Apple Geniuses are reportedly unbricking iPhones

pugnut · Sep 27, 2007, 09:54 PM

A friend of mine told me that he walked into the Tyson corner store and they fixed it for him. He got his phone back in about 15 minutes.

http://www.tuaw.com/2007/09/27/apple...cking-iphones/

one1 · Sep 27, 2007, 10:03 PM

This has to do with the "moss" debacle. Apple is treading a very thin line on bricking over an unlock and I think they are realizing the backlash is coming. Seems like they just might have to do this to keep the class action from coming as doing this brick lock violates federal law in regards to the moss law.

odHbo · Sep 27, 2007, 11:37 PM

Ugh, Stupid people....

Apple is a very generous company. I'll tell you that.

Unspeaked · Sep 27, 2007, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by odHbo

Ugh, Stupid people....

Apple is a very generous company. I'll tell you that.

Yeah, they generously cover their behind...

jt2ga65 · Sep 28, 2007, 12:04 AM

Moss law? Only I see from searching for that is referenced to the federal lemon law for cars. You have more of a reference? I'd love to be more informed.

-jt2

Canuck4 · Sep 28, 2007, 12:07 AM

Seems like more work for Apple.
They'll probably have the same people every few days trying to hack their iphones and keep going back to have them unbricked.

one1 · Sep 28, 2007, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jt2ga65

Moss law? Only I see from searching for that is referenced to the federal lemon law for cars. You have more of a reference? I'd love to be more informed.

-jt2

http://www.phonenews.com/content/view/2386/9/

There you go

jt2ga65 · Sep 28, 2007, 12:12 AM

Ah, so it is the same law. I didn't realize that the Magnuson-Moss lemon law covered more than just the auto industry. Lots of reading, looks like.

Thanks for the link.

-jt2

one1 · Sep 28, 2007, 12:14 AM

It's only a few paragraphs and it goes quick. The info in it is invaluable to determine why they are unbricking phones secretly. "we may need to do this, but we do not have to advertise it as of yet"

Lionheart · Sep 28, 2007, 01:17 AM

So, somebody needs to kidnap/bribe an Apple Store employee and find out how they are able to do this. Secret keypress, special software, iUnBricker machine or ???

GavinTing · Sep 28, 2007, 01:43 AM

This is will I hate American law. What apple is doing is perfectly fair in business terms. It is also perfectly fair from any perspective you look at it.

Just to avoid getting sued, they have to do secretly unlock phones. Terrible.

Daremo · Sep 28, 2007, 01:49 AM

What angers me more then anything about this, is it ties up the Genius Bar and people with actual tech issues that were not SELF INFLICTED are forced to wait, sometimes for many hours to get help. Now it will become worse, with people lining up to get their broken phones fixed.

Canuck4 · Sep 28, 2007, 02:07 AM

They probably have a master restore file that they just run on the iphone thru USB. And what it does is it fully recovers an iphone to its original state when first bought.
That would definetelly help if it gets leaked on the net

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lionheart

So, somebody needs to kidnap/bribe an Apple Store employee and find out how they are able to do this. Secret keypress, special software, iUnBricker machine or ???

spacepower7 · Sep 28, 2007, 02:11 AM

The real question is how many lawsuits will be filed by 5pm Pacific time tomorrow.

Apple will have to prove why they needed to alter the modem firmware. If you unlock your phone (which is legal except to the Apple/ATT drones above) then restore to firmware 1.0.2 the unlock remains intact. Apple is going to have to prove technical improvements made by altering the modem firmware. They are going to have to open their trade secrets in court.

Apple should have ignored the less than 5% of unlocked phones and updated the iPhone without affecting unlocked ones.

In the long run, this is going to affect Apples revenue and reputation.

Apple is the new M$
Greed is good
Consumer (legal) rights are better.

Canuck4 · Sep 28, 2007, 02:17 AM

Did they do it on purpose though to brick phones or once the phone is hacked and you try to update it it messes it up?
You gotta remember that apple doesnt have to provide updates that will work with available hacked software. They put out an update and if it messes up hacked iphones then it shouldnt be their problem.
But they should release a full recovery utility that would restore everything on the iphone to its original state. So this will get rid of all those bricked owners complains or genius repairs.
All they gotta do is plug in and do it at home.

spacepower7 · Sep 28, 2007, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GavinTing

This is will I hate American law. What apple is doing is perfectly fair in business terms. It is also perfectly fair from any perspective you look at it.

