iPhone 1.1.1 Harder to Hack?

[MacRumors]

You may have noticed that talk of installing 3rd party applications onto the iPod Touch has been notably absent in the weeks since the iPod Touch launch.

Ambrosia's Andrew Welch notes that the new system will be much harder to hack, even for an application like iToner:

Here's what we know. It looks like Apple is locking down the iPhone with encryption and signing, the same way they locked down the iPod Touch. We're working to see what we can find out, if there is a way around it, we will find it.

But this is not a good curve that Apple has thrown at us.

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[willxm]

Not cool. Not cool at all. 3rd party apps are what make the iphone so great. They bring more functionality and entertainment. And from what I have experienced the iphone runs 3rd party apps pretty well, makes you wonder if apple wanted to protect the stability of the iphone or if they have another agenda.

[crees!]

Originally Posted by willxm

And from what I have experienced the iphone runs 3rd party apps pretty well, makes you wonder if apple wanted to protect the stability of the iphone or if they have another agenda.

My guess would be both and rightfully so.

[plumbingandtech]

Not cool. Not cool at all. 3rd party apps are what make the iphone so great.

IYO. IMO what makes the iPhone so great is the interface, the ipod, the mail, safari, the ease of use, the seemless syncing, the iphoto camera integration........


Wonder if we will hear cries of "iToner Rebate!" if this can not be solved?

[shadowfax]

Originally Posted by plumbingandtech

IYO. IMO what makes the iPhone so great is the interface, the ipod, the mail, safari, the ease of use, the seemless syncing, the iphoto camera integration........


Wonder if we will hear cries of "iToner Rebate!" if this can not be solved?

Uhh, if you think that the Mail application makes the iPhone great, I question your sanity. That program is the biggest pain in the butt! I will agree with you that the iPod, Safari, and overall ease of use are phenomenal, and I would add that the actual phone experience is one of the best parts of the whole deal.

3rd party applications certainly aren't the mainstay of the iPhone, but they added a ton of value to the iPhone. And I really hope that no one here is going to say that Web 2.0 is a decent compromise. It's a load of crap. Have you ever tried to play Bejeweled for the iPhone on your iPhone? it's choppy and crappy. Compare that to a native app like Lights Off or FiveDice--there is no comparison, Web 2.0 is slow as crap, native apps are fast and smooth.

[ppc_michael]

Tsk tsk tsk.

On one hand, Apple's not selling the iPod Touch as a personal computer, so what do we expect.

On the other hand, I have not seen things as cool as the 3rd party iPhone apps in a very long time, and it's pretty idiotic to not look the other way while other people make the iPod Touch a really awesome device.

[nato64]

I am really torn about this.

My iPhone was hacked with 10+ awesome applications, OpenSSH so I could upload my own ringtones... it had tons of awesome stuff.

So I was pissed when I had to restore and get rid of all that stuff. But I did it because my iPhone became bloated. I don't know what it was. I cannot pinpoint a specific application I installed. But slowly things weren't running smoothly on my iPhone.

And it was never more apparent than when my iPhone first booted into 1.1.1 and it was screaming fast, simple, and sleek. It's like I forgot what it felt like.

While I think we would all benefit from a somewhat open dialogue with 3rd Party Devs, we have to remember that what Apple has always done best is protecting users from themselves.

Like I said, I'm torn. But I'm very happy with how fantastic 1.1.1 runs.

[yayaba]

Originally Posted by nato64

I am really torn about this.

My iPhone was hacked with 10+ awesome applications, OpenSSH so I could upload my own ringtones... it had tons of awesome stuff.

So I was pissed when I had to restore and get rid of all that stuff. But I did it because my iPhone became bloated. I don't know what it was. I cannot pinpoint a specific application I installed. But slowly things weren't running smoothly on my iPhone.

And it was never more apparent than when my iPhone first booted into 1.1.1 and it was screaming fast, simple, and sleek. It's like I forgot what it felt like.

While I think we would all benefit from a somewhat open dialogue with 3rd Party Devs, we have to remember that what Apple has always done best is protecting users from themselves.

Like I said, I'm torn. But I'm very happy with how fantastic 1.1.1 runs.

