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Old Jun 19, 2014, 10:20 PM   #1
rwdonsky
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Replacing Click Wheel with search bar

I would like to suggest that Apple replace the Click Wheel with a GUI that includes a search bar in the next generation iPods. That way we can search for our favorite songs rather then scrolling through a very long list to find them. Eliminating the Click Wheel would result in a completely digital iPod making it cheaper to produce. This search technology already exists in many places including iTunes.

This approach would provide the opportunity to replace the current glass screen with a touch screen similar to that used in the iPhone.

Ralph Donsky

Last edited by rwdonsky; Jun 20, 2014 at 06:54 AM.
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Old Jun 23, 2014, 07:59 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwdonsky View Post
I would like to suggest that Apple replace the Click Wheel with a GUI that includes a search bar in the next generation iPods. That way we can search for our favorite songs rather then scrolling through a very long list to find them. Eliminating the Click Wheel would result in a completely digital iPod making it cheaper to produce. This search technology already exists in many places including iTunes.

This approach would provide the opportunity to replace the current glass screen with a touch screen similar to that used in the iPhone.

Ralph Donsky
The best thing about the click wheel, is that you can control the iPod without looking at it AND without headphones that don't include inline controls.

I am really hoping a new High Capacity iPod is on the way, but I think it should retain the click wheel as well and having a touch screen above for things such as the feature you listed above.

I really hope the beats acquisition gives this product some traction. Music lovers love the iPod classic, there is so much room for improvement now, let's hope they realise it!
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Old Jun 23, 2014, 08:25 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwdonsky View Post
I would like to suggest that Apple replace the Click Wheel with a GUI that includes a search bar in the next generation iPods. That way we can search for our favorite songs rather then scrolling through a very long list to find them. Eliminating the Click Wheel would result in a completely digital iPod making it cheaper to produce. This search technology already exists in many places including iTunes.

This approach would provide the opportunity to replace the current glass screen with a touch screen similar to that used in the iPhone.

Ralph Donsky
So...the iPod touch?
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Old Jun 23, 2014, 10:21 PM   #4
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Response to my posts regarding click wheel replacement

Thank you for responding to my post. I love the name "iPod touch" but we'll have to leave the marketing to Apple. I realize that the click wheel can be used without looking and that we are all used to it. However the need to scroll through long lists of songs to find the one of your choice is both subject to user errors and time consuming.

Imagine being able to replace scroll, click, scroll, click, scroll, click, play with a simple "search..I've got it." As with any technology change eventually the old must give way to the new. Do you want to stick with an iPod "Volkswagen" or switch to an iPod "Cadillac?" Apple has all of the power they need to make our iPod musical experience better then we ever imagined.

Apple can harness the power of our iPhone touch capabilities in an iPod. They can reuse what makes sense from the iPhone and add new capabilities needed for the "iPod Touch." They can integrate existing iTunes search algorithms and tailor them for the "iPod Touch."

...Imagine if you will...an iPod that works like an iPhone, has new capabilities that dazzle us and plays our music with the touch of our finger. Please keep the dialogue going.

....Bill Gates would want this for us....Go Apple!!!!!
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Old Jun 24, 2014, 12:50 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by rwdonsky View Post
Thank you for responding to my post. I love the name "iPod touch" but we'll have to leave the marketing to Apple. I realize that the click wheel can be used without looking and that we are all used to it. However the need to scroll through long lists of songs to find the one of your choice is both subject to user errors and time consuming.

Imagine being able to replace scroll, click, scroll, click, scroll, click, play with a simple "search..I've got it." As with any technology change eventually the old must give way to the new. Do you want to stick with an iPod "Volkswagen" or switch to an iPod "Cadillac?" Apple has all of the power they need to make our iPod musical experience better then we ever imagined.

Apple can harness the power of our iPhone touch capabilities in an iPod. They can reuse what makes sense from the iPhone and add new capabilities needed for the "iPod Touch." They can integrate existing iTunes search algorithms and tailor them for the "iPod Touch."

