"Don't buy ink jet printers from Epson"

NoVi · Jul 7, 2003, 04:20 PM

Today I've been reading an interesting article from the Dutch Consumer Organization, de Consumentenbond.

They perform regularly test on all sorts of equipment and this time they tested ink jet printers.
De Consumentenbond has some harsh and shocking conclusions with respect to the cartridges that come along with the Epson printers.

The cartridges that Epson deliver have a chip that 'shuts down' the cartridge after a certain amount of print outs. So even if there is ink in the cartridge it simply won't print while up to 100 extra pages might have been printed!

De Consumentenbond says that Epson is operating with "cheating methods" and gives the advice "NOT to buy ink jet printers from Epson". (quote).

The whole article in Dutch can be read from this link:
http://www.consumentenbond.nl/nieuws...ticket=nietlid

Abstract · Jul 7, 2003, 04:22 PM

Really!?!?!? Wow. From the title of this thread, I was going to come in here and say not to buy from Epson because their printer's suck, but your reason is MUCH better.

iGav · Jul 7, 2003, 04:26 PM

Epsons do indeed have this chip in them (it's no secret) it allows you to monitor the amount of ink left... and they shut down before they're totally empty, although normally if you take them out, give it a very gentle shake and replace it, you can usually get a few more print out of it.

I doubt you'd get 100 extra pages though, unless each page contains only text, and a small amount of it, at really small point size, but you're unlikely to get 100 A4 colour prints from it...

tazo · Jul 7, 2003, 04:33 PM

hp > epson

mybrother has had nothing but problems with his epson

jefhatfield · Jul 7, 2003, 04:45 PM

when i first started as a computer tech, epsons were good for macs, and hp printers were good for ibm pcs, and lexmark, formerly with ibm, sucked pond water

but lexmark has gotten their act together, then they got glowing reviews, then i bought one for my ibook (18 months ago)

apple likes to sell ibooks with lexmarks, so do catalogs

the lexmark is just as good as an hp or epson, but it's cheaper

reliability wise, it is better than the hp and epson printers i have seen as a 1) warranty tech, 2) company tech, and 3) self employed tech

but overall, most printers can get the "job" done and in many cases, it's just what you get used to in your uses or business

MacFan25 · Jul 7, 2003, 04:45 PM

I got a free Epson printer when I got my iMac from MacMall, and I have had no problems with it. I've only had to replace the black cartridge once.

Abstract · Jul 7, 2003, 04:51 PM

I got a Canon S520. It was the fastest printer when I first bought it, and it used very little ink. Its still a great printer, and I wouldn't switch back to my Epson if you gave it to me for free.

I know that there is an Epson printer that would wipe the floor with my Canon, but I have always had great luck with Canon printers, so why bother switching ever again?

King Cobra · Jul 7, 2003, 04:54 PM

Epson quality printers...

The older ink cartrigs. had a chip, counting each page you printed and estimating (not accurately) how much ink was used.

Newer cartrgs. have a digital device to more accurately measure ink. That should be obvious, too.

I have two Epson printers, the 740i and the 880. I often use the 880, and it works like last year, but it's just not that new.

job · Jul 7, 2003, 05:07 PM

I've found HP printers to be far superior in physical build quality and ink cartridge life than Epsons. Just my simple opinion though.

bousozoku · Jul 7, 2003, 05:58 PM

I usually buy business class inkjets and find my Epson SC900 isn't a thief although the cartridges are more expensive that those for the consumer printers. My Lexmark Z42 has good colour for photographs but definitely pours out the ink and those cartridges are more expensive still.

I think my next printer will be a Canon i9100.

scem0 · Jul 7, 2003, 06:19 PM

I say don't buy an inkjet at all.

I couldn't imagine living without my laser printer. I got mine for $130.00 - laser printers are going down in price.