It might be Summerboard. I've noticed the same. Sometimes unlocking my phone causes it to lock again really quickly when it never did that before. Other times my screen flickers on/off real quick and then locks itself for no reason.

I'll probably put 1.1.1 on when I get home. Only apps I'll really miss are Finder, NES, iBlackJack, and Customize. Actually, that's a lot

[iWizzard]

This relly sux, I will not buy an iphone if it is not possible to install 3d party apps. Lack of IM messenger that always run in the background is an deal breaker.

[LSK6453]

if itoner cannot work at all, are they refunding money?

They did say it would work through ALL firmware updates

I did not buy, but I am curious

[shadowfax]

Originally Posted by yayaba

It might be Summerboard. I've noticed the same. Sometimes unlocking my phone causes it to lock again really quickly when it never did that before. Other times my screen flickers on/off real quick and then locks itself for no reason.

I'll probably put 1.1.1 on when I get home. Only apps I'll really miss are Finder, NES, iBlackJack, and Customize. Actually, that's a lot

crap, not to mention Apollo... Ugh, this is kind of aggravating. on the other hand, all encryption is crackable. The iPhone will not support encryption that can't be broken by a Core (2) Duo--a chip with probably 20-50 times the computing power of the iPhone. Remember how long openssh takes to do an RSA handshake on the darn thing? it's like a minute. This will be gotten around. And who knows, maybe it will be better for the platform overall. Sounds like a major setback, though. Time to call DVD Jon....

[ChronoIMG]

Originally Posted by yayaba

It might be Summerboard. I've noticed the same. Sometimes unlocking my phone causes it to lock again really quickly when it never did that before. Other times my screen flickers on/off real quick and then locks itself for no reason.

I have all of these issues and have NEVER EVER installed a single hack on my virgin iPhone running 1.0.2. I seriously think the iPhone OS was rushed.

[jonnylink]

This makes things like Linux Phone start to look more appealing to me.

[plumbingandtech]

we're capable of making those decisions and, surely,

A computer has a plug that goes into the wall and gets unlimited power.The iphone can get drained in no time by a bad programmer. The iphone has less ram. Less space. etc..

Not exact comparisons.

Apple would avoid a lot of trouble by providing a SAFE environment in which developers can operate rather than working so hard to lock everybody out and forcing them to develop without access.

Of course. But they have not yet. The "cost" people are paying now is not their fault. (re installing apps.)

I don't know much about hacking, except that it seems that nothing is completely unhackable. I hope that's the case with this too.

Yep. Prob 2 months or less.

As much as I love my unlocked iphone, Apple's current attitude really turns me off from the iphone and makes me consider returning it and just getting a phone I can do what I want with, even if it means losing the coolness of the iphone. Anybody else feel the same way?

Their attitude is the iphone runs all the stuff they said it does, very well. If people want to hack beyond it

The product performs as advertised. If you abs. need some 3rd party app then the iphone may not be for you, if you want to "do whatever you want with it" buy another phone.

Buy an openmoko. It won't be an iphone that's for sure...

[wizard]

Originally Posted by jonnylink

This makes things like Linux Phone start to look more appealing to me.

Yes it does. So does Motorola's efforts at Linux based phones. I especially like OpenMoko though. It is very open with only a few tiny hardware issues.

The problem with OpenMoko is simply this they need to get development moving faster. I'm hoping that we see viable software and hardware buy the end of the year.

In any event I've had the emulator working from time to time and OpenMoko does look good and is progressing forward. The only issue I can see is that it doesn't hardware wise have enough storage capacity. Storage is the one thing that Apple has gotten right.

Dave

[plumbingandtech]

One thing that was very noticeable was the battery drain. Compared to having no 3rd party apps installed, my battery life seemed nearly cut in half.

And IMO this has ALWAYS been the reason (along with lack of time for a finalized API and the use of Leopard tech?).

If apple had opened it on day one we would have had complaint after complaint about 1 hr battery life since they installed X 3rd part app. (TO say nothing of apple's update being a nightmare not because of apple but because 3rd party app X has changed or moved something in the OS.)

How to solve?

Time, finalized APIs, limit 3rdparty app CPU use AND ENCRYPTION. So a program has to go thru a certification program before being blessed by apple and the encryption can help ensure the app is the app.

