No ZFS Support in Leopard?

MacRumors · Jun 12, 2007, 02:11 AM

InformationWeek claims that Brian Croll, senior director of product marketing for the Mac OS, has said that "ZFS is not happening" when questioned about ZFS's inclusion in Leopard.

This contradicts a statement made by Sun CEO Jonathan Schwartz during a speech last week:

Quote:

In fact, this week you'll see that Apple is announcing at their Worldwide Developer Conference that ZFS has become the file system in Mac OS 10.

Prior betas of Leopard included evidence of early ZFS formatting availability. No word whether the WWDC build of Leopard has any signs of ZFS.

Brandon Sharitt · Jun 12, 2007, 02:13 AM

I wouldn't be entirelly surprised to see somesmall form or ZFS support, though I'd be more surprised to see boot support or especially the default file system. The most likely place to see it would be in Leopard server.

Mac Fly (film) · Jun 12, 2007, 02:16 AM

Please give us bootable ZFS Apple (& Sun)?

Nermal · 02:48 AM

I didn't expect it (edit: as the default FS). We knew that Apple was interested, but I always assumed that Jonathan was jumping to conclusions.

Stridder44 · Jun 12, 2007, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mac Fly (film)

Please give us bootable ZFS Apple (& Sun)?

x2

ZFS + timemachine makes sense.

MacinDoc · Jun 12, 2007, 02:19 AM

SJ wouldn't deep six the entire filing system for Leopard just to punish Schwartz for his slip-up, would he? Seriously, there's a lot more at stake than just a graphics card.

Maybe Sun is just in SJ's doghouse right now, and ZFS will be announced as one of the 290 other features of Leopard when it is released in October.

pengu · Jun 12, 2007, 02:24 AM

once someone has the beta theyre handing out installed im sure we'll know!

darwen · Jun 12, 2007, 02:27 AM

I wonder why he would say that then. Kinda makes him look dumb. I wonder what that meeting was like at apple after they hear the claims of ZFS. "um, no, I am certian Mr. Jobs. We didnt use it. I am not quite sure why he said that."

kenzbud · Jun 12, 2007, 02:29 AM

I sure hope they at least make it an option in some way. Is ZFS compatible with vista? I am about to buy an external Lacie hard drive & need to format it to work both with OS X & XP/Vista. Didn't know once 10.5 is released if I formated the external drive in ZFS if a Windows computer would be able to read/write to it.

zioxide · Jun 12, 2007, 02:31 AM

there's 300 features... they can't mention every one lol

nagromme · Jun 12, 2007, 02:35 AM

I still bet it happens someday, maybe October, maybe later.

I wasn't likely to reformat my whole drive just to go ZFS anyway, but it would be cool to have the option. ZFS sounds like an outstanding FS. Maybe one day it will be the default on new Macs.

eji · Jun 12, 2007, 02:37 AM

ZFS was the foremost reason why I was going to get very excited over Leopard. The features there now seems to be little more tweaks of Tiger apps (Finder is long overdue), and I'm not giddy with excitement like I have been in the past. Bummer.

EricNau · Jun 12, 2007, 02:37 AM

A certain somebody at Sun isn't going to be happy...

artpease · Jun 12, 2007, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenzbud

I sure hope they at least make it an option in some way. Is ZFS compatible with vista? I am about to buy an external Lacie hard drive & need to format it to work both with OS X & XP/Vista. Didn't know once 10.5 is released if I formated the external drive in ZFS if a Windows computer would be able to read/write to it.

Windows can't spell ZFS let alone read or write it...

samh004 · Jun 12, 2007, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacinDoc

SJ wouldn't deep six the entire filing system for Leopard just to punish Schwartz for his slip-up, would he?

It's being purged as I type this

Episteme · Jun 12, 2007, 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenzbud

I sure hope they at least make it an option in some way. Is ZFS compatible with vista? I am about to buy an external Lacie hard drive & need to format it to work both with OS X & XP/Vista. Didn't know once 10.5 is released if I formated the external drive in ZFS if a Windows computer would be able to read/write to it.

Nope. It's available for Solaris and FreeBSD that I'm aware of.

