Apple Still Considering 3rd Party iPhone App Development?

MacRumors · May 11, 2007, 01:41 AM

One additional tidbit from Apple's shareholder meeting notes was a revealing blurb that Apple still hadn't completely decided whether or not they will open the iPhone to 3rd party developers.

Quote:

Jobs did acknowledge that the company is still struggling to decide if third-party developers will be able to create software that will run on the iPhone. It’s a decision Apple “is wrestling with,” according to Jobs.

Apple's choice to limit iPhone development has been the target of a lot of criticism against the iPhone. In the days after the iPhone announcement, Jobs stated that while you will be able to purchase and install additional applications on the iPhone, that this would be limited and in a "controlled environment". As a result, the iPhone has been described as a "closed device" which could make enterprise market penetration difficult.

Zwhaler · May 11, 2007, 01:44 AM

If Apple refuses to allow 3rd party apps, they better come up with some cool stuff in the future. But taking it that the iPhone runs OSX, it would almost be a waste to not allow 3rd party apps to go into the iPhone.

mcarnes · May 11, 2007, 01:50 AM

I think they should open it up, but just do it right. C'mon Apple, become the cell phone juggernaut like MS is with windows.

mlrproducts · May 11, 2007, 01:52 AM

If they made the OS right, they should have no problems opening it up. I mean, look at OS X, you can install tons of apps and it is still pretty hard to screw up vs. windows.

Object-X · May 11, 2007, 01:53 AM

I don't see how they can avoid it. The iPhone is going to start a whole new thing that will have compitition. The phone market is going to be a harder market to gain in than music players were. And you can be certain that the competition will have open platforms to write application and services. Does Apple want to compete against all that alone?

I think the iPhone needs to be looked at as a new platform. It's way more than a phone. The Internet communication part of this device is far more important than the phone, but it gets the least attention. It's the internet and the services that will grow up around the iPhone that will matter most.

Jouten · May 11, 2007, 01:54 AM

I hope Apple garners alot of 3rd party software developer support! It could rub off on to other hardware, like the computers and iPods.

GanleyBurger · May 11, 2007, 01:56 AM

.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't WIDGETS in OS X essentially already a platform for 3rd party stuff??? Macworld Widget, Lava Lamp Widget...

nagromme · May 11, 2007, 01:58 AM

Regardless, the processor in an iPhone appears to be ARM, not PPC or x86. No existing OS X apps will run unless recompiled for ARM. It would be great if Apple gives developers tools to do that.

It's a matter of two different strategies for a phone: make a rock-solid appliance or make a flexible platform. BOTH have real advantages.

I personally want to be able to install anything anyone comes up with!

On the other, hand for MOST phone users, rock-solid stability with ALL apps ALWAYS working alike is very important. Install some 3rd party app that crashes or accidentally messes with voicemail notification, and the iPhone experience is harmed. SOME of us can deal with that, but MOST people are best served by stability. An iPod is more stable than a Mac in part BECAUSE it is closed to third parties. And what about when Apple adds features or tweaks the OS, as the clearly plan to do? Updates would sometimes break 3rd-party apps and make iPhone customers unhappy. I wouldn't blame them for not opening these cans of worms.

I hope, though, that they find some compromise in the midd;e. Like letting advanced users unlock the phone to app installation, with a huge disclaimer. Or pre-screening all apps, requiring them to be done within strict requirements and allowing only the very best to be installed. Or allowing HTML-based widgets and nothing more. Or something that keeps the iPhone 110% stable while leaving some flexibility too.

(And remember that the iPhone is in many ways making a NEW niche with new rules, not necessarily trying to be a Blackberry or Palm replacement in their same existing markets.)

fblack · May 11, 2007, 01:58 AM

They could always start with a limited approach, like partnering with a few select companies. After all, they dont want to have people calling in to apple support everytime some 3rd party widget screws up their phone especially if phone communications is critical part of a business.

I think overall opening it up a bit to 3rd party apps might motivate people to buy an iphone.

GanleyBurger · May 11, 2007, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Object-X

The Internet communication part of this device is far more important than the phone, but it gets the least attention. It's the internet and the services that will grow up around the iPhone that will matter most.

How I'd love to be at an Estate Sale with an iphone, checking out current Ebay auction prices for stuff.

