Class Action Lawsuit over Apple MB and MBP Displays?

[SpaceJello]

Hey came across this, and thought it is interesting and would love to see how this turns out. For one, I am sure many of us have had the same problems with our displays.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/05/18/a...-action-lawsu/

[Mpulsive81]

Originally Posted by SpaceJello

Hey came across this, and thought it is interesting and would love to see how this turns out. For one, I am sure many of us have have the same problems with our displays.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/05/18/a...-action-lawsu/

Some of those responses come from straight up drama queens. Kids these days...

[Abstract]

^^^Exactly.

It's ridiculous, especially the bit about the LCD not being able to display 16 million colours. Someone should tell them that most/all laptop LCD screens don't display that many colours. It's not Apple's fault that the technology isn't there. It's not available for any laptop maker. Even the new LED LCD displays for laptops are only 6-bit, not 8-bit.

Apple isn't the only one facing these problems regarding LCD screens. Lots of other companies like Compaq are facing the same problems regarding graininess and backlight unevenness. Blame it on the limitations of the technology, but blaming Apple seems like the easier way out.

And whatever happened to getting a refund? Don't like the product? Return it and get something else. But no, lets keep the product and see how much we can get in compensation.

[LordTurtle]

Originally Posted by Abstract

^^^Exactly.

It's ridiculous, especially the bit about the LCD not being able to display 16 million colours. Someone should tell them that most/all laptop LCD screens don't display that many colours. It's not Apple's fault that the technology isn't there. It's not available for any laptop maker. Even the new LED LCD displays for laptops are only 6-bit, not 8-bit.

Apple isn't the only one facing these problems regarding LCD screens. Lots of other companies like Compaq are facing the same problems regarding graininess and backlight unevenness. Blame it on the limitations of the technology, but blaming Apple seems like the easier way out.

I completely disagree.

Apple (and any other makers) should admit the facts about these displays when customers enquire or even complain ...

(1) "Millions of colors" on their website means 6-bit not 8-bit ... pros are very annoyed that the dithering occurs and affects them working in their graphics programs

(2) Anti-glare coatings are visible and make the displays look slightly grainy

If Apple stated (1 and 2) up front, then customers could not complain.
But the fact that Apple DOES NOT provide this information AND DENIES these issues exist when questioned should be scruntised.

[riotshield]

While I think anyone who needs an 8-bit panel should do their homework and find out exactly what "support for millions of colors" means before they buy, it does seem misleading on the part of Apple to word it like that. 6-bit is 262,144 colors, no where near a million. But I guess they're no less guilty than manufacturers who advertise "16.2 million colors."

[Diatribe]

Originally Posted by riotshield

While I think anyone who needs an 8-bit panel should do their homework and find out exactly what "support for millions of colors" means before they buy, it does seem misleading on the part of Apple to word it like that. 6-bit is 262,144 colors, no where near a million. But I guess they're no less guilty than manufacturers who advertise "16.2 million colors."

As if Apple is the only company doing this...

[Smurfed]

Originally Posted by LordTurtle

I completely disagree.

Apple (and any other makers) should admit the facts about these displays when customers enquire or even complain ...

(1) "Millions of colors" on their website means 6-bit not 8-bit ... pros are very annoyed that the dithering occurs and affects them working in their graphics programs

(2) Anti-glare coatings are visible and make the displays look slightly grainy

If Apple stated (1 and 2) up front, then customers could not complain.
But the fact that Apple DOES NOT provide this information AND DENIES these issues exist when questioned should be scruntised.

Yeah, Apple these days haven't been all that great, like they were back in the old days.

If you took a look at the Grainy display thread, the grainyness varies, Some users in this forum had VERY grainy screens on the 15' MBPs that actually started to make their eyes hurt after looking at the screen for too long.

[bearbo]

Just because Apple isn't the only one doing it, does not mean Apple is not at fault.

[mcarnes]

Originally Posted by bearbo

Just because Apple isn't the only one doing it, does not mean Apple is not at fault.

Totally agree. We should all sue Apple, with all the crap they pull. Smudges on iMacs. MBPs that get warm. It's frickin insane.