There's the free open-source FUSE with NTFS-3G -- it gives Mac OS X the ability to write to NTFS, the native NT/XP/Vista filesystem (OS X has built-in read-only capability). Otherwise, you can buy MacDrive 7, which gives XP/Vista the ability to read OS X's HPFS+ filesystem.

motulist · Jun 12, 2007, 02:47 AM

Jobs has been known to drastically alter Apple's technology roadmap if he's pissed at someone for leaking info, hasn't he? Didn't he switch to Nvida from ATI when ATI leaked info about the (then) upcoming Macs (or something like that)?

mrfrosty · Jun 12, 2007, 02:52 AM

For me ZFS was going to be the thing that properly made leopard "next generation" without it the improvements whilst taking us forward are not "all that !".

Also can someone tell me what deep sixing is ? We don't have this phrase in england and if i were to guess it's meaning it wouldn't be printable :-)

synth3tik · Jun 12, 2007, 02:52 AM

thats just stupid

pengu · Jun 12, 2007, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motulist

Jobs has been known to drastically alter Apple's technology roadmap if he's pissed at someone for leaking info, hasn't he? Didn't he switch to Nvida from ATI when ATI leaked info about the (then) upcoming Macs (or something like that)?

changing a video card is not going to have anywhere NEAR the same effect as removing a complete file system/volume manager/etc

DavidCar · Jun 12, 2007, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrfrosty

For me ZFS was going to be the thing that properly made leopard "next generation" without it the improvements whilst taking us forward are not "all that !".

Also can someone tell me what deep sixing is ? We don't have this phrase in england and if i were to guess it's meaning it wouldn't be printable :-)

It relates to being buried six feet underground, or burial at sea in the required minimum depth of six feet of water.

damacus · Jun 12, 2007, 03:03 AM

The fact that Jobs didn't mention it today leads me to believe that it will be supported optionally, at best. At least, for normal volumes. A filesystem is way too important to keep quiet from developers at a developers conference 4 months prior to a product launch.

It could be that time machine uses the filesystem for volumes selected for it. If this is the case, perhaps they didn't care to nod to Sun and name the FS just because of the leak, or they presume it doesn't matter what time machine uses since its handled by the system under the hood.

I'd really like to know one way or another for sure, though. The time for secrecy with leopard is gone, if in fact they're now feature-complete. They should release a lot more information via FAQ so people can get on with it....

Poff · Jun 12, 2007, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacinDoc

SJ wouldn't deep six the entire filing system for Leopard just to punish Schwartz for his slip-up, would he? Seriously, there's a lot more at stake than just a graphics card.

I was thinking about this same thing..

I wouldn't be surprised..

boobooq88 · Jun 12, 2007, 03:07 AM

Quote:

Leopard NFS now supports Kerberos authentication as...

from here

I guess it is still NFS

Quote:

Leopard is now an Open Brand UNIX 03 Registered Product, conforming to the SUSv3 and POSIX 1003.1 specifications for the C API, Shell Utilities, and Threads. Since Leopard can compile and run all your existing UNIX 03-compliant code, you can deploy it in environments that demand full conformance — complete with hooks to maintain compatibility with existing software.

Another find I found interesting... Leopard not BSD based? same link as above

Will_reed · Jun 12, 2007, 03:07 AM

I to think that ZFS will end up an optional choice in 10.5 on release and I think maybe they just decided not to show it for what ever reason they had.

Jun 12, 2007, 02:13 AM	#2
Brandon Sharitt macrumors 6502a Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Osan AB, Korea	I wouldn't be entirelly surprised to see somesmall form or ZFS support, though I'd be more surprised to see boot support or especially the default file system. The most likely place to see it would be in Leopard server. __________________ A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without bricks tied to its head. My Blog Junetech ConfusedYeti

Jun 12, 2007, 02:16 AM	#3
Mac Fly (film) macrumors regular Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Ireland	Please give us bootable ZFS Apple (& Sun)? __________________ Mac touch FTW!

Jun 12, 2007, 02:18 AM	#4
Nermal Demi-God (Moderator) Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Whakatane, New Zealand	I didn't expect it (edit: as the default FS). We knew that Apple was interested, but I always assumed that Jonathan was jumping to conclusions. Last edited by Nermal : Jun 12, 2007 at 02:48 AM.