...Imagine if you will...an iPod that works like an iPhone, has new capabilities that dazzle us and plays our music with the touch of our finger. Please keep the dialogue going.

....Bill Gates would want this for us....Go Apple!!!!!
They already have what you're talking about. It's called the iPod touch. apple.com/ipod-touch

Have you been living under a rock for the last 7 years?
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Old Jun 24, 2014, 01:49 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by sfgiants320 View Post
They already have what you're talking about. It's called the iPod touch. apple.com/ipod-touch

Have you been living under a rock for the last 7 years?
IMO, the iPod Touch is a average music player, it was mainly built for APPS! It's an iPhone without a SIM Card slot...

500GB+, music/vid (for those that want it) player with click wheel + touch screen.
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Old Jun 24, 2014, 10:51 AM   #7
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Response to iOzzie post of 06242014

I just watched this YouTube video about the 16GB iPod Touch 5G (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XplkwOD4XyI). I did some additional research and found that the first generation iPod touch was introduced in September of 2007. iOzzie you were right about suggesting that I had been living under a rock for seven years, although I lived in Tucson, AZ (lots of rocks and beautiful mountains) for only 5 1/2 years prior to relocating to FL. :-)

Being completely honest I was unaware that the iPod touch existed when I made my suggestion in this forum. It is exactly what I had envisioned. I am sorry that I suggested my idea was original. I created the attached chart that compares the cost of the iPod Touch to the iPhone 5s. All of the costs are equivalent except for the 16GB iPod touch that costs more then the 16GB iPhone 5s.

On May 5, 2014 I purchased a 16GB iPhone 5s for my daughter at a Verizon store. My two-year plan had just expired. I did have to sign up for another two years but was eligible for a hardware upgrade. The iPhone 5s costs me $99.99 before adding Verizon service costs. Anyone can deduce that $99.99 for the phone is significantly less then the cost of any iPod touch (price range: $299 - $399).

I just found a link on-line created by Sean Hollister on January 27, 2014 07:57 pm @StarFire2258. It is titled “The age of the iPod is over.” “The lowly iPod, however, didn't do nearly as well. The company moved just 6 million of the trademark MP3 players, a 52 percent decline compared to the same period last year. All told, iPod accounted for just $973 million of the company's record $57.6 billion revenue last quarter. While some would probably be happy to claim they ran a slightly-less-than-a-billion-dollar business, it's getting pretty small for a company the size of Apple.”
iOzzie I hope that once again I am not living under a rock and that someone else has not already proposed the idea I am going to suggest.

Since Verizon makes their money selling two-year service plans could Apple possibly do the same selling two or three year AppleCare agreements for our iPods? This is what I am suggesting: when we purchase an iPod touch we would have the choice of paying full retail price or purchasing an AppleCare agreement and paying a substantially lower price. Verizon sold me the 16GB iPhone 5s (almost equivalent technology to the 16GB iPod touch) for only $99.99. If Apple could offer us similar pricing on the iPod when we purchase an AppleCare agreement at the same time, they could potentially reverse the “52% decline,”
revive the iPod and ramp up their market share on MP3 players to new heights

iOzzie please let me know if I am out in left field with this idea.

PS - if you are reading this threaded discussion I would love to hear your thoughts on these ideas - PLEASE CHIME IN...thanks
Attached Files
File Type: pdf iPod touch iPhone5s Price Comparision_pic.pdf (23.0 KB, 42 views)

Last edited by rwdonsky; Jun 24, 2014 at 12:44 PM.
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Old Jun 24, 2014, 02:36 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by rwdonsky View Post
On May 5, 2014 I purchased a 16GB iPhone 5s for my daughter at a Verizon store. My two-year plan had just expired. I did have to sign up for another two years but was eligible for a hardware upgrade. The iPhone 5s costs me $99.99 before adding Verizon service costs. Anyone can deduce that $99.99 for the phone is significantly less then the cost of any iPod touch (price range: $299 - $399).