I guess some people require color printing though, in which case you can get a color laser printer

.

scem0

King Cobra · Jul 7, 2003, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bousozoku
...the cartridges are more expensive that those for the consumer printers.

Ink cartridge prices also depend on which model printer (of one particular company) you have.

Epson 740i ink catridges can cost $20.

Down at the bottom of this page lists Epson 880 ink cartridges for about $8 to $12.

Different companies also like to charge more...

wdlove · Jul 7, 2003, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by scem0
I say don't buy an inkjet at all.

I couldn't imagine living without my laser printer. I got mine for $130.00 - laser printers are going down in price.

I guess some people require color printing though, in which case you can get a color laser printer .

scem0

I'm shocked by that price scem0. The last laser printer price I saw was for $999. What kind of output do you get for $130?

Lyle · Jul 7, 2003, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wdlove
I'm shocked by that price scem0. The last laser printer price I saw was for $999. What kind of output do you get for $130?

I doubt that you're going to find a color laser printer in that price range, but there are definitely some affordable B & W laser printers available for $200.00 or less.

I bought a Hewlett-Packard LaserJet 5L three or four years ago for around $400.00, and it's turned out to be a very reliable B & W printer. For comparison purposes, I just checked buy.com's laser printer selection and they have several nice-looking monochrome laser printers in that price range. Now mind you, these are for home/personal use and aren't going to be as fast as some of the higher-cost printers targeted at business users. But our LaserJet, which only prints at about 6 pages per minute (IIRC), is just fine for your typical letters, reports, etc.

This is not an anti-inkjet post, by the way.

Ink jet printer quality has progressed tremendously since we bought this LaserJet a few years back, and if I were to buy a new printer today it would likely be an inkjet. For my purposes, the quality from the current crop of inkjet printers is "good enough", plus you get the bonus of color printing when you want it.

QCassidy352 · Jul 7, 2003, 10:31 PM

I've had nothing but good results with espon inkjet printers. Fast, long-lasting ink cartridges, great quality, instant compatibility. I wouldn't buy anything else.

Freg3000 · Jul 7, 2003, 11:18 PM

I guess I am the odd man out, but I absolutely love Epson printers. I just love Epson in general. I have no idea why too. I just do. It's weird. All my printers have been Epsons and I have never had any problems.

Last month I got their all-in-one CX 5200, and it is great. It is great. The only thing that doesn't work is the one touch scan button, because of OS X drivers. but all the other one-touch buttons work. GO EPSON!

technocoy · Jul 7, 2003, 11:42 PM

I'm a graphic designer, and when it comes to doing a quality comp print, i'm doing it on an epson. period. I've owned high end printers from HP, epson, and canon, and canon and HP (in that order) are better for consumers, but epson makes the best professional printers, hands down. some HP large-formats are nice though.

zarathustra · 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by technocoy
I'm a graphic designer, and when it comes to doing a quality comp print, i'm doing it on an epson. period. I've owned high end printers from HP, epson, and canon, and canon and HP (in that order) are better for consumers, but epson makes the best professional printers, hands down. some HP large-formats are nice though.

I'll have to agree.

I had many EPSON printers: 740, 900, 3000, 820, etc. I LOVED them. I even have an EPSON scanner after going through UMAX hell. Professionally we have LinotypeHell and Heidelberg scanners though.

I think CANON is about the only printer that might tempt me to ditch EPSON. The performance/price ratio is a tad better and the color is great.

But where EPSON shines is professional output to EPSON stock. Have you seen the new 90 year inks printed by the 2 picoliter printers on the 97 brightness photo papers? Wow! It makes dye-sublimation an awkward old-timey relic!

zarathustra · Jul 8, 2003, 12:22 AM

BTW, I thought it was ironic that above this thread there was an ad for EPSON ink cartridges.

Sorry to double post, but couldn't edit to include image in my first message.

