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Old May 27, 2007, 11:39 PM   #1
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What do you think is the best solution for organized crime? (drug-dealers)

Right now in Mexico we are having a huge conflict with the organized crime. In this year there have been 75 killings in my city, and in the whole country like 1000 deaths.

And the problem just seems to become bigger with time. The police is corrupt, the army is inefficient, and our president does not has the guts to take big decisions.

There have been very little apprehensions of drug-dealers. The police fears them. Any policemen that gets involved in an apprehension of a drug-dealer is killed within the week.

Just to give a little of background of the drug-dealers in Mexico: The drugs market generates about 70 billion dollars in Mexico, and 322 billions in USA. And the heads of the drug organizations reside in Mexico, so this guys have a HUGE amount of money in their hands to buy politicians and the police.
Right now the army is taking control of some cities (not mine thankfully) to control the drug-dealers, but without many results.

For me the solutions are two:

1- You start killing them in the streets, with the possibility that some innocent people will die. This is to make people fear to join the drug-dealers.

2- Legalize drugs. This must include both USA and Mexico. And legalizing to the point that you can get very cheap drug in the supermarket without problems. This obviously could bring a lot of addiction problems.

So, what do you think is the best way to end with organized crime?
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Old May 27, 2007, 11:43 PM   #2
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I vote for number two- it worked with alcohol.
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Old May 27, 2007, 11:49 PM   #3
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I vote for number two- it worked with alcohol.
The only thing I fear of this solution is that drug-dealers may turn nasty when the government implements this.

They won't want to loose their money income source and killing may start increasing. It is so horrible to be sleeping and hear gunshots outside.
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Old May 27, 2007, 11:54 PM   #4
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I vote for number two- it worked with alcohol.
I second that...
If there is a demand someone will supply, if they make enough money on it. period.
The war against drugs is a losing battle. Better to legalize it and tax it. Not high enough to make it profitable for organized smugglers, but high enough to finance the consequences. As a side effect you will take away a major income source for organized crime and various "freedom fighters".
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Old May 27, 2007, 11:54 PM   #5
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I vote for number two- it worked with alcohol.
Alcohol can't be directly compared to many of the illegal drugs. Last time I checked, the effects of illegal drugs can be far more devastating than a glass of alcohol.

The last thing America needs is more drug addicts IMO.
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Old May 27, 2007, 11:59 PM   #6
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Alcohol can't be directly compared to many of the illegal drugs. Last time I checked, the effects of illegal drugs can be far more devastating than a glass of alcohol.

The last thing America needs is more drug addicts IMO.

Well, which illegal drug are we talking about here? I personally think that alcohol is more dangerous than weed. Having been around drunk people and stoned people, it's the drunk guys that are more belligerent and a threat to others.
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Old May 28, 2007, 12:01 AM   #7
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there is no solution to this, you can't just go on and kill them on the streets, drug dealers have more balls, money, weapons and power than your own army or police, like someone else said, as long as there is demand someone will supply, and if you kill one of them the next generation is right behind it to take over...
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Old May 28, 2007, 12:02 AM   #8
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Well, which illegal drug are we talking about here? I personally think that alcohol is more dangerous than weed. Having been around drunk people and stoned people, it's the drunk guys that are more belligerent and a threat to others.
Nearly every illegal drug besides that.
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Old May 28, 2007, 12:03 AM   #9
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Nearly every illegal drug besides that.
lol, true
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Old May 28, 2007, 12:10 AM   #10
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there is no solution to this, you can't just go on and kill them on the streets, drug dealers have more balls, money, weapons and power than your own army or police, like someone else said, as long as there is demand someone will supply, and if you kill one of them the next generation is right behind it to take over...
It definitely seems a fight that can't be won, but still something must be done.

The reason I believe killing them in the streets would help is because many of the persons that enter organized crime is because they know no one would kill them.
Most are between the age of 18-25, and if they knew there are high possibilities to end death they'll think twice before entering organized crime.
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Old May 28, 2007, 12:12 AM   #11
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Alcohol can't be directly compared to many of the illegal drugs. Last time I checked, the effects of illegal drugs can be far more devastating than a glass of alcohol.
and yet they used to use heroin as a sedative/painkiller in hospitals. Heroin, morphine and opium all come from the same plant; the opium poppy.