Just to avoid getting sued, they have to do secretly unlock phones. Terrible.

I am not one that ever makes personal attacks but this is the stupidest thing I have heard this week.

Fair in business terms?
What about consumer rights?

mattster16 · Sep 28, 2007, 02:29 AM

Apple will get sued over this, but they won't lose. Yes, it is legal to unlock your phone, but it is also legal to stipulate in the purchase agreement that a subscription to a certain provider is needed to use full functionality of the product. Sort of like TIVO. They also provided a disclaimer before you update that if your phone is unlocked that it may permanently damage the product.

If you knowingly bypassed a contractual obligation by unlocking your phone, what right do you have to claim Apple is causing you damages? Your phone only worked because you broke the contract in the first place..

I'm all for an open phone market and wish any phone could be used with any carrier, but that isn't how it works. Yes there are unlocking laws, but there are loopholes as well and Apple is using one. It sucks, but you can't break a purchase agreement and then whine when you face some kind of consequence.

Apple is not going downhill and turning into "M$". Apple is and always has been a corporation with a board of directors and shareholders. They are here to make money and they do so while making very nice products. Apple is protecting their interests and their revenue streams so that they can continue to make the things everyone buys. Anyone disappointed that "Apple is becoming greedy" only feels that way because they wrongly idealized Apple as the holy grail of corporate honesty and goodness in the first place.

All that said I do not agree with a closed cell phone market (but it does allow close integration and services) and I do not agree with many corporate practices infringing on consumer freedom. I'm just telling it like it is.

Lionheart · Sep 28, 2007, 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GavinTing

This is will I hate American law. What apple is doing is perfectly fair in business terms. It is also perfectly fair from any perspective you look at it.

Just to avoid getting sued, they have to do secretly unlock phones. Terrible.

They are not unlocking phones, they are restoring them to original condition...something any purchaser of an iPhone should be able to do at any time, just like every other computer you purchase. Hopefully they'll see the light and release just such a tool.

Methinks the cat just bit himself in the arse...

ashVID · Sep 28, 2007, 04:07 AM

I dont have the time to dig thru all the thread but you all seem to be missing one thing. Apple doesnt care if you unlock your phone, ATT does! Apple signed an exclusive with them and they are likely required some sort of "due diligence" to make sure it remains an ATT exclusive. Apple cannot support unlocking! If they WANTED to brick phones, they would have not released a warning!

All that said, if you bricked your $400 playing hacker then boo friggin hoo. Shut up about lawsuits and undo the mess YOU created. How can Apple or any company be held responsible for supporting 3rd party hacked applications?

ash =o)

HiddenWolf · Sep 28, 2007, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashVID

I dont have the time to dig thru all the thread but you all seem to be missing one thing. Apple doesnt care if you unlock your phone, ATT does! Apple signed an exclusive with them and they are likely required some sort of "due diligence" to make sure it remains an ATT exclusive. Apple cannot support unlocking! If they WANTED to brick phones, they would have not released a warning!

All that said, if you bricked your $400 playing hacker then boo friggin hoo. Shut up about lawsuits and undo the mess YOU created. How can Apple or any company be held responsible for supporting 3rd party hacked applications?

ash =o)

Apple cares for several reasons:
- It is not osX (their IP) getting hacked, but the firmware, which is the software most closely tied to the hardware, and which is NOT their IP. They've licenced this and are probably obligated to keep the licensor's trade secrets in the face of massive hacking.
- Hacking makes it easier for competitors to take the iphone apart and study how it's done.
- They have contractual obligations to AT&T
- Apple is about control, about control of the consumer experience. They've always done this to make sure the experience is positive. Hacked phones becoming unstable isn't positive.
- If you willingly break a contract they have no obligation to uphold their end of the bargain.

bigandy · Sep 28, 2007, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by one1

This has to do with the "moss" debacle. Apple is treading a very thin line on bricking over an unlock and I think they are realizing the backlash is coming. Seems like they just might have to do this to keep the class action from coming as doing this brick lock violates federal law in regards to the moss law.

