do it the way they wanted to, but in hindsight we should have just gone ahead, I wonder what Steve Jobs is going to do, because there is so much pressure to run Mac OS on non-Macs. There's no technical reason not to do it. He's so proprietary about everything, yet it could be a very strategic move for him to make"
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Old Jan 22, 2007, 08:46 PM   #2
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copy cat!!!
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Old Jan 22, 2007, 08:46 PM   #3
darwen
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How is it a very strategic move? They make money on the hardware....
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Old Jan 22, 2007, 08:47 PM   #4
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I don't know much about programming or anything, but I thought there was something in the OS X code that binds Mac OS X to official Apple hardware. So if this is true, wouldn't it be illegal to run OS X in a virtual environment on a pc?
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Old Jan 22, 2007, 08:47 PM   #5
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What advantage does that really give you? You still have to have windows up. I guess ARD and server stuff might be cool to run.
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Old Jan 22, 2007, 08:48 PM   #6
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Please let me dual-boot on my PC! I'll always be in the market for a Mac with OSX, but running OSX on a PC would be awesome. Choose the best/most appropriate hardware and choose the best OS!
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Old Jan 22, 2007, 08:48 PM   #7
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I can see this subject from both angles. On one hand, this means that you don't have to buy an Apple branded computer which saves us money. However, Apple makes a lot of money off of their hardware so I can see where they want to keep it so it only runs on their hardware. I bet that Apple will put a stop to it. I thought that you couldn't run OS X on non-apple hardware anyways.
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Old Jan 22, 2007, 08:48 PM   #8
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I smell a lawsuit.

I can also see Apple doing some pretty fancy dancy stuff to prevent Mac OS from running on non-Apple hardware. I think Mac OS should stay on Macs.

I'm also sure that OS X won't run as well on Dells and HPs because of the difference in hardware (video cards, sound boards, etc)
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Old Jan 22, 2007, 08:51 PM   #9
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While I would love to be able to only deal with Mac OSX I will not sacrifice that for the loss Apple Hardware. I just hope this doesn't result in any loss of Apple sales. Although I doubt 99.9% of potential switchers would even consider doing something like this. It shouldn't affect Apple too much, just so long as it doesn't make a hit news story or something...
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Old Jan 22, 2007, 08:53 PM   #10
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If Apple really wanted to be evil, I bet the EULA of Mac OS X stipulates it can only be run on an actual Apple Computer and they could go out and sue individual users, or sue VMWare for making a product which purpose is to violate an EULA of another product.

Even if the EULA doesn't stipulate that, Apple will still sue someone.

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Old Jan 22, 2007, 08:56 PM   #11
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The squeaky squeak of tank treads?





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Old Jan 22, 2007, 08:56 PM   #12
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Steve Jobs at Macworld 2007:

"If you are serious about software you should make your own hardware"

Does he mean this, or is he bluffing?

This is an interesting story: Technology naturally evolves towards MacOS running on generic PCs. It is only market forces that prevent this from happening openly.

Technology vs. corporate policy: Which one will prevail?
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Old Jan 22, 2007, 08:59 PM   #13
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hmm would be intresting but wasnt there someting in the macs os code that will not let you run mac on windows
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Old Jan 22, 2007, 09:03 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macula View Post
Steve Jobs at Macworld 2007:

"If you are serious about software you should make your own hardware"

Does he mean this, or is he bluffing?

This is an interesting story: Technology naturally evolves towards MacOS running on generic PCs. It is only market forces that prevent this from happening openly.

Technology vs. corporate policy: Which one will prevail?


