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Pictures of SR MBP high CPU temp due to poor thermal paste application (56k ok)

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C

chem

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jun 9, 2007
184
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My concerns about the high running temp under full dual-core CPU load for the new SR MBPs ( https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=3737495 ) appear to be validated.

An owner of one of these machines opened it up, and found sloppy thermal paste application throughout the machine:
http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=4722630#4722630

He removed the old paste, and reapplied some of his own. His idle temps dropped by about 10C, and load temps dropped by about 15C.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1142/544386383_337feecde7_b.jpg (before)
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1281/544280522_aba5a3c267_b.jpg (after)

It appears that the rush to assemble and ship SR MBPs has led to poor build quality, which will ultimately affect the reliability and lifetime of the machine you buy from Apple. This is a really old problem, having previously been observed in Apple's notebooks. And supposedly fixed. But, it's back. Quality control in Shanghai needs some work.
 
PimpDaddy

PimpDaddy

macrumors 6502
May 9, 2007
359
75
chem said:
My concerns about the high running temp under full dual-core CPU load for the new SR MBPs ( https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=3737495 ) appear to be validated.

An owner of one of these machines opened it up, and found sloppy thermal paste application throughout the machine:
http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=4722630#4722630

He removed the old paste, and reapplied some of his own. His idle temps dropped by about 10C, and load temps dropped by about 15C.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1142/544386383_337feecde7_b.jpg (before)
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1281/544280522_aba5a3c267_b.jpg (after)

It appears that the rush to assemble and ship SR MBPs has led to poor build quality, which will ultimately affect the reliability and lifetime of the machine you buy from Apple. This is a really old problem, having previously been observed in Apple's notebooks. And supposedly fixed. But, it's back. Quality control in Shanghai needs some work.
Click to expand...

Daaamn. I really hope that I will NOT get a machine with this kind of "flaw"
 
D

dusanv

macrumors 6502
Mar 1, 2006
351
0
This sucks. Mine is reporting the exact same temperatures as yours before modification. So it voids the warranty? How many stickers did you have to remove?
 
shieldyoureyes

shieldyoureyes

macrumors 6502
Nov 1, 2005
277
0
Uppsala, Sweden
This sucks because I have to buy a Macbook Pro within the next few weeks and I really don't want to have to deal with this. Hopefully if enough people complain...
 
C

chem

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jun 9, 2007
184
0
dusanv said:
This sucks. Mine is reporting the exact same temperatures as yours before modification. So it voids the warranty? How many stickers did you have to remove?
Click to expand...

To be clear; those are not my pictures or MBP. I was the original poster in the apple.com thread, and the investigator was a nice guy who responded. You could post in the apple.com thread that I linked and ask that person directly.

I have load tested a SR MBP in an Apple store and observed extremely high CPU temps (see my first link). I thought thermal paste may be the problem. Looks like that may be right.
 
D

dusanv

macrumors 6502
Mar 1, 2006
351
0
Oh, OK. I'm assuming yellow stickers he's referring to are for warranty purposes. How many did he have to remove and why couldn't he just put them back?

I'm wondering about another thing. It keeps reporting the bottom of the enclosure at 36 C (which is the normal body temperature) but it definitely feels a fair bit warmer than that (I'd say ~45). If anyone could take a measurement with one of those IR temperature sensors, it'd be great.
 
M

mopppish

macrumors 6502
Nov 27, 2005
356
1
Geez.
The highest I've seen my MBP's CPU go is 76C after ripping several CDs into itunes using an external firewire CD drive (which removes the internal drive's bottleneck and gets average ripping speeds of 30-40X, sometimes higher!). And I also do pretty heavy duty audio work. itunes ripping with the external drive seems to be the most intensive thing I ask it to do.
These things are rated to run at much higher temps than that. Granted, opening up and meddling with the insides may net you around a 10C drop, but what's the benefit of the POSSIBILITY of a longer life for your laptop when
#1. a voided warranty is just as likely to shorten your laptop's life (when there's a real problem, Apple will no longer fix it!)
#2. most people with the know-how to open up a MBP and reapply thermal paste are fooling themselves if they think they'd be willing to put up with it's "outdated technology" over three years from now! :rolleyes: These are the same guys that scream "MEROM!" or "SANTA ROSA!" or "PENRYN!"
A cooler machine for your lap might be nice, but if you're asking it to do things that you know will make the temp soar, then what the hell are you doing with it on your lap anyway? :p
 