SilvorX · Jul 8, 2003, 01:16 AM

lol it says that for me 2, i find that all the epson printers ive ever used are totally cruddy, my hp printer works fine, i used to love hp's products until about a year and half ago, but my hp printer works fine, but i wish it was a little faster and better quality

pianojoe · Jul 8, 2003, 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by job
I've found HP printers to be far superior in physical build quality and ink cartridge life than Epsons. Just my simple opinion though.

Yes, and I'm waiting for a decent driver for HP my LJ3300m all-in-one which never worked since the first "driver" for OS X beta was released. At least, since it is a post script printer, basic printing is built into OS X without HP getting involved. But don't ask me about scanning faxing etc.

MacBandit · Jul 8, 2003, 02:51 AM

Okay to start off I absolutely love HP printers. Also to answer another persons statement some of us have to have inkjets so we can print affordable photos.

Well just so everyone doesn't think Epson is alone in this I just have to let you know that HP does the same thing. They measure the ink in the cartridge and then most of the time prematurely shut them down. This is done because HP guarantees the quality of your prints an they don't want to run the risk of you having a poor print. Also something else that isn't mentioned here is that both Epson and HP have a time stamp on the chip in the cartridges and if you don't use them in like a year and a half after they were produced the printer will refuse to use them. This is also done to ensure print quality.

There has been another side affect to this. Any printer manufacturer who uses this new chip can now sue to prevent 3rd party manufacturors from making printer cartridges for there printers. This is because to produce printer cartridges to work in the printer the company would have to reverse engineer the chip on them and in affect would be committing copy right infringement. I don't remember which company sued over this but it wasn't HP or Epson.

pseudobrit · Jul 8, 2003, 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MacBandit
There has been another side affect to this. Any printer manufacturer who uses this new chip can now sue to prevent 3rd party manufacturors from making printer cartridges for there printers. This is because to produce printer cartridges to work in the printer the company would have to reverse engineer the chip on them and in affect would be committing copy right infringement. I don't remember which company sued over this but it wasn't HP or Epson.

It was Lexmark. They did this for laser toner cartridges, which is scarier than a suit over inkjet cartridges. Toner cartridges are remanufactured at an incredible rate; most businesses will use reman'd to save money. To lockout the aftermarket in this way is inviting exploitation and fleecing.

They used DMCA, actually. Quite not what the authors of that law had in mind.

The Reg has the scoop:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/archive/28811.html

And here's another piece about how OEM inkjet ink is over 7 times more expensive than Dom Perignon in the UK:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/31569.html

That means if inkjet ink were in a standard 750mL bottle, it would cost over $800.

tazo · Jul 8, 2003, 04:14 AM

dell is selling laser printers for 299 i believe.

rt_brained · 04:36 AM

I have a couple Epsons, incl. the 740i and Photo 1200, but if I were to buy another ink jet, I'd take the Canon i950 for its great price ($249), amazing print quality and 6 separate ink cartridges.

The brushed metal finish looks sharp too.

Jul 7, 2003, 04:20 PM	#1
NoVi macrumors member Join Date: Jan 2003	"Don't buy ink jet printers from Epson" Today I've been reading an interesting article from the Dutch Consumer Organization, de Consumentenbond. They perform regularly test on all sorts of equipment and this time they tested ink jet printers. De Consumentenbond has some harsh and shocking conclusions with respect to the cartridges that come along with the Epson printers. The cartridges that Epson deliver have a chip that 'shuts down' the cartridge after a certain amount of print outs. So even if there is ink in the cartridge it simply won't print while up to 100 extra pages might have been printed! De Consumentenbond says that Epson is operating with "cheating methods" and gives the advice "NOT to buy ink jet printers from Epson". (quote). The whole article in Dutch can be read from this link: http://www.consumentenbond.nl/nieuws...ticket=nietlid