The internet on that thing looks so very cool.

nagromme · May 11, 2007, 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlrproducts

If they made the OS right, they should have no problems opening it up. I mean, look at OS X, you can install tons of apps and it is still pretty hard to screw up vs. windows.

"Pretty hard to screw up" is not good enough for a phone. I want my phone to be stable like my iPod--which NEVER fails. Not stable like my Mac which ALMOST never fails. At least when some game or utility crashes on my Mac, once in a blue moon, it doesn't stop me from getting a call that was arriving.

There's no foolproof way to open an OS to total freedom of app installation. There may, I hope, be some reasonable limits that allow SOME freedom.

msandersen · May 11, 2007, 02:01 AM

I think it could be the difference between a cool phone that will sell well initially and a great phone that will sell by the bucketload to business through 3rd party business mini-apps. Each business have their own specific needs, and the ability for small developers to provide mini-apps tailored to clients could make a huge difference. My brother makes a product for WindowsCE, which makes it useful for certain businesses where there otherwise would not be a need for such expensive devices; for sales people in the field and stock control alike, syncing with the central database on the go.
As my brother has said; the iPhone is irrelevant unless it allows 3rd party apps. Well, that's his vieew as a Windows person, but if Apple encouraged 3rd party developers, and his customers asked them to tailor their product for iPhones, then they would become OSX developers all of a sudden, selling hundreds of units with their product installed.

fblack · May 11, 2007, 02:08 AM

Nagromme makes some good points. The dell axim I use is a pain. We've had our apps upgraded several times because they were seriously dragging performance down. Stability is a serious issue and they would need to keep some kind of quality control on 3rd party apps at least at the begining...

msandersen · May 11, 2007, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fblack

They could always start with a limited approach, like partnering with a few select companies.

That's pretty much what their stated position has been to date; a few select 3rd party apps approved my apple. The question is whether to open it up more, to allow "non-official" apps to be installed. I think yes, provided a certain level of quality control is maintained, and the system can deal with misbehaving apps, so the phone itself doesn't crash, just the 3rd-party app. Hence people will know who to blame.

dashiel · May 11, 2007, 02:23 AM

i think jobs is being coy so he can make a big announcement at the WWDC.

i don't think we'll get full fledged apps, but rather a second generation dashboard widget. i know people write of widgets as just html/javascript, but they're pretty powerful considering they can interact with objective-c and command line utilities.

who knows maybe this new internet plugin apple's been developing will be part of it.

dashboard already plays in its own separate sandbox...

CrackedButter · May 11, 2007, 02:32 AM

I find it interesting that 3rd party development is such an issue for a device with no market penetration. None of this excitement is associated with the Mac, what with all its cool technologies which has MORE of a market share no matter how small.

But maybe its something to do with the simplicity of the iPhone device, it being small and confined, apps won't be as large of course as they would be on the Mac.

I wish there was this much hoopla over Mac software development.

dashiel · May 11, 2007, 02:33 AM

so what 3rd party apps do you guys want? at first i was really into/disappointed with the whole no 3rd party thing... then i started to think what apps would i really want on my phone and was surprised at how few i really did want/need.

ibiz mini - something for those rare occasions when i'm out at a client so i can keep track of my time
skype - or ichat mobile with VOIP
keynote presenter - hardware/software combo; load up your keynote, hook up a small widget to the projector. iphone beams the keynote to the widget.
alias sketchbook mini - pared down version.. maybe called alias fingerpaint
omni outline
?tv remote

Brandon Sharitt · May 11, 2007, 02:36 AM

I'd be surprised if we were to see an open 3rd party ecosystem or "real" native appps, but I wouldn't be shocked to either see widgets on steroids or some sort of sandboxed managed code solution. I just hope it's opened to all, not just a handful of partners like the iPod is.

dante@sisna.com · May 11, 2007, 02:54 AM

It is pretty anoying when my Blackberry crashes due to a third party app -- ususally right when you want to make a call.

The reboot is twice as long -- at least -- as my G5 Quad.

TheBobcat · May 11, 2007, 03:12 AM

I can't imagine that Jobs cares about this since people have complained about it. Popular sentiment has never seemed to deter Apple before. I bet it's at&t pushing it since they want the big corporate accounts with iPhone, or any other reason that they might want a more open environment for it.

iJawn108 · May 11, 2007, 03:27 AM

If iPhone development opens up, iPhone widgets would be my new hobby.

jbernie · May 11, 2007, 03:37 AM

Apple may not necessarily be able to make the decision as it could be made for them. There are a few other phones with similar looks etc coming to the market shortly, if they are open and there are plenty of apps created for them then the market may ignore the iPhone unless Apple opens it up.