andiwm2003

andiwm2003

macrumors 601
Mar 29, 2004
4,382
454
Boston, MA
mopppish said:
Geez.
The highest I've seen my MBP's CPU go is 76C after ripping several CDs into itunes using an external firewire CD drive (which removes the internal drive's bottleneck and gets average ripping speeds of 30-40X, sometimes higher!). And I also do pretty heavy duty audio work. itunes ripping with the external drive seems to be the most intensive thing I ask it to do.
These things are rated to run at much higher temps than that. Granted, opening up and meddling with the insides may net you around a 10C drop, but what's the benefit of the POSSIBILITY of a longer life for your laptop when
#1. a voided warranty is just as likely to shorten your laptop's life (when there's a real problem, Apple will no longer fix it!)
#2. most people with the know-how to open up a MBP and reapply thermal paste are fooling themselves if they think they'd be willing to put up with it's "outdated technology" over three years from now! :rolleyes: These are the same guys that scream "MEROM!" or "SANTA ROSA!" or "PENRYN!"
A cooler machine for your lap might be nice, but if you're asking it to do things that you know will make the temp soar, then what the hell are you doing with it on your lap anyway? :p
Click to expand...

i think you're missing the point.

i don't think they suggest we should fix our MBP's ourselves. I think the point is that apples manufacturing (or their contractor) is sloppy and if you wait a while before you buy the problem may go away because apple will apply the correct thermal paste amount.
 
C

chem

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jun 9, 2007
184
0
Yeah, you're paying over $2000 or $2500 for the machine. Opening it up voids your warranty. Therefore, demanding that something so simple yet so important such as thermal paste application be performed correctly is perfectly reasonable.

That extra 15-20C under load may lead to a kernel panic or hardware failure one day. When you're doing something you consider important.
 
S

Sopranino

macrumors 6502
Sep 27, 2006
348
0
Alberta, Canada
chem said:
My concerns about the high running temp under full dual-core CPU load for the new SR MBPs ( https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=3737495 ) appear to be validated.

An owner of one of these machines opened it up, and found sloppy thermal paste application throughout the machine:
http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=4722630#4722630

He removed the old paste, and reapplied some of his own. His idle temps dropped by about 10C, and load temps dropped by about 15C.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1142/544386383_337feecde7_b.jpg (before)
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1281/544280522_aba5a3c267_b.jpg (after)

It appears that the rush to assemble and ship SR MBPs has led to poor build quality, which will ultimately affect the reliability and lifetime of the machine you buy from Apple. This is a really old problem, having previously been observed in Apple's notebooks. And supposedly fixed. But, it's back. Quality control in Shanghai needs some work.
Click to expand...

I've just read the posting at discussions.apple.com that is referred to above. I've copied a portion of that message here:

Well, my stock system used to idle around 45-54°C, for a system that's not doing much other then surfing the web; that's pretty hot >< and that's without the SMCfanControl software running.

Currently, it's kinda idle, with photoshop running in the background.., the temp is floating around 38-44°C mark. For experimental purpose the fans are still on the lowest setting (about 1998-2003RPM).

I'd would say there's definitely some improvement, though under heavy load it does peak around 60-65°C, which is a load more healthy than the average 78-90°C that other people seems to be getting. Setting the SMC software to 2200-3000RPM seems to keep the system much cooler, even under load, but I assume one would be sacrificing battery life for a cooler mac. Personally, I'd like my machine enjoy a longer life!
Click to expand...

Although he is showing a modest drop in temperature after the mod he also says that he is running the fans as well. Unfortunately we don't know if the fans were running at the higher reported idle temperature, prior to the mod, or not. If they weren't then this test is flawed. I wonder if the individual could retest this mod with the fans turned off if the before mod test also had the fans not running.

Just an observation, and I'm by no means criticizing the work that the OP has done. Pulling apart a MBP and cleaning up the thermal paste application is no easy task.

Sopranino
 
C

chem

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jun 9, 2007
184
0
Sopranino said:
Although he is showing a modest drop in temperature after the mod he also says that he is running the fans as well. Unfortunately we don't know if the fans were running at the higher reported idle temperature, prior to the mod, or not. If they weren't then this test is flawed. I wonder if the individual could retest this mod with the fans turned off if the before mod test also had the fans not running.
Click to expand...

Well, in the tester's post, he uses the phrase "still on the lowest setting (about 1998-2003RPM)". That implies that prior to his mod, the fans were on that setting. It also corresponds with what I observed about fan rpm testing a model in-store (stated in the same apple.com post) -- the Apple default appears to be to run the fans at 2000 rpm. Having the fans off during a load test would certainly be a no-no. I think he's saying that he has also used SMCFancontrol to increase fan rpm and look at CPU temp, independent of the thermal paste question.