[CJD2112]

Originally Posted by Diatribe

As if Apple is the only company doing this...

and this justifies Apple's behavior? in that case, any one can do something wrong and say "well, they're doing it too!"

[ChrisA]

Originally Posted by Abstract

It's not Apple's fault that the technology isn't there. It's not available for any laptop maker. Even the new LED LCD displays for laptops are only 6-bit, not 8-bit.

If in fact Apple is using 6-bit displays they need to say it. I just read the tech specs on Apple's web site and it says "millions" of colors. A 6-bit display can only show 2^18 colors. That works out 1/4 million colors. "saying "milions" is not true and they should be made to compensate people if in fact they are using 6-bit displays. I don't know what kind of displays they really are using but I would sure as anything assume it's 8-bit if I read the tech specs page at Apple.com

Dithering is NOT making more colors. If I show you a red dot and then a yellow dot I've not shown you an orange dot. But using Apple's (alleged) math Apple would claim to have shown you three colors. Dithering does not count. (pun intended)

[luis911]

Originally Posted by CJD2112

and this justifies Apple's behavior? in that case, any one can do something wrong and say "well, they're doing it too!"

Yea some people Just have that "follower" mentality. I say we all sue apple and Demand them to give us all one mac Pro and Macbook Pro ...This will not only bring down their company but also encourage them to start making their own screens for quality control!!! im suing tomorow...whos with me?

[Sutekidane]

The Chimei screen on my core2duo 15" MacBook pro isn't too good. I mean, visually it's fine to me, but it keeps getting dust trapped under the screen and it's really distracting. It seems to get worse each time I go to use it. I had this problem back in February, and they replaced the display no questions asked... but now this new one is having the same issues and it's getting worse every day. :-( I've never had this issue with any of my other laptops.

[gnasher729]

Originally Posted by riotshield

While I think anyone who needs an 8-bit panel should do their homework and find out exactly what "support for millions of colors" means before they buy, it does seem misleading on the part of Apple to word it like that. 6-bit is 262,144 colors, no where near a million. But I guess they're no less guilty than manufacturers who advertise "16.2 million colors."

However, two pixels side by side can represent any of 127^3 colors, which is just a little bit more than two million colors, which makes it "millions of colors". And you can't sue Apple for advertising "16.2 million colors" when they actually don't.

[gnasher729]

Originally Posted by ChrisA

Dithering is NOT making more colors. If I show you a red dot and then a yellow dot I've not shown you an orange dot. But using Apple's (alleged) math Apple would claim to have shown you three colors. Dithering does not count. (pun intended)

I hope you realise that any pixel that you see on any LCD screen is actually the result of dithering of one pure red, one pure green and one pure blue pixel.

[/dev/toaster]

Oh give me a break. The display is very damn good. They are just being picky and trying to get something for free.

[keenkreations]

Guess I have to see what happens with this whole class action lawsuit. I always wondered what happen with the iPod Nano lawsuit. From what I heard, Apple started including crummy sleeves with the products. So I guess Apple might change a few words here and there to prevent false advertising. But that's just my two cents.

[MoparShaha]

This is great news. As a student who dropped $2500 on a MBP with a substandard display, I'm glad someone is stepping up and challenging Apple. At the very least, I want Apple to realize they can't sell poor quality products for such a high price, and at most, I'd like a replacement screen.

I know this topic is a point of contention, amongst both owners of the MBP and those who don't have one. All I have to say is, if it's come to a class action lawsuit over this issue, I hope the naysayers finally realize we're not all crazy or overly picky.

[babyjenniferLB]

for a 2 grand laptop i want a perfict display and case and current technology, apple mite move a little with someone sueing them for the display issues.

[Digital Skunk]

Originally Posted by bearbo

Just because Apple isn't the only one doing it, does not mean Apple is not at fault.

Yeah... it means every laptop maker in the world is at fault. PC users don't complain about their LCDs because their machines are cheap to begin with. But Apple should build their stuff to higher standards. I haven't had any problems with my LCD that would get me up in arms about the MBP quality, but if people are complaining then Apple really should do something about the displays. They did something about the battery issues mainly because they exploded in your face, but LCDs should get the same treatment, as the rest of the computer.

So I think.