Definately it is not a simple/easy decision to make and I won't criticize Apple for not rushing it, the closed environment ensures the users experience is the best possible by way of stability, an open environment allows the device to be used to its full potential.

If nothing else hopefully the current games for iPod are easily ported over to the iPhone so there are some apps ready regardless of their business function.

Also, the phone networks will want an open platform of some sort so at least in the USA they can charge a decent amount of $$$ for the uer to download content.

the.snitch · May 11, 2007, 03:44 AM

They definately need to open it up. Sure, apple makes great software, but they can't cover 100% of every user's needs. Imagine if we could only run apple software on our mac. We would be able to do the basic stuff, but we would be missing out on so much more.

Apple needs to have faith in their developers. There are so many great third party mac devs, and I'm sure they are full of great ideas to implement on the iphone. GTD apps, google calendar syncing, ftp clients, IM clients etc etc.

If it's truely "running OS X" like they say, it should be simple to add support to cocoa apps. This would also limit the developers to the more experienced mac developers (which in my opinion, generally have higher quality standards than your average MS .NET developer), and I'm sure we will see before long a huge 3rd party following.
The 3rd party software market for the iPhone has the potential to be bigger than the 3rd party accessory market for the iPod.

I'm hoping Apple makes a formal announcement at WWDC, embracing mac developers, and adding an official iPhone SDK to Xcode 3.

Marx55 · 04:34 AM

We need to run Microsoft Office, Eudora Mail and some other applications in the iPhone. That is a must for us or else we will look elsewhere! Best of all if they run as native applications using the same native files used on any Mac. That coupled with wireless presentation capabilities will make the iPhone a best seller, even having a model without phone capatibilites but having the other features. We will purchase thousands for our University.

Jarcrew · May 11, 2007, 04:07 AM

I reckon it'll be like iPod games and widgets - they have to go through Apple. I know I'd rather play Pac Man or bowling or whatever on an iPhone than an iPod.

May 11, 2007, 01:54 AM	#6
Jouten macrumors newbie Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Alaska	I hope so I hope Apple garners alot of 3rd party software developer support! It could rub off on to other hardware, like the computers and iPods.

May 11, 2007, 01:56 AM	#7
GanleyBurger macrumors regular Join Date: Feb 2007	. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't WIDGETS in OS X essentially already a platform for 3rd party stuff??? Macworld Widget, Lava Lamp Widget... __________________ "Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read!" G. Marx

May 11, 2007, 01:58 AM	#8
nagromme macrumors 601 Join Date: May 2002 Location: Blinking blue dot	Regardless, the processor in an iPhone appears to be ARM, not PPC or x86. No existing OS X apps will run unless recompiled for ARM. It would be great if Apple gives developers tools to do that. It's a matter of two different strategies for a phone: make a rock-solid appliance or make a flexible platform. BOTH have real advantages. I personally want to be able to install anything anyone comes up with! On the other, hand for MOST phone users, rock-solid stability with ALL apps ALWAYS working alike is very important. Install some 3rd party app that crashes or accidentally messes with voicemail notification, and the iPhone experience is harmed. SOME of us can deal with that, but MOST people are best served by stability. An iPod is more stable than a Mac in part BECAUSE it is closed to third parties. And what about when Apple adds features or tweaks the OS, as the clearly plan to do? Updates would sometimes break 3rd-party apps and make iPhone customers unhappy. I wouldn't blame them for not opening these cans of worms. I hope, though, that they find some compromise in the midd;e. Like letting advanced users unlock the phone to app installation, with a huge disclaimer. Or pre-screening all apps, requiring them to be done within strict requirements and allowing only the very best to be installed. Or allowing HTML-based widgets and nothing more. Or something that keeps the iPhone 110% stable while leaving some flexibility too. (And remember that the iPhone is in many ways making a NEW niche with new rules, not necessarily trying to be a Blackberry or Palm replacement in their same existing markets.) __________________ nagromme Would you like a treatment?