I'm sorry, but WTF?

How on earth can a class action lawsuit be coming?

Legally, Apple have doing nothing wrong. Customers with 'bricked' phones have purposefully and knowingly broken their license agreement by installing software or hacking their phone, which Apple clearly state that doing so will invalidate the warranty.

And what on earth posesses people over in the US to talk about bringing a lawsuit every damn time they get a little bit hissy that something's unfair?

This just irritates me, completely. How you can expect to break the license agreement and invalidate your warranty and still expect something to be done is beyond me.

If you installed a set of wheels on your car that made the axles bend out of shape, would you take the car back to the manufacturer and demand they replace them? You sure as hell wouldn't, because it's not covered by the limited warranty as they are commonly called. Same thing.

bartelby · Sep 28, 2007, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigandy

I'm sorry, but WTF?

Surely you're forgetting the fact it's Apple's fault that the phone was locked in the first place

fradac · Sep 28, 2007, 09:01 AM

so now can anyone tell me if i can really get some help? i never intended to use a non AT&T sim, but just out of curiosity tried the unlock software once.

and needless to say after the firmware update last night, my phone doesn't work with my AT&T sim. can someone confirm that i can bring my phone to apple genius and they will fix it? i can't be without my phone for to long.

Speedracer04 · Sep 28, 2007, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bartelby

Surely you're forgetting the fact it's Apple's fault that the phone was locked in the first place

Either this was the most ignorant comment i have seen in awhile, or its too early and I didnt get the sarcasm...

bartelby · Sep 28, 2007, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speedracer04

Either this was the most ignorant comment i have seen in awhile, or its too early and I didnt get the sarcasm...

Erm, that'll be the sarcasm then...

Sep 27, 2007, 09:54 PM	#1
pugnut macrumors 6502 Join Date: Jul 2007	Apple Geniuses are reportedly unbricking iPhones A friend of mine told me that he walked into the Tyson corner store and they fixed it for him. He got his phone back in about 15 minutes. http://www.tuaw.com/2007/09/27/apple...cking-iphones/

Sep 28, 2007, 01:43 AM	#11
GavinTing macrumors 6502 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Singapore!	This is will I hate American law. What apple is doing is perfectly fair in business terms. It is also perfectly fair from any perspective you look at it. Just to avoid getting sued, they have to do secretly unlock phones. Terrible. __________________ White SR Macbook, 2.2GHz, 2GB RAM, 120GB HDD Canon EOS 400D Maxtor 320GB External HDD

Sep 28, 2007, 02:11 AM	#14
spacepower7 macrumors 6502 Join Date: May 2004	hmm The real question is how many lawsuits will be filed by 5pm Pacific time tomorrow. Apple will have to prove why they needed to alter the modem firmware. If you unlock your phone (which is legal except to the Apple/ATT drones above) then restore to firmware 1.0.2 the unlock remains intact. Apple is going to have to prove technical improvements made by altering the modem firmware. They are going to have to open their trade secrets in court. Apple should have ignored the less than 5% of unlocked phones and updated the iPhone without affecting unlocked ones. In the long run, this is going to affect Apples revenue and reputation. Apple is the new M$ Greed is good Consumer (legal) rights are better.

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Sep 27, 2007, 10:03 PM	#2
one1 macrumors 6502a Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Chattanooga, TN	This has to do with the "moss" debacle. Apple is treading a very thin line on bricking over an unlock and I think they are realizing the backlash is coming. Seems like they just might have to do this to keep the class action from coming as doing this brick lock violates federal law in regards to the moss law.

Sep 27, 2007, 11:37 PM	#3
odHbo macrumors member Join Date: Jun 2007	Ugh, Stupid people.... Apple is a very generous company. I'll tell you that.

Sep 28, 2007, 12:04 AM	#5
jt2ga65 macrumors regular Join Date: Jul 2007	Moss law? Only I see from searching for that is referenced to the federal lemon law for cars. You have more of a reference? I'd love to be more informed. -jt2

Sep 28, 2007, 12:07 AM	#6
Canuck4 macrumors 6502a Join Date: Jul 2007	Seems like more work for Apple. They'll probably have the same people every few days trying to hack their iphones and keep going back to have them unbricked.

