Apple's Negotiations and the iPhone in Europe

MacRumors · Sep 17, 2007, 12:49 AM

The Guardian reports on more confirmation that O2 will be the exclusive carrier of the iPhone in the UK. They also claim that T-Mobile for Germany and Orange in France will be announced on Wednesday and Thursday respectively.

Of interest, they describe that Apple pursued a "divide and conquer" strategy in partnering the iPhone in Europe, pitting carriers against each other. In the end, O2 won the deal, but at a high price:

Quote:

...at the 11th hour O2 snatched the UK deal with an offer that gave such a high proportion of revenues to Apple that none of its competitors could see any way of making any return on the phone, even over three years. They believed that even if it was treated as purely a loss-leading marketing product, a better return could be had by spending the money elsewhere.

Apple is hosting a media event in London at 10am local time on Tuesday September 18th, 2007. While Apple is widely expected to launch the UK iPhone at that time, there are conflicting reports on the details.

ThinkSecret believes the iPhone will ship in the UK during the week of November 12th, and expect another media event around September 24th for France. Meanwhile, Gizmodo expects the UK iPhone to ship by the end of October.

Article Link

Buschmaster · Sep 17, 2007, 12:58 AM

This is good news for all of the Europeans who need an iPhone fix. However, I don't think the iPhone will do so hot if it doesn't have 3G. And I don't think Europe will get 3G before America...

NewSc2 · Sep 17, 2007, 01:01 AM

that's pretty retarded... with the unlock coming around the corner, why would somebody bid that high?

CalBoy · Sep 17, 2007, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buschmaster

And I don't think Europe will get 3G before America...

Actually, a simultaneous rollout is more likely. Europe is a more demanding phone market. Apple won't be able to drag its feet with a feature if the population over there feels its necessary.

On a side note, it's interesting that the UK carrier is not going to make much money off of the deal in terms of iPhone plan sales; I'm guessing they're banking on other products and services being able to make up the shortfall?

egibney · Sep 17, 2007, 01:14 AM

This is wonderful for our European based iPhone fans but what about us here in Canada?

BKKbill · Sep 17, 2007, 01:15 AM

It seems to me that if you squeeze the carriers so hard there will not be incentive for them to push apple phone sales as hard.

matthewHUB · Sep 17, 2007, 01:23 AM

O2 just care about their customer base. they'd give anything to beat Vodafone in the 'most popular' or 'most talked on' network. They've been underdogs for some time now and i reckon they'll do anything to get more subscribers on O2.

my $0.02

CHROMEDOME · Sep 17, 2007, 01:23 AM

The iPhone's success in Europe depends on 3G.

ebouwman · Sep 17, 2007, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by egibney

This is wonderful for our European based iPhone fans but what about us here in Canada?

Thats what i've been thinking, maybe they're not trying as hard to sell it to us because we dont' have the same kind of population as europe, but how does that make me feel!

shadowmoses · Sep 17, 2007, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHROMEDOME

The iPhone's success in Europe depends on 3G.

Yes and no, If 02 offer a good EDGE service, people will unlikely not care so long as they can access web/e-mail on the move at reasonable speeds they will be happy......3g is on its was but I am pretty sure we won't see it in the UK in the first iPhone release. The hardware will most likely be the same as what is offered in the US.

ShadoW

TurboSC · Sep 17, 2007, 01:36 AM

Man Apple sure knows how to pull people's strings... but I mean it's the iPhone... Everyone saw how it carried AT&T to the next level, it can't be that much different for the UK... Then again the whole iPhone unlocking does add a twist to the story... I guess we'll find out soon!

BillyShears · 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by egibney

This is wonderful for our European based iPhone fans but what about us here in Canada?

As I understand it:

The only cell phone provider in Canada that could work with the iPhone is Rogers (iPhone uses GSM)
Rogers has terrible data rates
In the States, iPhone requires a data plan

I am thinking they want to include a data plan with the iPhone (so customers get the whole feel), but they could only go with Rogers, whose rates are crap. Not to mention they need the provider to rework their network (visual voicemail), and probably other conditions. But they can't do much here, because they can't play Rogers against anyone as they did in the States and Europe.

I'm sure it will happen, but the cost of redesigning the iPhone to work with other providers will probably outweigh the benefit of subscribers in Canada (for the time being).

mjonson · Sep 17, 2007, 01:54 AM

i've heard 40% of revenue is going to apple ... that would be insane

ebouwman · Sep 17, 2007, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyShears

As I understand it:

The only cell phone provider in Canada that could work with the iPhone is Rogers (iPhone uses GSM)
Rogers has terrible data rates
In the States, iPhone requires a data plan

I am thinking they want to include a data plan with the iPhone (so customers get the whole feel), but they could only go with Rogers, whose rates are crap. Not to mention they need the provider to rework their network (visual voicemail), and probably other conditions. But they can't do much here, because they can't play Rogers against anyone as they did in the States and Europe.

