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Old Aug 3, 2003, 07:56 PM   #1
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Case-sensitive file system option in Mac OS X Panther 7B21.


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Link: Case-sensitive file system option in Mac OS X Panther 7B21.

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Old Aug 3, 2003, 08:01 PM   #2
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What would you want this for? I can't think of a single reason why you'd want your filesystem to be case sensitive, although I'm sure I'll know hundreds of reasons by the time you've all finished explaining it to me
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Old Aug 3, 2003, 08:09 PM   #3
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can anyone verify this (that the option is there)?

the reason you want it is because most unix systems are case-sensitive. It can cause problems when you have a directory of files from a case sensitive format coming to a system wtih a case-insensitive format.

arn
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Old Aug 3, 2003, 08:23 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by arn
can anyone verify this (that the option is there)?

the reason you want it is because most unix systems are case-sensitive. It can cause problems when you have a directory of files from a case sensitive format coming to a system wtih a case-insensitive format.

arn
Yup, and I want more then one 'My Folder' on my desktop.

I also want 'my Folder' & 'my folder' which currently is not allowed.
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Old Aug 3, 2003, 08:29 PM   #5
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yep, this has been verified to be true. Case-sensitive format available in recent Panther build. Not available in Jaguar. Uncertain if this was available in the first Panther build.

[yes, Jaguar did have UFS which is case sensitive]

Last edited by arn; Aug 3, 2003 at 09:58 PM.
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Old Aug 3, 2003, 08:37 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by arn
yep, this has been verified to be true. Case-sensitive format available in recent Panther build. Not available in Jaguar. Uncertain if this was available in the first Panther build.
Even I could have told you that...

Hmmm the first build? Drat... not using that build...
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Old Aug 3, 2003, 08:39 PM   #7
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one reason

I don't know a lot about this, but I do know that you can't run the BSD package manager on OS X b/c it requires a case-sensitive file system. I guess this would allow that.
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Old Aug 3, 2003, 08:39 PM   #8
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So does anyone know if this will be the default on the actual shipping version of Pather preinstalled or will you have to format and reinstall to obtain this function on new computers with Panther?
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Old Aug 3, 2003, 08:43 PM   #9
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It would be cool to make it default. I hope it is.... I dont like having any inferiorities on my computer, and this is one.
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Old Aug 3, 2003, 08:43 PM   #10
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This is gonna make my life little more closer to hell!!! now we have to be sure if our log/pass was "mymemory" or "MyMemory" or "Mymemory".

I'm glad I worked with unix systems about 5 years ago and I was allways carefull about that, actually I felt paranoic about it but well, OSX wasn't build to make our life easier any way.

Some day I'm gonna have a lot of money and I'm gonna buy the rights of OS 9.2.2. and make 9.5 just for me
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Old Aug 3, 2003, 08:52 PM   #11
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OK, this is a VERY bad idea for a consumer OS. I'll go ******** insane.
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Old Aug 3, 2003, 09:02 PM   #12
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Bad idea for consumer os?

It's not the default value.

You have to *format* the partition for case sensitive/journelling HFS+.

It's an option, and a very good one for unix geeks to have, that way they can migrate from one 'nix to another.

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Old Aug 3, 2003, 09:04 PM   #13
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For the UNIX switchers

While I think case-insensitive and preserving is vastly better than case-sensitive, I do see that it's nice to have the option. I could see many universities replacing UNIX clusters with MacOS X G5's, now that you can essentially do everything with MacOS X you can do with UNIX.

Unfortunately UNIX picked case sensitive, probably because it takes less processing power and UNIX was written for the old PDP machines decades ago. And at this point, there are still some packages that actually depend on this functionality.

Oh well, as long as it remains a non-default option I'm ok with it.
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Old Aug 3, 2003, 09:05 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by mymemory
Some day I'm gonna have a lot of money and I'm gonna buy the rights of OS 9.2.2. and make 9.5 just for me [/B]
count me in! "9.5, the same old interface you love, plus protected memory, preemptive multitasking..."
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Old Aug 3, 2003, 09:06 PM   #15
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Re: Bad idea for consumer os?

Quote:
Originally posted by jaedreth
It's not the default value.

You have to *format* the partition for case sensitive/journelling HFS+.

It's an option, and a very good one for unix geeks to have, that way they can migrate from one 'nix to another.