This is the point. After the service costs your phone costs >$1700. Not $99

Next you will be suggesting we will use our phones to play games and such!


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Old Jun 24, 2014, 05:40 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwdonsky View Post
I just watched this YouTube video about the 16GB iPod Touch 5G (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XplkwOD4XyI). I did some additional research and found that the first generation iPod touch was introduced in September of 2007. iOzzie you were right about suggesting that I had been living under a rock for seven years, although I lived in Tucson, AZ (lots of rocks and beautiful mountains) for only 5 1/2 years prior to relocating to FL. :-)

Being completely honest I was unaware that the iPod touch existed when I made my suggestion in this forum. It is exactly what I had envisioned. I am sorry that I suggested my idea was original. I created the attached chart that compares the cost of the iPod Touch to the iPhone 5s. All of the costs are equivalent except for the 16GB iPod touch that costs more then the 16GB iPhone 5s.

On May 5, 2014 I purchased a 16GB iPhone 5s for my daughter at a Verizon store. My two-year plan had just expired. I did have to sign up for another two years but was eligible for a hardware upgrade. The iPhone 5s costs me $99.99 before adding Verizon service costs. Anyone can deduce that $99.99 for the phone is significantly less then the cost of any iPod touch (price range: $299 - $399).

I just found a link on-line created by Sean Hollister on January 27, 2014 07:57 pm @StarFire2258. It is titled “The age of the iPod is over.” “The lowly iPod, however, didn't do nearly as well. The company moved just 6 million of the trademark MP3 players, a 52 percent decline compared to the same period last year. All told, iPod accounted for just $973 million of the company's record $57.6 billion revenue last quarter. While some would probably be happy to claim they ran a slightly-less-than-a-billion-dollar business, it's getting pretty small for a company the size of Apple.”
iOzzie I hope that once again I am not living under a rock and that someone else has not already proposed the idea I am going to suggest.

Since Verizon makes their money selling two-year service plans could Apple possibly do the same selling two or three year AppleCare agreements for our iPods? This is what I am suggesting: when we purchase an iPod touch we would have the choice of paying full retail price or purchasing an AppleCare agreement and paying a substantially lower price. Verizon sold me the 16GB iPhone 5s (almost equivalent technology to the 16GB iPod touch) for only $99.99. If Apple could offer us similar pricing on the iPod when we purchase an AppleCare agreement at the same time, they could potentially reverse the “52% decline,”
revive the iPod and ramp up their market share on MP3 players to new heights

iOzzie please let me know if I am out in left field with this idea.

PS - if you are reading this threaded discussion I would love to hear your thoughts on these ideas - PLEASE CHIME IN...thanks
Seriously is this the first forum you have ever been on? I didn't say those things, sfgiants320 did.

I was trying to agree with you some-what... Re-read the thread and pay attention to the names of the posters.
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Old Jun 25, 2014, 02:45 PM   #10
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Response to iOzzie post of 06242014

First I need to offer an apology. As iOzzie pointed out I should have been referencing the comment made by sfgiants320 rather then iOzzie. Yes this is the first time I ever posted in this forum. Operator error on my part in referencing the wrong name of the individual who posted. Can I please ask a favor? In future posts can you please sign your post with your first name? This will make this dialogue so much easier to maintain.

I want to respond to the comment made by Astroboy907. AppleCare agreements are not as expensive as you may suspect. This is information I just found on an Apple internet site.

AppleCare+ for iPhone

Every iPhone comes with one year of hardware repair coverage through its limited warranty and up to 90 days of complimentary support. AppleCare+ for iPhone extends your coverage to two years from the original purchase date of your iPhone(1) and adds up to two incidents of accidental damage coverage, each subject to a $79 service fee plus applicable tax.(2)


If the retail price of an iPod touch became $99.99 + $79 = $179 this cost would still be less then the lowest priced Ipod touch (16GB for $299). The fact that Verizon sold me an iPhone 5s for $99.99 implies to me that the cost of manufacturing this piece of hardware/software is less then what we might imagine. Nevertheless I believe that success in the marketing strategy I am proposing lies in volume. Let's say that Apple sells a million iPod touch(es). The $79 added to each purchase price for the AppleCare agreement would net Apple $79,000,000. My question is this? Would this revenue be enough to send Apple soaring again as a marketer of MP3 players?