I'm sure it will happen, but the cost of redesigning the iPhone to work with other providers will probably outweigh the benefit of subscribers in Canada (for the time being).

I have to say that Rogers is THE WORST carrier in Canada ...worst contracts, worst rates, worst coverage...

If iPhone comes to Canada with Rogers I will not buy it, and i know lots of people who feel the same way.

mjonson · Sep 17, 2007, 01:58 AM

biggest problem with Rogers is it doesnt work outside of major cities.... i had no choice but to go with a bell or telus phone, even though i live in a city, as i am often on the road.

iJed · Sep 17, 2007, 02:04 AM

If the iPhone is not 3G in the UK then Apple are going sell considerably fewer units than if it did have 3G. I think it would be a big mistake to release this in Europe without the 3G radio. Especially if they hope to charge similar prices to the US.

weckart · Sep 17, 2007, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjonson

i've heard 40% of revenue is going to apple ... that would be insane

Yep. Reported on the Money programme today on 5 Live, so it sounds like a City rumour and those usually have legs to stand on. If so, those O2 plans are going to be wallet busting. The iPhone hack will consequently be one of the most popular downloads this year.

Doctor Q · Sep 17, 2007, 02:05 AM

Whether the carriers that partner with Apple make much money off these deals will probably depend on the actual iPhone sales over the next year(s), and nobody knows what those sales figures will be. It's not a guaranteed return on investment, so the "winner" in each market may be either the company that "wins" the iPhone deal or the companies that pass on the deal.

sbrownla · Sep 17, 2007, 02:15 AM

just get one and unlock it.

cervaro · Sep 17, 2007, 02:18 AM

The lack of 3G would be a backward step in Europe, and Apple should realise that. People like the latest technology, and no 3G would make it look the iPhone look a bit crippled. The cost of data traffic will also be a factor in the iPhones success over here too, and it can be very expensive (from bitter experience), so hopefully O2 will address that matter too.

What would Apple have done if all the carriers hadn't played ball and given them the finger to their demands? I think 40% of revenues sucks, and I would have told them where to poke the iPhone too. Vodafone aren't as successful as they are without knowing the mobile phone business, so kudos to them for not signing up.

MattDell · Sep 17, 2007, 02:18 AM

Do you realize how awesome that would be if they released the iPhone in the UK on September 18th? I'm moving to London on the 20th!!!

firestarter · Sep 17, 2007, 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weckart

Yep. Reported on the Money programme today on 5 Live, so it sounds like a City rumour and those usually have legs to stand on. If so, those O2 plans are going to be wallet busting. The iPhone hack will consequently be one of the most popular downloads this year.

Agreed.

This mad deal with O2 is not good news. O2 are going to have some serious lock-in on their contracts, and high prices too

Maybe I should just get the iTouch this time 'round. I'm not going to be locked in to O2 for 3 years.

Sabenth · Sep 17, 2007, 02:36 AM

it would be interesting if it was to be released then but again no one knows really whats going to happen and if o2 have paid way over the top we the end user will end up suffering again. Iam happy with my nokia on t mobile and unlimited net usage not sure iam prepared to o2s data rate prices.

villainx · Sep 17, 2007, 02:41 AM

Personally, I rather Apple create a win win for the carriers. They provide the service, and improve service will only be better for Apple.

ma2ha3 · 06:50 AM

why cant apple just make a phone, why need to fix carrier?
i see that 3G most unlikely appear in europe now
but since gsm does not work in japan, only 3G will introduce in japan next year.
at that time, maybe it will appear in europe

microsoft got a 600 millions dollar fine. let apple try to lock user on one carrier, we will see how long it takes for EU courts to fine apple. hopefully, give them a huge fine, that will teach them about locking user.

Sep 17, 2007, 12:58 AM	#2
Buschmaster macrumors 65816 Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Minnesota	This is good news for all of the Europeans who need an iPhone fix. However, I don't think the iPhone will do so hot if it doesn't have 3G. And I don't think Europe will get 3G before America... __________________ White MacBook (9400m), 2.0 GHz, 160GB HDD, 4GB RAM iPhone 3G 16GB White www.mintapps.com

Sep 17, 2007, 01:01 AM	#3
NewSc2 macrumors 6502a Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA	that's pretty retarded... with the unlock coming around the corner, why would somebody bid that high? __________________ Mac Pro + 30" ACD, 15" MBP, iPhone 3GS Logic & Ableton user Canon 40D + 17-55 f/2.8 IS

Sep 17, 2007, 01:14 AM	#5
egibney macrumors newbie Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Edmonton, Canada	What About Other Markets This is wonderful for our European based iPhone fans but what about us here in Canada?