What can Apple sue over? The VMWare is just a virtual machine. When Apple decided to go with the Intel architecture they opened themselves up to this. There is no reason why VMWare or any other virtualization company should have to cripple their software to satisfy Apple. I see this as something good for the consumer, if Apple doesn't want people running OS X on non-Apple hardware then they should provide the consumer with incentives to not "switch back"
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Old Jan 22, 2007, 09:08 PM   #15
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hmm would be intresting but wasnt there someting in the macs os code that will not let you run mac on windows
That's the purpose of emulation. To emulate the hardware so that the software can run on top of it.
I really do hope that they stop trying to port osx to PC because that's apple's bread and butter, the mac hardware. Windows is hardware independent and runs on millions of configurations of hardware. OSX is coded to work best with one set of hardware configuration. I am so sick of PC and windows combo that I'm settling down with an iMac this week. Is it really worth having such an awesome OS like OSX if you cant run it natively on your PC? I mean the purpose (at least to me!!) of having emulated OS/software is to get teh functionality of some programs on one OS and be able to run it on another (eg. codeweavers, wine, cedega, etc). Not install Windows (and have to deal with its issues), and then run an OS on top of that.
I guess maybe if OSX had something on it that isn't available on windows (or even a "better" alternative), then yea I can see the point. My two cents and I will back Apple on this one.
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Old Jan 22, 2007, 09:09 PM   #16
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i think it would help apple to sell os x buy itself.....but i can see also why they don't want to do it.....
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Old Jan 22, 2007, 09:10 PM   #17
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There's totally technical reasons for not running OS X on any computer. Microsoft Windows driver hell. Microsoft has to keep up with hundreds of thousands of drivers and keep them all backward compatible. OS X is able to be stable as it is because it doesn't have to support a ton of drivers.
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Old Jan 22, 2007, 09:17 PM   #18
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If apple sold OS X for generic PCs, The price of OS X would go up tremendously! Apple already made a great deal of money off of you for the mac you will be installing it on, People will start buying old crap PCs, apple will loose money, OS X goes up in price, or apple faces the same thing they were in with (what was it) OS 7(?) where they licensed their OS, and apple almost died!

Do you really want to see that?
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Old Jan 22, 2007, 09:17 PM   #19
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.......and so it begins.
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Old Jan 22, 2007, 09:18 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justflie View Post
I don't know much about programming or anything, but I thought there was something in the OS X code that binds Mac OS X to official Apple hardware. So if this is true, wouldn't it be illegal to run OS X in a virtual environment on a pc?
You're making a rather large leap from talking about technology to legality. While I believe it is illegal in the US to circumvent copy protection, this is not copy protection, nor is everyone in the US. Some of us live in countries with much saner copyright laws.

Whether it is a violation of Apple's EULA remains to be seen, but from my understanding EULAs don't stand up in court anyway.
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Old Jan 22, 2007, 09:18 PM   #21
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Quote:
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How is it a very strategic move? They make money on the hardware....
My two cents...

Microsoft has been fairly successful as a purely software company

Apple isn't going to be able to control (stop) this now...so they should change course and make this a positive thing versus fighting a losing battle. They can if they choose to. Hopefully, Steve will remember how Apple (Steve) spit in Bill Gates' face many moons ago when Bill offered to get behind Apple's OS...not Windows. Bill went forward with Windows and we all know how that turned out.

Yes, Apple makes a lot of money off of hardware, but selling MILLIONS of copies of OS X would be a pretty huge chunk of change. Many times over the profits of hardware. Look at the profits of selling a kazillion iPods! I don't think Apple would lose a high percentage of Mac hardware users...BUT gain millions of OS X users.

Apple is moving out of being a niche company...seems to *me* like this could be THE move into the mainstream.

peace
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Old Jan 22, 2007, 09:20 PM   #22
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Currently there is NO WAY (that I can see..) of running OS X in a virtual machine even on a real mac.

Thats a REAL problem, especially if you're coding a driver or something, which is likely to hang the machine during testing.

This is exactly what a virtual machine is for, testing.

I say let apple open up OS X to everyone, yeah they'd lose SOME hardware sales, but only from the people that know how to build their own systems. 90% of the people out there want a 'computer', mac or pc, they don't care. They don't want to piss around building it, they just want a box they can look at and a board they can press keys on.

And.. what, ~95.3% of them bought PC's, and I bet only 70% of them actually care what operating system they run, and I get only 50% of them actually know what an operating system actually is. And even then I bet only 30% of them know the difference between OS X and windows.

And I bet only 10% have heard of linux.
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Old Jan 22, 2007, 09:21 PM   #23
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I know plenty of people who have built up PCs with similar components to Macs, so that they can run OS X with full driver-support, at a fraction of the price of an Apple desktop machine.

Cracks are available to allow OS X to run without any issues. Its use on beige boxes is pretty widespread among PC-using geeks.

But it is a breach of Apple's licensing conditions to run OS X on a PC, and there is no way I would want to do so, just in case Apple's lawyers decide to go on the offensive.
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Old Jan 22, 2007, 09:22 PM   #24
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Parallels will reportedly be upgrading its software further "in a way that by coincidence will make it easier to run Mac OS on a non-Apple computer."
Things have changed from just a couple of weeks ago at CES then, when Benjamin Rudolph stated in this video that while it's technically possible it won't be happening due to Apple's licensing policy of only allowing OSX to run in a non-virtual enviroment on Apple hardware.
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Old Jan 22, 2007, 09:24 PM   #25
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Got to have a choice.

Whether it is possible or not but one should always have a right to choose best hardware and software. Everybody knows PC hardware is much better (except the design part.) and Mac OS X is much better OS.
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