Lets keep the dialogue going....kindly state you first name at the end of your post....thanks.....Ralph
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Old Jun 25, 2014, 04:33 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwdonsky View Post
First I need to offer an apology. As iOzzie pointed out I should have been referencing the comment made by sfgiants320 rather then iOzzie. Yes this is the first time I ever posted in this forum. Operator error on my part in referencing the wrong name of the individual who posted. Can I please ask a favor? In future posts can you please sign your post with your first name? This will make this dialogue so much easier to maintain.

I want to respond to the comment made by Astroboy907. AppleCare agreements are not as expensive as you may suspect. This is information I just found on an Apple internet site.

AppleCare+ for iPhone

Every iPhone comes with one year of hardware repair coverage through its limited warranty and up to 90 days of complimentary support. AppleCare+ for iPhone extends your coverage to two years from the original purchase date of your iPhone(1) and adds up to two incidents of accidental damage coverage, each subject to a $79 service fee plus applicable tax.(2)


If the retail price of an iPod touch became $99.99 + $79 = $179 this cost would still be less then the lowest priced Ipod touch (16GB for $299). The fact that Verizon sold me an iPhone 5s for $99.99 implies to me that the cost of manufacturing this piece of hardware/software is less then what we might imagine. Nevertheless I believe that success in the marketing strategy I am proposing lies in volume. Let's say that Apple sells a million iPod touch(es). The $79 added to each purchase price for the AppleCare agreement would net Apple $79,000,000. My question is this? Would this revenue be enough to send Apple soaring again as a marketer of MP3 players?

Lets keep the dialogue going....kindly state you first name at the end of your post....thanks.....Ralph
I don't think you understand the economics of the situation. Verizon sold you the phone for $99.99 up-front, but over the next two years, you'll be paying for your phone service and the phone hardware. In the end, you'll have paid about $650 or $700 for the phone, which is equivalent to the unlocked price of an iPhone (about $650 for the base 16 GB level). So you're wrong — iPhone is not lower in cost than an iPod touch. In fact, Apple makes a lot more money on an iPhone sale than on the sale of an iPod touch.

Neeraj
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Old Jun 25, 2014, 04:38 PM   #12
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I don't think you understand the concept of a phone contracts or subsidies. iPhones aren't being sold for "just" $99. When you pay each month, a percentage of that payment pays for the phone.

And your apple care suggestion? I'm confused. Sounds like your trying to reinvent the wheel.

The iPod is a dying market. It's being killed off by the iPhone and the iPad. Why spend R&D effort on something that isn't bringing in the most money?
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Old Jun 25, 2014, 11:23 PM   #13
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Respone to Neeraj and giraffeboy27 06262014

Neeraj and giraffeboy27,

Thanks to each of you for your comments. Neeraj can I please respond to your comment:

“I don't think you understand the economics of the situation. Verizon sold you the phone for $99.99 up-front, but over the next two years, you'll be paying for your phone service and the phone hardware. In the end, you'll have paid about $650 or $700 for the phone, which is equivalent to the unlocked price of an iPhone (about $650 for the base 16 GB level).”

I realize that over time, signing up for a two-year contract I will end up paying a lot more then the retail price I paid for my phone. This was not quite the model I was suggesting. The cost of an AppleCare agreement is a one-time cost. The cost of any provider’s cell phone plan is a recurring cost. As such I stand by my earlier comment that if I paid $99.99 for the iPod touch and a one time cost of $79 for the AppleCare agreement my end cost would be ~$179.

giraffeboy27 I believe that I addressed the first portion of your comment in my response to Neeraj. Regarding your additional points:

1) “And your apple care suggestion? I'm confused. Sounds like your trying to reinvent the wheel.