Jaedreth
Yep, as long as they keep it *not* default, that's good. It will drive people ******** insane, and I hope Apple sticks on the path of user-friendliness. It's just easier and more intuitive to not have "BobJones" and "bobjones" be different. Remember, kids and old people use these machines. Kids and old people!
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Old Aug 3, 2003, 09:08 PM   #16
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I wonder if you can select case sensitive as a default for a BTO option. Wouldn't that help to be able to just check an option on the Apple store and have it automatically case sensitive or not when it is shipped to you instead of having to reformat and partition your drive and reinstall the OS just to get the feature? It seems like a promising feature, but I'd like to have it set up for me when I get it shipped instead of having to deal with redoing my system just to activate it after the fact.
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Old Aug 3, 2003, 09:10 PM   #17
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Re: Re: Bad idea for consumer os?

Quote:
Originally posted by bobindashadows
Yep, as long as they keep it *not* default, that's good. It will drive people ******** insane, and I hope Apple sticks on the path of user-friendliness. It's just easier and more intuitive to not have "BobJones" and "bobjones" be different. Remember, kids and old people use these machines. Kids and old people!
I agree about not making it the default. Also, am I correct in assuming that this doesn't apply to file extensions? That would really be messy.
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Old Aug 3, 2003, 09:10 PM   #18
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Case Sensetive/Journaled?

Anyone care to comment on the "journaled" aspect or is this something normal I'm mistaking for something else?
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Old Aug 3, 2003, 09:16 PM   #19
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I thought Case-sensitive was in Jaguar

Quote:
Originally posted by arn
yep, this has been verified to be true. Case-sensitive format available in recent Panther build. Not available in Jaguar. Uncertain if this was available in the first Panther build.
Case sensitivity is available in Jaguar, though you need to format your drive as a "Unix Drive". Instead of Macintosh HD, your HD is called "/".

I just created 2 files on My HD under Jaguar: Newfile.txt and NeWfile.txt -> seperate and distinct.

I guess the real guts of this information is not that it's case sensitive, but rather it's a HFS+ volume that is sensitive.

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Old Aug 3, 2003, 09:19 PM   #20
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this should be an option in the system prefs because some people want it, and other people won't know what to do with themselves. that is the oly way they can do it.
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Old Aug 3, 2003, 09:22 PM   #21
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not meant for you

Quote:
Originally posted by dermeister
OK, this is a VERY bad idea for a consumer OS. I'll go ******** insane.
I doubt if your already tenuous grasp on reality is taken into consideration when debating adding worthwhile and requested features to their OS.

OS X has had the option of formatting a partion using UFS since the early days, but no systems ship that way, nor is it the default option. A case-sensitive file system make sense (no pun intended) when working with legecy Unix programs expecting there to be one, especially from a security angle. Remember all the noise about the security hole created in Apache because of the case-insensitivity of HFS+? Apple had to add in a special mod to keep apache from giving up information is wasn't supposed to. For certain types of applications, it would be easier to use a case-sensitive file system, than to have to retrofit a zillion additional checks just to work on OS X.

When I refer to applications, I'm not referring to your average click-and-drool stuff found daily on VersionTracker, but special-purpose vertical applications that would run in a data center. (Think Xserve.)

If Apple wants to attract more Unix software developers, they need to provide features to support them. Not just die-hard OS9 lusers who choose to see no further than their own diminishing world.
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Old Aug 3, 2003, 09:24 PM   #22
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Panther still has UFS, but the new case-sensitivity is a feature added into hfs. if you format it as such, Disk Utility will only see it as Journaled, and can't tell if its case-sensitive (even immediately after a format), but it DOES work. However you can NOT install on a partition formatted like this (at least as of 7B21), it forces you to reformat as just HFS+, HFS+ (journaled), or UFS.

I hope by the time Panther is released, that it will let you install on a partition formatted this way. I'm looking forward to putting down my $129 for this, I can't wait.
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Old Aug 3, 2003, 09:26 PM   #23
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This will improve unix compatibility. You have to reformat old drives to enable it, but I'd expect new machines to ship with this turned on.

I don't understand why people think it'd drive them insane? Exactly where is the downside? You open a file, save it, close it, the name stays the same.

The only people who it should even impact at all is programmers who will have to fix the case on their include files.
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Old Aug 3, 2003, 09:27 PM   #24
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for the person who asked a journaled file system creates a "mini database" of information about the file system for faster file system checks and better reliability for recovering lost data due to power failure or a system failure.<br><br>
i saw the case sensitive option when i installed the panther beta 2, i just hope they give us jaguar people an option to upgrade an hfs+ file system to hfs+ case sensitive without formatting.
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Old Aug 3, 2003, 09:29 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by BaghdadBob
Case Sensetive/Journaled?

Anyone care to comment on the "journaled" aspect or is this something normal I'm mistaking for something else?
The journaled file system is already there in Jaguar if you want to use it. On OS X Server, activating it consists of a checkbox in the DiskUtility. On OS X (regular) it's available merely by issuing a command:

Code:
% sudo diskutil enableJournal /
(diskutil is the command-line equivalent of the DiskUtility)
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