May 11, 2007, 01:58 AM	#9
fblack macrumors 6502 Join Date: May 2006 Location: USA	A limited open phone might be good... They could always start with a limited approach, like partnering with a few select companies. After all, they dont want to have people calling in to apple support everytime some 3rd party widget screws up their phone especially if phone communications is critical part of a business. I think overall opening it up a bit to 3rd party apps might motivate people to buy an iphone.

May 11, 2007, 02:01 AM	#12
msandersen macrumors member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Sydney, Australia	I think it could be the difference between a cool phone that will sell well initially and a great phone that will sell by the bucketload to business through 3rd party business mini-apps. Each business have their own specific needs, and the ability for small developers to provide mini-apps tailored to clients could make a huge difference. My brother makes a product for WindowsCE, which makes it useful for certain businesses where there otherwise would not be a need for such expensive devices; for sales people in the field and stock control alike, syncing with the central database on the go. As my brother has said; the iPhone is irrelevant unless it allows 3rd party apps. Well, that's his vieew as a Windows person, but if Apple encouraged 3rd party developers, and his customers asked them to tailor their product for iPhones, then they would become OSX developers all of a sudden, selling hundreds of units with their product installed. __________________ People who are willing to give up freedom for the sake of short term security, deserve neither freedom nor security. -Benjamin Franklin

May 11, 2007, 01:44 AM	#2
Zwhaler macrumors 68040 Join Date: Jun 2006	If Apple refuses to allow 3rd party apps, they better come up with some cool stuff in the future. But taking it that the iPhone runs OSX, it would almost be a waste to not allow 3rd party apps to go into the iPhone.

May 11, 2007, 01:50 AM	#3
mcarnes macrumors 68000 Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: USA! USA!	I think they should open it up, but just do it right. C'mon Apple, become the cell phone juggernaut like MS is with windows.

May 11, 2007, 01:52 AM	#4
mlrproducts macrumors 6502 Join Date: Apr 2004	If they made the OS right, they should have no problems opening it up. I mean, look at OS X, you can install tons of apps and it is still pretty hard to screw up vs. windows.

May 11, 2007, 01:53 AM	#5
Object-X macrumors 6502a Join Date: Aug 2004	I don't see how they can avoid it. The iPhone is going to start a whole new thing that will have compitition. The phone market is going to be a harder market to gain in than music players were. And you can be certain that the competition will have open platforms to write application and services. Does Apple want to compete against all that alone? I think the iPhone needs to be looked at as a new platform. It's way more than a phone. The Internet communication part of this device is far more important than the phone, but it gets the least attention. It's the internet and the services that will grow up around the iPhone that will matter most.

May 11, 2007, 02:08 AM	#13
fblack macrumors 6502 Join Date: May 2006 Location: USA	Nagromme makes some good points. The dell axim I use is a pain. We've had our apps upgraded several times because they were seriously dragging performance down. Stability is a serious issue and they would need to keep some kind of quality control on 3rd party apps at least at the begining...

May 11, 2007, 02:23 AM	#15
dashiel macrumors 6502 Join Date: Nov 2003	i think jobs is being coy so he can make a big announcement at the WWDC. i don't think we'll get full fledged apps, but rather a second generation dashboard widget. i know people write of widgets as just html/javascript, but they're pretty powerful considering they can interact with objective-c and command line utilities. who knows maybe this new internet plugin apple's been developing will be part of it. dashboard already plays in its own separate sandbox...

May 11, 2007, 02:32 AM	#16
CrackedButter macrumors 68030 Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: 51st State of America	I find it interesting that 3rd party development is such an issue for a device with no market penetration. None of this excitement is associated with the Mac, what with all its cool technologies which has MORE of a market share no matter how small. But maybe its something to do with the simplicity of the iPhone device, it being small and confined, apps won't be as large of course as they would be on the Mac. I wish there was this much hoopla over Mac software development. __________________ "Absorb what is useful, Discard what is not, Add what is uniquely your own" - Bruce Lee http://jonathanjk.viewbook.com/

May 11, 2007, 02:33 AM	#17
dashiel macrumors 6502 Join Date: Nov 2003	so what 3rd party apps do you guys want? at first i was really into/disappointed with the whole no 3rd party thing... then i started to think what apps would i really want on my phone and was surprised at how few i really did want/need. ibiz mini - something for those rare occasions when i'm out at a client so i can keep track of my time skype - or ichat mobile with VOIP keynote presenter - hardware/software combo; load up your keynote, hook up a small widget to the projector. iphone beams the keynote to the widget. alias sketchbook mini - pared down version.. maybe called alias fingerpaint omni outline ?tv remote