Sep 28, 2007, 12:12 AM	#8
jt2ga65 macrumors regular Join Date: Jul 2007	Ah, so it is the same law. I didn't realize that the Magnuson-Moss lemon law covered more than just the auto industry. Lots of reading, looks like. Thanks for the link. -jt2

Sep 28, 2007, 12:14 AM	#9
one1 macrumors 6502a Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Chattanooga, TN	It's only a few paragraphs and it goes quick. The info in it is invaluable to determine why they are unbricking phones secretly. "we may need to do this, but we do not have to advertise it as of yet"

Sep 28, 2007, 01:17 AM	#10
Lionheart macrumors regular Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Tampa, FL	So, somebody needs to kidnap/bribe an Apple Store employee and find out how they are able to do this. Secret keypress, special software, iUnBricker machine or ???

Sep 28, 2007, 01:49 AM	#12
Daremo macrumors 6502a Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Chicago	What angers me more then anything about this, is it ties up the Genius Bar and people with actual tech issues that were not SELF INFLICTED are forced to wait, sometimes for many hours to get help. Now it will become worse, with people lining up to get their broken phones fixed.

Sep 28, 2007, 02:17 AM	#15
Canuck4 macrumors 6502a Join Date: Jul 2007	Did they do it on purpose though to brick phones or once the phone is hacked and you try to update it it messes it up? You gotta remember that apple doesnt have to provide updates that will work with available hacked software. They put out an update and if it messes up hacked iphones then it shouldnt be their problem. But they should release a full recovery utility that would restore everything on the iphone to its original state. So this will get rid of all those bricked owners complains or genius repairs. All they gotta do is plug in and do it at home.

Sep 28, 2007, 02:29 AM	#17
mattster16 macrumors 6502 Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN	Apple will get sued over this, but they won't lose. Yes, it is legal to unlock your phone, but it is also legal to stipulate in the purchase agreement that a subscription to a certain provider is needed to use full functionality of the product. Sort of like TIVO. They also provided a disclaimer before you update that if your phone is unlocked that it may permanently damage the product. If you knowingly bypassed a contractual obligation by unlocking your phone, what right do you have to claim Apple is causing you damages? Your phone only worked because you broke the contract in the first place.. I'm all for an open phone market and wish any phone could be used with any carrier, but that isn't how it works. Yes there are unlocking laws, but there are loopholes as well and Apple is using one. It sucks, but you can't break a purchase agreement and then whine when you face some kind of consequence. Apple is not going downhill and turning into "M$". Apple is and always has been a corporation with a board of directors and shareholders. They are here to make money and they do so while making very nice products. Apple is protecting their interests and their revenue streams so that they can continue to make the things everyone buys. Anyone disappointed that "Apple is becoming greedy" only feels that way because they wrongly idealized Apple as the holy grail of corporate honesty and goodness in the first place. All that said I do not agree with a closed cell phone market (but it does allow close integration and services) and I do not agree with many corporate practices infringing on consumer freedom. I'm just telling it like it is.

Sep 28, 2007, 04:07 AM	#19
ashVID macrumors member Join Date: Jun 2007	I dont have the time to dig thru all the thread but you all seem to be missing one thing. Apple doesnt care if you unlock your phone, ATT does! Apple signed an exclusive with them and they are likely required some sort of "due diligence" to make sure it remains an ATT exclusive. Apple cannot support unlocking! If they WANTED to brick phones, they would have not released a warning! All that said, if you bricked your $400 playing hacker then boo friggin hoo. Shut up about lawsuits and undo the mess YOU created. How can Apple or any company be held responsible for supporting 3rd party hacked applications? ash =o)

Sep 28, 2007, 09:01 AM	#23
fradac macrumors regular Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Atlanta, GA	so now can anyone tell me if i can really get some help? i never intended to use a non AT&T sim, but just out of curiosity tried the unlock software once. and needless to say after the firmware update last night, my phone doesn't work with my AT&T sim. can someone confirm that i can bring my phone to apple genius and they will fix it? i can't be without my phone for to long.