I don’t understand this portion of your comment. Please elaborate on what you mean by “trying to reinvent the wheel.”


2a) The iPod is a dying market. It's being killed off by the iPhone and the iPad.
2b) Why spend R&D effort on something that isn't bringing in the most money?

My response to 2a) Unfortunately in this world there are the “haves” and the “have-nots.” There is a huge, unfair disparity between the poor, middle and upper classes. The reality is that many people can’t afford iPads or iPhones not to mention the hefty costs of service contracts. For individuals such as these that love music and its portability, a low cost iPod touch option would open their worlds to music and other features we take for granite on our iPhones.

My response to 2b) The iPod touch already exists and doesn’t require any additional R&D effort. I erroneously suggested this before becoming aware of this device. I still believe that a market exists for a low cost quality MP3 player for
1. individuals that can’t afford an iPhone and
2. those of us that want a mostly MP3 player with some other nice features.

Respectfully….Ralph
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Old Jun 27, 2014, 12:04 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by rwdonsky View Post
Neeraj and giraffeboy27,
My response to 2a) Unfortunately in this world there are the “haves” and the “have-nots.” There is a huge, unfair disparity between the poor, middle and upper classes. The reality is that many people can’t afford iPads or iPhones not to mention the hefty costs of service contracts. For individuals such as these that love music and its portability, a low cost iPod touch option would open their worlds to music and other features we take for granite on our iPhones.
And thus, the iPod Nano seems to be a wonderful solution!

Oh, one more thing. It's a lot easier to respond to comments made by others by using the quote button (to the right and at the bottom of this comment). Makes a nice handy dandy reply box with everything you need in it. Have fun!

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwdonsky View Post
Neeraj and giraffeboy27,
I realize that over time, signing up for a two-year contract I will end up paying a lot more then the retail price I paid for my phone. This was not quite the model I was suggesting. The cost of an AppleCare agreement is a one-time cost. The cost of any provider’s cell phone plan is a recurring cost. As such I stand by my earlier comment that if I paid $99.99 for the iPod touch and a one time cost of $79 for the AppleCare agreement my end cost would be ~$179.
That's still asking Apple to lower the price on their iPod touch - you are still getting the same iPod *and* an extended warranty service for a lower price. Adding AppleCare won't make any difference - sure it nets Apple a profit, but if you are wanting Apple to sell an iPod touch to a lower income group, then Apple is going to have to take away features, not add bonuses.

The reason Apple and Verizon can sell you a phone at $99 is because Verizon buys the phones from Apple (at some undisclosed bulk price, but still higher than $99). Then part of your monthly bill in your contract pays for the phone itself. This is why unlocked phones (requiring no contract whatsoever) are much higher priced. Over the course of your two year contract, your carrier takes enough from your bill to pay for the phone. So in reality, you are paying $500+ for your phone, just in small segments.
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Old Jun 27, 2014, 06:13 AM   #15
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I would be truly sad if Apple discontinued the Click Wheel. The iPod was part of what helped Apple get back on top... Our first generation iPod still works like a dream
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Old Jun 27, 2014, 05:35 PM   #16
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Response to Astroboy907 and thesimplelogic 06272014

Astroboy907

I would like make a clarification on the point I made regarding the disparity in wealth in the US and probably elsewhere. Once again I have unintentionally misled you and others.

It is not just those individuals who are poor that may not be able to afford iPads and iPhones. I have sister who lives in Philadelphia PA in a middle class neighborhood. Her husband’s income pays the bills and allows for a small amount of discretionary spending. However they can’t afford iPads, iPhones and other such technology.

You make an excellent point about Verizon being able to buy phones in bulk from Apple. As you indicated this allows Verizon to sell these to us at an extremely discounted price when we sign up for a two-year contract. I think you hit the nail on the head by suggesting the solution was the iPod Nano touch!! Based upon your comments I would like to throw out a revised idea for your consideration.