Illegal drugs are only dangerous because the dealers lace it with all sorts of stuff. In the case of heroin, if they can double the amount of stuff they have, they can double the money the collect. Doing that means lacing the heroin with anything white; sugar, flour, washing powder, poison, etc. This means two things for the users;
-they are putting all sorts of crap into their body, which over time, ends up killing them
-they might take a hit from a supplier one step closer to the top, which means their hit is twice as strong as usual, which results in OD.

Heroin is a really useful drug, and it was brilliant in hospitals. It was only when people screwed around with it when it became a toxin among the general public.
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Old May 28, 2007, 12:18 AM   #12
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and yet they used to use heroin as a sedative/painkiller in hospitals. Heroin, morphine and opium all come from the same plant; the opium poppy.

Illegal drugs are only dangerous because the dealers lace it with all sorts of stuff. In the case of heroin, if they can double the amount of stuff they have, they can double the money the collect. Doing that means lacing the heroin with anything white; sugar, flour, washing powder, poison, etc. This means two things for the users;
-they are putting all sorts of crap into their body, which over time, ends up killing them
-they might take a hit from a supplier one step closer to the top, which means their hit is twice as strong as usual, which results in OD.

Heroin is a really useful drug, and it was brilliant in hospitals. It was only when people screwed around with it when it became a toxin among the general public.
While you do have a point, it's not entirely accurate. Opiates of any type are very addicting, and can be very devastating, no matter the source of the drug: hospital or illegal dealer. This is why opiate use in hospitals and pharmacies is very strict and limited. ...There's a reason why doctors don't just prescribe opiates for a runny nose.
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Old May 28, 2007, 01:24 AM   #13
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The last thing America needs is more drug addicts IMO.
So which would you rather deal with: the black market and organized crime, or an increase in drug usage? Seems to me, eliminating or at least significantly reducing the black market would be the more prudent thing to do. Then we could combat the increase in drug usage by launching massive education campaigns against all the various illicit drugs. And while we're at it, we should start making distinctions between all the various drugs available rather than lumping everything together into a neat little pile. Not particularly helpful, if you ask me.

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Originally Posted by yg17
Having been around drunk people and stoned people, it's the drunk guys that are more belligerent and a threat to others.
The worst thing I've seen, actually the only bad thing I've seen, from someone experiencing the effects of marijuana intoxication is a guy who thought he was having a heart attack and was on the verge of death. But he also suffered from panic attacks at the time. Smoking pot while suffering from anxiety disorders probably isn't the smartest thing in the world.

Last edited by aquajet; May 28, 2007 at 01:32 AM.
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Old May 28, 2007, 02:31 AM   #14
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Well lets be honest, alcohol would not be legal right now if we really knew what it could do to people.

But I still think the best way to get rid of organized crime is, like the others have said, is legalize the drugs and tax them.
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Old May 28, 2007, 04:52 AM   #15
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Well lets be honest, alcohol would not be legal right now if we really knew what it could do to people.
We tried that. Didn't work so well. Still isn't for other stuff.
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Old May 28, 2007, 04:58 AM   #16
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I vote for number two- it worked with alcohol.
I totally agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roco View Post
The only thing I fear of this solution is that drug-dealers may turn nasty when the government implements this.
No, they'll just set up business legally or get arrested by anonymous tipoffs from those dealers who did go legal.

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Well lets be honest, alcohol would not be legal right now if we really knew what it could do to people.
There is no way in hell, at least in the UK, that the government could ban alcohol even though it is fairly dangerous. They'd have more luck banning cars.
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Old May 28, 2007, 05:12 AM   #17
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Last time I checked, the effects of illegal drugs can be far more devastating than a glass of alcohol.