[Merlyn3D]

Originally Posted by plumbingandtech

And IMO this has ALWAYS been the reason (along with lack of time for a finalized API and the use of Leopard tech?).

If apple had opened it on day one we would have had complaint after complaint about 1 hr battery life since they installed X 3rd part app. (TO say nothing of apple's update being a nightmare not because of apple but because 3rd party app X has changed or moved something in the OS.)

How to solve?

Time, finalized APIs, limit 3rdparty app CPU use AND ENCRYPTION. So a program has to go thru a certification program before being blessed by apple and the encryption can help ensure the app is the app.

No, if Apple had told devs how to develop for the iPhone with an SDK things would be better. Devs would know how to minimize power consumption, etc. As it is now, Apple (officially) doesn't want any other native apps on the iPhone other than its own, and that is wrong.

The least they could do is give us some sort of indication that an SDK for 3rd party devs would be released in a given timeframe, but they haven't even committed to that. It's because know one knows if an SDK is even coming that people are literally trying to hack in to run native apps. Come on Apple, at least tell us if we're getting an SDK. No one likes this web2.0 crap apps on a mobile phone, especially on an airplane. Plus web2.0 apps have no where near the performance or functionality of NATIVE apps.

[jt2ga65]

Originally Posted by plumbingandtech

And IMO this has ALWAYS been the reason (along with lack of time for a finalized API and the use of Leopard tech?).

It's funny. The more applications I have installed on my iPhone, the LONGER the battery has lasted. I'm not saying that it's a cause-effect, but that when I got the phone, I hat to recharge nightly. Not I can almost go three days without charging.

Time, finalized APIs, limit 3rdparty app CPU use AND ENCRYPTION. So a program has to go thru a certification program before being blessed by apple and the encryption can help ensure the app is the app.

Apple has always been a closed architecture company. This is the one thing that has hurt them the most, and why the lion's share of free software runs on Windows or on Linux/BSD first. And many of the best programs never make it to an Apple platform. Really, it's the only reason why I can't convince myself to get an Apple laptop. I don't want to pay $1500 for a program to edit my videos when I'm using a freeware program now that has no Apple equivalently.

Apple locking the iPhone is just plain stupid, and absolutely 100% in line with the way that Apple always has been.

-jt2

[Twinkie]

Yeah, using signing and encryption to lock down a device that constantly spews data back and forth, contains your calendar, contacts, and personal e-mail is a really stupid idea.

[benspratling]

Originally Posted by Twinkie

Yeah, using signing and encryption to lock down a device that constantly spews data back and forth, contains your calendar, contacts, and personal e-mail is a really stupid idea.

What, like a computer?

[Twinkie]

Originally Posted by benspratling

What, like a computer?

Sort of, yeah.

[PDE]

Maybe the plan is to release this update, get the hackers going, and then when a hack comes out, release a proper update....and so on and so forth...

[Rot'nApple]

Originally Posted by willxm

Not cool. Not cool at all. 3rd party apps are what make the iphone so great. They bring more functionality and entertainment. And from what I have experienced the iphone runs 3rd party apps pretty well, makes you wonder if apple wanted to protect the stability of the iphone or if they have another agenda.

Are 3rd party apps the same as the web stuff for the iPhone using AJAX and Safari? I thought Steve said this was a way for developers to get around the iPhone's closed system. Is Apple revoking "apps" that used that method?

[crees!]

Originally Posted by Rot'nApple

Are 3rd party apps the same as the web stuff for the iPhone using AJAX and Safari? I thought Steve said this was a way for developers to get around the iPhone's closed system. Is Apple revoking "apps" that used that method?

No. Two similar, but separate things. The "web apps" are the official way to create apps for iPhone and Apple fully supports this. The other method, the hacks you hear of, install actual apps on iPhone and void your warranty.

[Chip NoVaMac]

Originally Posted by crees!

No. Two similar, but separate things. The "web apps" are the official way to create apps for iPhone and Apple fully supports this. The other method, the hacks you hear of, install actual apps on iPhone and void your warranty.

One would think that AT&T would be all over Apple to allow true apps vs web apps to lighten the network load...