May 11, 2007, 02:36 AM	#18
Brandon Sharitt macrumors 6502a Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Osan AB, Korea	I'd be surprised if we were to see an open 3rd party ecosystem or "real" native appps, but I wouldn't be shocked to either see widgets on steroids or some sort of sandboxed managed code solution. I just hope it's opened to all, not just a handful of partners like the iPod is. __________________ A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without bricks tied to its head. My Blog Junetech ConfusedYeti

May 11, 2007, 02:54 AM	#19
dante@sisna.com macrumors 6502a Join Date: Apr 2006	If it crashes like my Blackberry I'll be bummed It is pretty anoying when my Blackberry crashes due to a third party app -- ususally right when you want to make a call. The reboot is twice as long -- at least -- as my G5 Quad.

May 11, 2007, 03:12 AM	#20
TheBobcat macrumors 6502 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: East Lansing, Michigan	I can't imagine that Jobs cares about this since people have complained about it. Popular sentiment has never seemed to deter Apple before. I bet it's at&t pushing it since they want the big corporate accounts with iPhone, or any other reason that they might want a more open environment for it. __________________ We are the Macintosh. Lower your firewall, and surrender your PC. We will add your cultural distinctiveness to our own. Resistance is futile.

May 11, 2007, 03:27 AM	#21
iJawn108 macrumors 65816 Join Date: Apr 2006	If iPhone development opens up, iPhone widgets would be my new hobby. __________________ Black MacBook \| Core Duo 2 GHz \| 2 GB Ram \| 320 GB HDD \| OS X Snow Leopard 10.6 - iPod Touch \| 16 GB Camino OpenSolaris

May 11, 2007, 03:37 AM	#22
jbernie macrumors 6502a Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Denver, CO	Apple may not necessarily be able to make the decision as it could be made for them. There are a few other phones with similar looks etc coming to the market shortly, if they are open and there are plenty of apps created for them then the market may ignore the iPhone unless Apple opens it up. Definately it is not a simple/easy decision to make and I won't criticize Apple for not rushing it, the closed environment ensures the users experience is the best possible by way of stability, an open environment allows the device to be used to its full potential. If nothing else hopefully the current games for iPod are easily ported over to the iPhone so there are some apps ready regardless of their business function. Also, the phone networks will want an open platform of some sort so at least in the USA they can charge a decent amount of $$$ for the uer to download content.

May 11, 2007, 03:44 AM	#23
the.snitch macrumors regular Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Auckland, NZ	They definately need to open it up. Sure, apple makes great software, but they can't cover 100% of every user's needs. Imagine if we could only run apple software on our mac. We would be able to do the basic stuff, but we would be missing out on so much more. Apple needs to have faith in their developers. There are so many great third party mac devs, and I'm sure they are full of great ideas to implement on the iphone. GTD apps, google calendar syncing, ftp clients, IM clients etc etc. If it's truely "running OS X" like they say, it should be simple to add support to cocoa apps. This would also limit the developers to the more experienced mac developers (which in my opinion, generally have higher quality standards than your average MS .NET developer), and I'm sure we will see before long a huge 3rd party following. The 3rd party software market for the iPhone has the potential to be bigger than the 3rd party accessory market for the iPod. I'm hoping Apple makes a formal announcement at WWDC, embracing mac developers, and adding an official iPhone SDK to Xcode 3.

May 11, 2007, 04:04 AM	#24
Marx55 macrumors 6502a Join Date: Jan 2005	We need to run Microsoft Office, Eudora Mail and some other applications in the iPhone. That is a must for us or else we will look elsewhere! Best of all if they run as native applications using the same native files used on any Mac. That coupled with wireless presentation capabilities will make the iPhone a best seller, even having a model without phone capatibilites but having the other features. We will purchase thousands for our University. Last edited by Marx55 : May 11, 2007 at 04:34 AM.

May 11, 2007, 04:07 AM	#25
Jarcrew macrumors regular Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Cardiff, Wales	I reckon it'll be like iPod games and widgets - they have to go through Apple. I know I'd rather play Pac Man or bowling or whatever on an iPhone than an iPod. __________________ My eyes! The goggles do nothing!

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