Jul 7, 2003, 04:22 PM	#2
Abstract macrumors Demi-God Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: It's classified.	Really!?!?!? Wow. From the title of this thread, I was going to come in here and say not to buy from Epson because their printer's suck, but your reason is MUCH better. __________________ "Oh, I've always wanted to touch Stanley," signs teacher Fran Zakoor, embracing the kids… ESPN Article, 04/09/2008

Jul 7, 2003, 04:26 PM	#3
iGav macrumors 601 Join Date: Mar 2002	Epsons do indeed have this chip in them (it's no secret) it allows you to monitor the amount of ink left... and they shut down before they're totally empty, although normally if you take them out, give it a very gentle shake and replace it, you can usually get a few more print out of it. I doubt you'd get 100 extra pages though, unless each page contains only text, and a small amount of it, at really small point size, but you're unlikely to get 100 A4 colour prints from it... __________________ "Flick the Gestapo.... No, I said Flick, the Gestapo!"

Jul 7, 2003, 04:45 PM	#6
MacFan25 macrumors 68000 Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: USA	I got a free Epson printer when I got my iMac from MacMall, and I have had no problems with it. I've only had to replace the black cartridge once. __________________ Folding FAQ - Find out exactly what folding is and how to join MacRumors Team Folding!

Jul 7, 2003, 04:51 PM	#7
Abstract macrumors Demi-God Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: It's classified.	I got a Canon S520. It was the fastest printer when I first bought it, and it used very little ink. Its still a great printer, and I wouldn't switch back to my Epson if you gave it to me for free. I know that there is an Epson printer that would wipe the floor with my Canon, but I have always had great luck with Canon printers, so why bother switching ever again? __________________ "Oh, I've always wanted to touch Stanley," signs teacher Fran Zakoor, embracing the kids… ESPN Article, 04/09/2008

Jul 7, 2003, 04:33 PM	#4
tazo Guest Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Pacific Northwest, Seattle, WA actually	hp > epson mybrother has had nothing but problems with his epson

Jul 7, 2003, 04:45 PM	#5
jefhatfield Retired Join Date: Jul 2000	when i first started as a computer tech, epsons were good for macs, and hp printers were good for ibm pcs, and lexmark, formerly with ibm, sucked pond water but lexmark has gotten their act together, then they got glowing reviews, then i bought one for my ibook (18 months ago) apple likes to sell ibooks with lexmarks, so do catalogs the lexmark is just as good as an hp or epson, but it's cheaper reliability wise, it is better than the hp and epson printers i have seen as a 1) warranty tech, 2) company tech, and 3) self employed tech but overall, most printers can get the "job" done and in many cases, it's just what you get used to in your uses or business

Jul 7, 2003, 04:54 PM	#8
King Cobra Guest Join Date: Mar 2002	Epson quality printers... The older ink cartrigs. had a chip, counting each page you printed and estimating (not accurately) how much ink was used. Newer cartrgs. have a digital device to more accurately measure ink. That should be obvious, too. I have two Epson printers, the 740i and the 880. I often use the 880, and it works like last year, but it's just not that new.

Jul 7, 2003, 05:07 PM	#9
job macrumors 68040 Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: in transit	I've found HP printers to be far superior in physical build quality and ink cartridge life than Epsons. Just my simple opinion though. __________________ flickr

Jul 7, 2003, 05:58 PM	#10
bousozoku Retired (Moderator emeritus) Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Gone but not forgotten.	I usually buy business class inkjets and find my Epson SC900 isn't a thief although the cartridges are more expensive that those for the consumer printers. My Lexmark Z42 has good colour for photographs but definitely pours out the ink and those cartridges are more expensive still. I think my next printer will be a Canon i9100.

Jul 7, 2003, 06:19 PM	#11
scem0 macrumors 601 Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: back in NYC!	I say don't buy an inkjet at all. I couldn't imagine living without my laser printer. I got mine for $130.00 - laser printers are going down in price. I guess some people require color printing though, in which case you can get a color laser printer . scem0

Jul 7, 2003, 10:31 PM	#15
QCassidy352 Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Boston, MA	I've had nothing but good results with espon inkjet printers. Fast, long-lasting ink cartridges, great quality, instant compatibility. I wouldn't buy anything else.