Hope that helps.
 
zioxide

zioxide

macrumors 603
Dec 11, 2006
5,737
3,726
And this is why companies shouldn't be outsourcing all of their work to China to have little 7-year-olds applying thermal paste in order to save some money...
 
A

aquajet

macrumors 68020
Feb 12, 2005
2,386
9
VA
People, disassebling your computer does not necessarily void your warranty. As long as you do it correctly and don't damage anything, there's nothing to worry about.
 
S

Sopranino

macrumors 6502
Sep 27, 2006
348
0
Alberta, Canada
chem said:
Well, in the tester's post, he uses the phrase "still on the lowest setting (about 1998-2003RPM)". That implies that prior to his mod, the fans were on that setting. It also corresponds with what I observed about fan rpm testing a model in-store (stated in the same apple.com post) -- the Apple default appears to be to run the fans at 2000 rpm. Having the fans off during a load test would certainly be a no-no. I think he's saying that he has also used SMCFancontrol to increase fan rpm and look at CPU temp, independent of the thermal paste question.

Hope that helps.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that he should run a load test with the fans off. What I was attempting to say (somewhat poorly) is that if the fans were off during idle, prior to the mod, then he should be making sure that the fans are off during the idle test after the mod.

I may be getting confused by the statement about the fans being on their lowest setting. Do I interpret that as the fans were running at their lowest setting during the idle portion of the test or was the fan settings still at their lowest but they were not running during the test?

Sopranino
 
C

chem

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jun 9, 2007
184
0
Sopranino said:
I may be getting confused by the statement about the fans being on their lowest setting. Do I interpret that as the fans were running at their lowest setting during the idle portion of the test or was the fan settings still at their lowest but they were not running during the test?
Click to expand...

My understanding is that the fans were running at 2000 rpm the entire time. At idle, under full load, pre-mod, and post-mod. Then, after all that, the user raised the rpm using SMCFancontrol, because he wants his MBP to run with higher fan rpm. His "lowest setting" is the 2000 rpm, which is the default fan speed for the SR MBP. The SR MBP I tested in-store also had the fans running at 2000 rpm regardless of load.
 
jstad

jstad

macrumors regular
Jun 13, 2007
119
0
aquajet said:
People, disassebling your computer does not necessarily void your warranty. As long as you do it correctly and don't damage anything, there's nothing to worry about.
Click to expand...

True most apple stores have no idea if something is tampered with when they see it in the store to replace it. So just dont be an idiot when you disassemble the thing. Kind of like my friend who wanted a new ipod and put his in the microwave while playing mp3's. :D
 
C

chem

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jun 9, 2007
184
0
shipdestroyer said:
If I remember correctly, the lower temps are because he forgot to reattach a sensor cable and the fans remained at 100% speed as a result.
Click to expand...

Uh, source/evidence for this comment? There's nothing about that in the thread. At all. Maybe you're thinking of someone else's experiment, on a different notebook?
 
K

kingofkolt

macrumors 6502
May 2, 2007
375
0
Boston, MA
Well, I've installed Vista and Battlefield 2 on my new MacBook Pro and it's frozen twice, and I'm pretty sure the problem is overheating. It was VERY hot underneath while I was playing but I didn't actually think it would crash. But it did. I don't know if it's a defect of the laptop or if I just had the settings on too high. But if I did, shouldn't it just take a performance hit, as opposed to staying at full speed and then just crashing when it overheats?
 
Sbrocket

Sbrocket

macrumors 65816
Jun 3, 2007
1,250
0
/dev/null
aquajet said:
People, disassebling your computer does not necessarily void your warranty. As long as you do it correctly and don't damage anything, there's nothing to worry about.
Click to expand...

I'd be willing to bet that if its readily visible that you opened the computer, even to just look around, the Apple service person would say that you voided the warranty under Section 1.b.ii of the AppleCare Terms of Service. You can look it up if you want.

Edit: Actually, you don't even have to look it up.

(ii) Damage to the Covered Equipment caused by accident, abuse, neglect, misuse (including faulty installation, repair, or maintenance by anyone other than Apple or an Apple Authorized Service Provider), unauthorized modification, extreme environment (including extreme temperature or humidity), extreme physical or electrical stress or interference, fluctuation or surges of electrical power, lightning, static electricity, fire, acts of God or other external causes;
Click to expand...
 
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