Sep 17, 2007, 01:15 AM	#6
BKKbill macrumors 6502 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Location: Location: it's all about location and that would be Bangkok, Thailand	It seems to me that if you squeeze the carriers so hard there will not be incentive for them to push apple phone sales as hard. __________________ 24" iMac (Aluminum) 2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 3 GB RAM It's never just a game when you're winning.

Sep 17, 2007, 01:23 AM	#8
CHROMEDOME macrumors regular Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Bay Area/LA	The iPhone's success in Europe depends on 3G. __________________ Whitebook 2.0ghz CD 2gb Rev A iMac G5 coming soon...Sony VX2000

Sep 17, 2007, 01:23 AM	#7
matthewHUB macrumors 6502 Join Date: Nov 2005	O2 just care about their customer base. they'd give anything to beat Vodafone in the 'most popular' or 'most talked on' network. They've been underdogs for some time now and i reckon they'll do anything to get more subscribers on O2. my $0.02

Sep 17, 2007, 01:36 AM	#11
TurboSC macrumors 65816 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: California	Man Apple sure knows how to pull people's strings... but I mean it's the iPhone... Everyone saw how it carried AT&T to the next level, it can't be that much different for the UK... Then again the whole iPhone unlocking does add a twist to the story... I guess we'll find out soon! __________________ www.sciphone.net - The best iPhone wallpapers and applications on the Internet. Now serving: 8280+ Wallpapers \| 38,000+ Applications.

Sep 17, 2007, 01:54 AM	#13
mjonson macrumors newbie Join Date: Mar 2007	i've heard 40% of revenue is going to apple ... that would be insane

Sep 17, 2007, 01:58 AM	#15
mjonson macrumors newbie Join Date: Mar 2007	biggest problem with Rogers is it doesnt work outside of major cities.... i had no choice but to go with a bell or telus phone, even though i live in a city, as i am often on the road.

Sep 17, 2007, 02:04 AM	#16
iJed macrumors 6502 Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: West Sussex, UK	If its not 3G... If the iPhone is not 3G in the UK then Apple are going sell considerably fewer units than if it did have 3G. I think it would be a big mistake to release this in Europe without the 3G radio. Especially if they hope to charge similar prices to the US.

Sep 17, 2007, 02:05 AM	#18
Doctor Q macrumors god Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: at the table with countless relatives	Whether the carriers that partner with Apple make much money off these deals will probably depend on the actual iPhone sales over the next year(s), and nobody knows what those sales figures will be. It's not a guaranteed return on investment, so the "winner" in each market may be either the company that "wins" the iPhone deal or the companies that pass on the deal. __________________ "You've just been abducted, of course you need crepes!" -- Walter Bishop

Sep 17, 2007, 02:15 AM	#19
sbrownla macrumors member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Arizona	unlock... seriously just get one and unlock it.

Sep 17, 2007, 02:18 AM	#20
cervaro macrumors regular Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Kent, UK	The lack of 3G would be a backward step in Europe, and Apple should realise that. People like the latest technology, and no 3G would make it look the iPhone look a bit crippled. The cost of data traffic will also be a factor in the iPhones success over here too, and it can be very expensive (from bitter experience), so hopefully O2 will address that matter too. What would Apple have done if all the carriers hadn't played ball and given them the finger to their demands? I think 40% of revenues sucks, and I would have told them where to poke the iPhone too. Vodafone aren't as successful as they are without knowing the mobile phone business, so kudos to them for not signing up.

Sep 17, 2007, 02:18 AM	#21
MattDell macrumors regular Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: London, UK	Do you realize how awesome that would be if they released the iPhone in the UK on September 18th? I'm moving to London on the 20th!!!

Sep 17, 2007, 02:36 AM	#23
Sabenth macrumors 6502a Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: UK	it would be interesting if it was to be released then but again no one knows really whats going to happen and if o2 have paid way over the top we the end user will end up suffering again. Iam happy with my nokia on t mobile and unlimited net usage not sure iam prepared to o2s data rate prices. __________________ http://www.icompositions.com/artists/Lapskin/ Yep i am lapskin

Sep 17, 2007, 02:41 AM	#24
villainx macrumors newbie Join Date: Jul 2007	Personally, I rather Apple create a win win for the carriers. They provide the service, and improve service will only be better for Apple.

Sep 17, 2007, 02:41 AM	#25
ma2ha3 macrumors member Join Date: Mar 2007	why cant apple just make a phone, why need to fix carrier? i see that 3G most unlikely appear in europe now but since gsm does not work in japan, only 3G will introduce in japan next year. at that time, maybe it will appear in europe microsoft got a 600 millions dollar fine. let apple try to lock user on one carrier, we will see how long it takes for EU courts to fine apple. hopefully, give them a huge fine, that will teach them about locking user. Last edited by ma2ha3 : Sep 17, 2007 at 06:50 AM.

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