20" screen fade clarification

[addz]

Having read up about this, would it be clear to say that the screen fading from top to bottom is a general characteristic of the TN displays in the imac? And not a general fault with the 20" as many users seem to be "representing" the situation as being.

Ive been using a laptop which ovs has a TN display and just recently noticed a slight fade effect, and tbh hasent bothered me much. Is this similar to the imac 20" or more noticed?

It seems that many have just calibrated the hardware display and this situation is now non existant, whereas with others still notice "effect" on their monitor which leads me to believe some could be faulty?

Dont get me wrong the 24" is lovely, and as much as i would live to buy it, its just a lil too big for me.

To summarize: 20" TN display characteristic or/and a fault with some imacs?

Thanks.

[shipdestroyer]

It's a characteristic of TN displays. You may not notice it on your laptop because the screen is smaller, but it's on the 20" iMac for sure.

edit: Calibration won't help much--it's a hardware thing.

[teerexx52]

Originally Posted by addz

Having read up about this, would it be clear to say that the screen fading from top to bottom is a general characteristic of the TN displays in the imac? And not a general fault with the 20" as many users seem to be "representing" the situation as being.

Ive been using a laptop which ovs has a TN display and just recently noticed a slight fade effect, and tbh hasent bothered me much. Is this similar to the imac 20" or more noticed?

It seems that many have just calibrated the hardware display and this situation is now non existant, whereas with others still notice "effect" on their monitor which leads me to believe some could be faulty?

Dont get me wrong the 24" is lovely, and as much as i would live to buy it, its just a lil too big for me.

To summarize: 20" TN display characteristic or/and a fault with some imacs?

Thanks.

I have a 20" and calibrated the display. There is some difference from top to bottom on the display but nothing I notice or that bothers me in every day use. I find the screen very nice.

[mrmjd]

You can get away with a tn display in a laptop more because they are smaller screens, and the distance your eyes are from the top, right, bottom and left of the screen isn't as great as say on a 20 inch screen, which is bigger and creates a greater distance and angle, which causes the inconsistencies in the colour of the output as your eye to screen angle is naturally increased.

[mrgreen4242]

Nevermind, I think I misread what was being said.

[paetrick]

Originally Posted by addz

Having read up about this, would it be clear to say that the screen fading from top to bottom is a general characteristic of the TN displays in the imac? And not a general fault with the 20" as many users seem to be "representing" the situation as being.

Ive been using a laptop which ovs has a TN display and just recently noticed a slight fade effect, and tbh hasent bothered me much. Is this similar to the imac 20" or more noticed?

It seems that many have just calibrated the hardware display and this situation is now non existant, whereas with others still notice "effect" on their monitor which leads me to believe some could be faulty?

Dont get me wrong the 24" is lovely, and as much as i would live to buy it, its just a lil too big for me.

To summarize: 20" TN display characteristic or/and a fault with some imacs?

Thanks.

There's a little bit difference from top to bottom, but no where near as low quility as on "for example" my 1 year old laptop dell.

TN = CRAP - is untrue, Most tft screens (consumer screens) uses tn panels, and when looking at the "grades" - from buyers on those screens it seems like a non problem. For example the HP W2207 got very good grades and does use a TN panel.

Designer's which needs 100% perfection in their work, clearly want something more than a tn. But they also earn much and i don't think most designer's look at 1500 dollar computers - at least not the company i had my practice in :P, The screens they had was 1000 dollar screens and they were a little company.

[l33r0y]

Originally Posted by paetrick

There's a little bit difference from top to bottom, but no where near as low quility as on "for example" my 1 year old laptop dell.

TN = CRAP - is untrue, Most tft screens (consumer screens) uses tn panels, and when looking at the "grades" - from buyers on those screens it seems like a non problem. For example the HP W2207 got very good grades and does use a TN panel.

Designer's which needs 100% perfection in their work, clearly want something more than a tn. But they also earn much and i don't think most designer's look at 1500 dollar computers - at least not the company i had my practice in :P, The screens they had was 1000 dollar screens and they were a little company.

It's all relative. Once you work with a S-IPS/S-PVA panel and look back to TN, the difference is clear - you wouldn't want to go back to old tech again.

You don't need to be a professional to appreciate a clear diiference in quality (or maybe I'm just a snob with impeccable taste! )

[mrmjd]

Originally Posted by l33r0y

It's all relative. Once you work with a S-IPS/S-PVA panel and look back to TN, the difference is clear - you wouldn't want to go back to old tech again.

You don't need to be a professional to appreciate a clear diiference in quality (or maybe I'm just a snob with impeccable taste! )

I still find it pretty strange that Apple would put in a n inferior panel to the previous generation. It's a bit like putting 512 MB or RAM in the new iMacs where's the old ones came with 1GB!

[l33r0y]

Originally Posted by mrmjd

I still find it pretty strange that Apple would put in a n inferior panel to the previous generation. It's a bit like putting 512 MB or RAM in the new iMacs where's the old ones came with 1GB!

Not strange when you see how much they've reduced the price by.