Jul 7, 2003, 11:18 PM	#16
Freg3000 macrumors 68000 Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: New York	I guess I am the odd man out, but I absolutely love Epson printers. I just love Epson in general. I have no idea why too. I just do. It's weird. All my printers have been Epsons and I have never had any problems. Last month I got their all-in-one CX 5200, and it is great. It is great. The only thing that doesn't work is the one touch scan button, because of OS X drivers. but all the other one-touch buttons work. GO EPSON! __________________ FregTK This Is Momentum.

Jul 7, 2003, 11:42 PM	#17
technocoy macrumors 6502a Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Raleigh, NC	epson I'm a graphic designer, and when it comes to doing a quality comp print, i'm doing it on an epson. period. I've owned high end printers from HP, epson, and canon, and canon and HP (in that order) are better for consumers, but epson makes the best professional printers, hands down. some HP large-formats are nice though. __________________ 4GB 1G nano, 16GB iPhone 2.4 17" MBP 2.66 MacPro, 3TB, 5Gigs of RAM, 8800GT 2.9 Quad FakePro, 2TB, 8Gigs, 2 9800s, BR/HD DVD

Jul 8, 2003, 12:22 AM	#19
zarathustra macrumors Demi-God Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Dallas, TX	BTW, I thought it was ironic that above this thread there was an ad for EPSON ink cartridges. Sorry to double post, but couldn't edit to include image in my first message. Attached Thumbnails

Jul 8, 2003, 01:16 AM	#20
SilvorX macrumors 68000 Join Date: May 2002 Location: 'Toba, Canada	lol it says that for me 2, i find that all the epson printers ive ever used are totally cruddy, my hp printer works fine, i used to love hp's products until about a year and half ago, but my hp printer works fine, but i wish it was a little faster and better quality __________________ 800Mhz iBook G3, White iPhone 3G, Canon SD1000 Digital Camera and a 24 of beer! It's better to burn out than fade away

Jul 8, 2003, 02:51 AM	#22
MacBandit macrumors 601 Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Springfield, OR (Home of the Simpsons)	Okay to start off I absolutely love HP printers. Also to answer another persons statement some of us have to have inkjets so we can print affordable photos. Well just so everyone doesn't think Epson is alone in this I just have to let you know that HP does the same thing. They measure the ink in the cartridge and then most of the time prematurely shut them down. This is done because HP guarantees the quality of your prints an they don't want to run the risk of you having a poor print. Also something else that isn't mentioned here is that both Epson and HP have a time stamp on the chip in the cartridges and if you don't use them in like a year and a half after they were produced the printer will refuse to use them. This is also done to ensure print quality. There has been another side affect to this. Any printer manufacturer who uses this new chip can now sue to prevent 3rd party manufacturors from making printer cartridges for there printers. This is because to produce printer cartridges to work in the printer the company would have to reverse engineer the chip on them and in affect would be committing copy right infringement. I don't remember which company sued over this but it wasn't HP or Epson. __________________ Folding@Home "Folding FAQ," for more information. Fold with your PS3. Message me on the Playstation Network ID 'MacBandit'

Jul 8, 2003, 04:14 AM	#24
tazo Guest Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Pacific Northwest, Seattle, WA actually	dell is selling laser printers for 299 i believe.

Jul 8, 2003, 04:31 AM	#25
rt_brained macrumors 6502a Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Creativille	I have a couple Epsons, incl. the 740i and Photo 1200, but if I were to buy another ink jet, I'd take the Canon i950 for its great price ($249), amazing print quality and 6 separate ink cartridges. The brushed metal finish looks sharp too. Last edited by rt_brained : Jul 8, 2003 at 04:36 AM.

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