I don't think you have checked. Deaths from alcohol-related illness in the UK alone have been quoted by the NHS as:

Quote:
This week we were told that these illnesses are in danger of destroying the NHS and are responsible for 33,000 deaths every year, and that eight out of 10 people attending emergency units have alcohol related injuries
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...2/ai_n12595962


And in Scotland:

Quote:
Mr Kerr said that in Scotland one person dies every six hours as a direct result of alcohol, and deaths from liver cirrhosis are rising at an alarming rate. “Alcohol doesn't just affect the drinker”, he added. “The links between alcohol misuse, anti-social behaviour and violence are clear. Alcohol misuse is estimated to cost our economy over £1 billion a year.
http://www.ias.org.uk/resources/publ...200701_p2.html


There's nothing remotely comparable for any other drug, bar tobacco, legal or not. You can check that if you like.
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Old May 28, 2007, 05:27 AM   #18
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As George Carling said, the solution isn't to kill the drug dealers. They are killing themselves by the hundreds every day. Instead kill the bankers who launder the drug money.

Also i'm for legalising drugs. Tax the crap out of them and then use that tax money to pay for any addicts.

Pushing drugs underground doesn't stop people buying them, it just stops the government making money off it. Which could in turn be put into helping people with addiction problems.

I don't think this will happen though.

Although i do think there should be strict rules for advertising the drugs if they were legal. No advertisments allowed ever plus they'd all have to be sold in plain white boxes.
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Old May 28, 2007, 06:19 AM   #19
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You'll also see from this report that alcohol rates as more damaging than Ketamine, LSD, ecstasy as well as others, and not far behind coke.

Legalise and regulate the lot of it.

Surprised GB isn't in favour of it - think of the tax it would raise.
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Old May 28, 2007, 06:21 AM   #20
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You'll also see from this report that alcohol rates as more damaging than Ketamine, LSD, ecstasy as well as others, and not far behind coke.

Legalise and regulate the lot of it.

Surprised GB isn't in favour of it - think of the tax it would raise.
Its not really about health damage at all - would you rather be walking down the street next to a group of drunks, or those who just took some coke?
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Old May 28, 2007, 06:26 AM   #21
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Its not really about health damage at all - would you rather be walking down the street next to a group of drunks, or those who just took some coke?

Wiithout a doubt and speaking as a woman, next to those who'd been doing some lines. Drunks are the worst.
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Old May 28, 2007, 06:26 AM   #22
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Its not really about health damage at all - would you rather be walking down the street next to a group of drunks, or those who just took some coke?
It's a toss up, but if it's weed vs alcohol, I'd prefer weed.
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Old May 28, 2007, 06:33 AM   #23
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Its not really about health damage at all - would you rather be walking down the street next to a group of drunks, or those who just took some coke?
The coke heads.

But that relates more to immediate health damage. The cost to society itself is higher for alcohol than other, illegal, drugs as BV's link pointed out.

Not sure what that has to do with ending organised crime in Mexico though
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Old May 28, 2007, 06:43 AM   #24
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Its not really about health damage at all - would you rather be walking down the street next to a group of drunks, or those who just took some coke?
People who have taken coke without a doubt. Drunks are usually mindlessly violent. At least people on coke / ecstasy / cannabis / mushrooms are going to be doing it to have a good time and are less likely to be violent especially as the effects of those drugs is the complete opposite to violence.
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Old May 28, 2007, 07:47 AM   #25
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Legalize and tax drugs, with stringent controls like alcohol. The midwest could finally make some money off their land! Let the illicit dealers have amnesty due to our 'bad mistake' and tell them to find another line of work. I hate that "drugs are far worse than alcohol" mentality - it's a myth. So is the "we'll have more drug addicts" theory. Anybody who wants to use drugs is already getting them. including children.

In my younger days, I used very little alcohol, but was a daily (hourly) pot smoker, occasionally ate acid, x, shrooms, horse tranquilizers, did struggle with coke addiction off and on... never wrecked a car, or got in a single fight, or cursed anyone out belligerently, or stole a nickel. I have been to jail, tho.

Now that I'm clean, I do contribute to society in a better way (I hope!) No health problems at all, I'm just fine. I do not condone or reccomend that anyone use any intoxicating substances, but it should be an individual decision, not a mandate of the state that invites black market activity.

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