Still, it would have been nice to have a BTO upgrade to a S-IPS panel

[addz]

Dam apple trying to make me buy a 24". Im gonna go check it out myself tomoz. But seriously though you have helped me to bring back my confidence in buying a 20".

Im sure Apple have there reasons in including this type of display on the 20". They prop think its as good as what a "standard" user may need/use. And im sure the majority dont even know the difference or "care".

[mrmjd]

Originally Posted by l33r0y

Not strange when you see how much they've reduced the price by.

Still, it would have been nice to have a BTO upgrade to a S-IPS panel

I think if you ask most Apple users, they would rather the better screen than the reduced price. If price is an issue in buying a computer then Apple is clearly not a good option.

[mrmjd]

Originally Posted by addz

Dam apple trying to make me buy a 24". Im gonna go check it out myself tomoz. But seriously though you have helped me to bring back my confidence in buying a 20".

Im sure Apple have there reasons in including this type of display on the 20". They prop think its as good as what a "standard" user may need/use. And im sure the majority dont even know the difference or "care".

In exactly the same boat mate! I need a decent display but really don't want to have to fork out and find room for the 24 inch! I'm checking it out on Friday but really hoping the tn panel is a load of old fuss over nothing!!

[mrgreen4242]

Originally Posted by mrmjd

I think if you ask most Apple users, they would rather the better screen than the reduced price. If price is an issue in buying a computer then Apple is clearly not a good option.

I think you are completely wrong. One of, if not the biggest complaint from Mac users and potential switchers is how expensive Macs are. I think that doing what they can to get the price of the iMac down is a Good Thing (tm). I think they made a mistake not offering a nicer, S-IPS or PVA, matte display for ~$100-150 BTO option was a mistake, but getting the price down on their CONSUMER systems was a great move.

[Alloye]

Originally Posted by teerexx52

I have a 20" and calibrated the display. There is some difference from top to bottom on the display but nothing I notice or that bothers me in every day use. I find the screen very nice.

This mirrors my experience with the new 20" as well. It's really a nice display. I actually find it more pleasing to look at overall than my 20" Core Duo. Everything is very crisp and clean looking.

In any case, people should be aware that every one of the LCD technologies on the market today have trade offs. One characteristic I never cared for with both of my S-IPS displays (20" iMac CD and 23" ACD) is that while they have very rich color from almost any angle, they also have a slightly grainy/fuzzy look to them. I also find they aren't very good at presenting highlights and fine detail in live video.

Contrast this with the TN panel in the new iMac, which is crystal clear and makes DVDs look almost hi-def. The downside, of course, are the reduced viewing angles.

Finally, I can't stress enough that Apple is shipping the 20" with a very poor color profile. The out-of-box gamma values are a disgrace that drive the panel to completely crush the top end. The result is washed out mid-tones and flattened gradients. I honestly don't understand why they do this.

[paetrick]

Originally Posted by Alloye

This mirrors my experience with the new 20" as well. It's really a nice display. I actually find it more pleasing to look at overall than my 20" Core Duo. Everything is very crisp and clean looking.

In any case, people should be aware that every one of the LCD technologies on the market today have trade offs. One characteristic I never cared for with both of my S-IPS displays (20" iMac CD and 23" ACD) is that while they have very rich color from almost any angle, they also have a slightly grainy/fuzzy look to them. I also find they aren't very good at presenting highlights and fine detail in live video.

Contrast this with the TN panel in the new iMac, which is crystal clear and makes DVDs look almost hi-def. The downside, of course, are the reduced viewing angles.

Finally, I can't stress enough that Apple is shipping the 20" with a very poor color profile. The out-of-box gamma values are a disgrace that drive the panel to completely crush the top end. The result is washed out mid-tones and flattened gradients. I honestly don't understand why they do this.

What color profile do u use?!

[Alloye]

Originally Posted by paetrick

What color profile do u use?!

I created one with a hardware calibrator and posted it here. One person reported that it gave their screen a pink cast and a couple more reported that it made theirs too blue. This is probably due to normal variance from panel to panel. (Hardware calibration is specific to a given screen.)

In any case, the thread mentioned above has at least one alternative profile and some suggestions for creating your own. Another thing that might work for you is the "Adobe RGB (1998)" profile. This isn't really a display profile at all, so your LCD will run with linear lookup tables at its native color temperature and native gamma. I actually tried this on mine and it looks surprisingly good.

[teerexx52]

Originally Posted by Alloye

I created one with a hardware calibrator and posted it here. One person reported that it gave their screen a pink cast and a couple more reported that it made theirs too blue. This is probably due to normal variance from panel to panel. (Hardware calibration is specific to a given screen.)

In any case, the thread mentioned above has at least one alternative profile and some suggestions for creating your own. Another thing that might work for you is the "Adobe RGB (1998)" profile. This isn't really a display profile at all, so your LCD will run with linear lookup tables at its native color temperature and native gamma. I actually tried this on mine and it looks surprisingly good.

I use this profile as well along with one called Perfect-4271A80.icc Both work well. I still say its a nice screen and the computer is priced right. Thanks for the profile!