[iW00t]

I won't defend Apple on this, the screens they use on the 15" MBPs are truly pathetic. If anything I hope they will be more diligent in the future when it comes to sourcing for components.

Originally Posted by riotshield

While I think anyone who needs an 8-bit panel should do their homework and find out exactly what "support for millions of colors" means before they buy, it does seem misleading on the part of Apple to word it like that. 6-bit is 262,144 colors, no where near a million. But I guess they're no less guilty than manufacturers who advertise "16.2 million colors."

We are Mac users, we are not even supposed to know what Santa Rosa or even "Intel" is prior to the Intel switch over. Now we are suppose to know that screen LCX93948288492938 is a 6 bit panel?

Get bent. Seriously.

[PDE]

Originally Posted by ChrisA

If in fact Apple is using 6-bit displays they need to say it. I just read the tech specs on Apple's web site and it says "millions" of colors. A 6-bit display can only show 2^18 colors. That works out 1/4 million colors. "saying "milions" is not true and they should be made to compensate people if in fact they are using 6-bit displays. I don't know what kind of displays they really are using but I would sure as anything assume it's 8-bit if I read the tech specs page at Apple.com

Dithering is NOT making more colors. If I show you a red dot and then a yellow dot I've not shown you an orange dot. But using Apple's (alleged) math Apple would claim to have shown you three colors. Dithering does not count. (pun intended)

They ARE using 6 bit displays. I checked and looked the panel up and so have many others. There is no doubt that they are using 6 bit panels at all.

[Forced Perfect]

Funny how people are complaining about this stuff. Yeah, they might not show 16.7 million colours, but there is something to be said about the "everyone else is doing it" thing because that's what people see. Does anyone remember convincing their friends that a 266 MHz G3 can outrun a ~333 MHz PII? I sure do. People only see the numbers and say "Hey, if I get this Dell I get more speed", or colours in this case. I've never seen an LCD marked as being 6-bit 1/4 million colours. They're always 16.7 million.

I'd like Apple to be honest just as long as everyone else does the same - or at least is convinced about their lies.

I don't recall people trying to sue over dual-scan colour displays being crap. Now those sucked. As did any passive screen (obviously).

[unigolyn]

Originally Posted by ChrisA

Dithering is NOT making more colors. If I show you a red dot and then a yellow dot I've not shown you an orange dot.

Uh, how do you think CRTs work? They show you a green, red, and blue dot each of which has 256 possible states of brightness, which are then interpreted by the human eye as colors. The fact that there are 16.7 million possible states for each three-dot pixel to be doesn't actually mean there are 16.7 million colors. That would require that every pixel be capable of emitting light in 16.7 million different wavelengths, not combinations of three particular wavelengths.

Any color not red, green, or blue perceived from a CRT pixel is an optical illusion to begin with. Dithering is simply using several pixels to create the illusion. Like gnasher said, two 6-bit RGB pixels can, using dithering, mathematically produce over two million colors. Therefore, Apple's (or any LCD manufacturer's) claim of "millions" of colors is just as valid as a CRT manufacturers claim of 16.7 million colors. According to the real-world physical definition of color, meaning light wavelength, both are really only capable of THREE colors.

This law suit should be thrown out of court.

[Forced Perfect]

Originally Posted by unigolyn

Uh, how do you think CRTs work? They show you a green, red, and blue dot each of which has 256 possible states of brightness, which are then interpreted by the human eye as colors. The fact that there are 16.7 million possible states for each three-dot pixel to be doesn't actually mean there are 16.7 million colors. That would require that every pixel be capable of emitting light in 16.7 million different wavelengths, not combinations of three particular wavelengths.

Any color not red, green, or blue perceived from a CRT pixel is an optical illusion to begin with. Dithering is simply using several pixels to create the illusion. Like gnasher said, two 6-bit RGB pixels can, using dithering, mathematically produce over two million colors. Therefore, Apple's (or any LCD manufacturer's) claim of "millions" of colors is just as valid as a CRT manufacturers claim of 16.7 million colors. According to the real-world physical definition of color, meaning light wavelength, both are really only capable of THREE colors.

This law suit should be thrown out of court.

Absolutely true. But on one hand needing two pixels to get the same colour range as one must compromise quality. I think that's the point he's trying to make.