Jun 12, 2007, 02:19 AM	#6
MacinDoc macrumors 65816 Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: The Great White North	SJ wouldn't deep six the entire filing system for Leopard just to punish Schwartz for his slip-up, would he? Seriously, there's a lot more at stake than just a graphics card. Maybe Sun is just in SJ's doghouse right now, and ZFS will be announced as one of the 290 other features of Leopard when it is released in October. __________________ MB Alu 2GHz, iMac i7, iPhone 3G, iPhone 3GS

Jun 12, 2007, 02:27 AM	#8
darwen macrumors 6502a Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: California, US	I wonder why he would say that then. Kinda makes him look dumb. I wonder what that meeting was like at apple after they hear the claims of ZFS. "um, no, I am certian Mr. Jobs. We didnt use it. I am not quite sure why he said that." __________________ Darwen

Jun 12, 2007, 02:24 AM	#7
pengu Banned Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Diddily Daddily...	once someone has the beta theyre handing out installed im sure we'll know!

Jun 12, 2007, 02:29 AM	#9
kenzbud macrumors member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Seattle, WA	I sure hope they at least make it an option in some way. Is ZFS compatible with vista? I am about to buy an external Lacie hard drive & need to format it to work both with OS X & XP/Vista. Didn't know once 10.5 is released if I formated the external drive in ZFS if a Windows computer would be able to read/write to it.

Jun 12, 2007, 02:31 AM	#10
zioxide macrumors 68040 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Massachusetts	there's 300 features... they can't mention every one lol

Jun 12, 2007, 02:35 AM	#11
nagromme macrumors 601 Join Date: May 2002 Location: Blinking blue dot	I still bet it happens someday, maybe October, maybe later. I wasn't likely to reformat my whole drive just to go ZFS anyway, but it would be cool to have the option. ZFS sounds like an outstanding FS. Maybe one day it will be the default on new Macs. __________________ nagromme Would you like a treatment?

Jun 12, 2007, 02:37 AM	#12
eji macrumors 6502 Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Germany	ZFS was the foremost reason why I was going to get very excited over Leopard. The features there now seems to be little more tweaks of Tiger apps (Finder is long overdue), and I'm not giddy with excitement like I have been in the past. Bummer. __________________ Diderot's Diary \| iMac 24" 2.8GHz (4GB, 10.5.x) • MBP 15" 2.5GHz (4GB, 10.5.x) • iPod Touch (2G, 32GB) • Canon MP600R • DrayTek Vigor 2910VG

Jun 12, 2007, 02:37 AM	#13
EricNau macrumors Demi-God Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Sacramento, CA	A certain somebody at Sun isn't going to be happy...

Jun 12, 2007, 02:47 AM	#17
motulist macrumors 68040 Join Date: Dec 2003	Jobs has been known to drastically alter Apple's technology roadmap if he's pissed at someone for leaking info, hasn't he? Didn't he switch to Nvida from ATI when ATI leaked info about the (then) upcoming Macs (or something like that)?

Jun 12, 2007, 02:52 AM	#18
mrfrosty macrumors 6502 Join Date: Oct 2005	For me ZFS was going to be the thing that properly made leopard "next generation" without it the improvements whilst taking us forward are not "all that !". Also can someone tell me what deep sixing is ? We don't have this phrase in england and if i were to guess it's meaning it wouldn't be printable :-) __________________ MrFrosty

Jun 12, 2007, 02:52 AM	#19
synth3tik macrumors Demi-God Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minneapolis, MN	thats just stupid __________________ Come check out my music! http://www.batteriesarentfood.com http://www.cdbaby.com/Artist/BatteriesarentFood

Jun 12, 2007, 03:03 AM	#22
damacus macrumors newbie Join Date: Jun 2007	The fact that Jobs didn't mention it today leads me to believe that it will be supported optionally, at best. At least, for normal volumes. A filesystem is way too important to keep quiet from developers at a developers conference 4 months prior to a product launch. It could be that time machine uses the filesystem for volumes selected for it. If this is the case, perhaps they didn't care to nod to Sun and name the FS just because of the leak, or they presume it doesn't matter what time machine uses since its handled by the system under the hood. I'd really like to know one way or another for sure, though. The time for secrecy with leopard is gone, if in fact they're now feature-complete. They should release a lot more information via FAQ so people can get on with it....

Jun 12, 2007, 03:07 AM	#25
Will_reed macrumors 6502 Join Date: May 2005	I to think that ZFS will end up an optional choice in 10.5 on release and I think maybe they just decided not to show it for what ever reason they had. __________________ http://onemanfilm.blogspot.com/

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