Why couldn’t the millions of consumers who would potentially purchase a discounted iPod Nano be treated like a “large Verizon?” Suppose that Apple reduced the price of the iPod Nano from $149 to $99.99. What if millions were sold in response? Would the large volume of purchases (akin to Verizon purchasing in volume) make up for the $49 that Apple would loose on each purchase?

Please let me know what you think about this idea my friend…thanks…Ralph


thesimplelogic

Since starting this discussion I have become enlightened by the comments others have made in this forum. Despite my original idea I now believe the click wheel should stay where it is. I am also a very long-term iPod user. My wife bought me my first iPod as a birthday present when they were introduced in 2001. I am way behind the curve just owning a 5th generation iPod Nano (the battery refuses to die ☺).

I am passionate about exercise and staying healthy. I listen to my favorite work out mix on my iPod whenever I exercise… except for when I am playing tennis. I see that you are a macrumors newbie also. I love your username!! Before becoming a retired computer scientist I always tried to follow the KISS principle. I am sure you have heard of this: "Keep it simple, stupid." An ex-supervisor of mine always told me I didn’t understand the meaning of being “succinct”…nothing has changed in my retirement☺…..please keep your macrumors comments coming…
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Old Jun 30, 2014, 10:48 PM   #17
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Elevating our idea to Apple

Recently I took advantage of my three year AppleCare plan for my 27 inch iMac seeking help with a question about the use of iCloud. I am authoring a book on a Dell Venue 8 Tablet and needed to transfer WORD files from the tablet to my Mac (my Mac is running MS Office 2011). iCloud was the perfect way to accomplish this file transfer.

The Apple technical support specialist who helped me was Superb!! Whenever I receive technical support of this caliber I like to let the supervisor of the support specialist know about this.

I emailed the specialist's supervisor very well deserved compliments about the support provided. This supervisor who is the lead of an Apple team has also communicated with me.

If no additional comments are posted in this thread by July 4th I will send the supervisor an email summarizing the ideas discussed pertaining to the iPad Nano. After receiving his reply I will post it along with my email (assuming he gives permission to do this).

Living in the USA I am indebted to the brave men and women who go into harms way every day to protect my freedoms. If you live in the USA and are patriotic on July 4th, you will enjoy this beautiful YouTube video to a famous song by Lee Greenwood titled "God Bless the USA" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFcuR34Gg-o. This video is awesome viewed full screen.

Wishing everyone in the USA a Sparkling 4th of July....Ralph

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Old Jul 5, 2014, 12:09 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwdonsky View Post
Recently I took advantage of my three year AppleCare plan for my 27 inch iMac seeking help with a question about the use of iCloud. I am authoring a book on a Dell Venue 8 Tablet and needed to transfer WORD files from the tablet to my Mac (my Mac is running MS Office 2011). iCloud was the perfect way to accomplish this file transfer.

The Apple technical support specialist who helped me was Superb!! Whenever I receive technical support of this caliber I like to let the supervisor of the support specialist know about this.

I emailed the specialist's supervisor very well deserved compliments about the support provided. This supervisor who is the lead of an Apple team has also communicated with me.

If no additional comments are posted in this thread by July 4th I will send the supervisor an email summarizing the ideas discussed pertaining to the iPad Nano. After receiving his reply I will post it along with my email (assuming he gives permission to do this).

Living in the USA I am indebted to the brave men and women who go into harms way every day to protect my freedoms. If you live in the USA and are patriotic on July 4th, you will enjoy this beautiful YouTube video to a famous song by Lee Greenwood titled "God Bless the USA" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFcuR34Gg-o. This video is awesome viewed full screen.

Wishing everyone in the USA a Sparkling 4th of July....Ralph
I suggest you take a quick tour around Apple.com...
What I am presuming you envisage is already a reality (the touchscreen iPod nano): Thumb resize.

Talking to a supervisor won't do anything about new products unfortunately. Apple employs millions, but only a handful make decisions on new products. I doubt the supervisor would even pass the comments on; the sad truth is, it's not worth their time.

I also don't see the "iPod + AppleCare" idea working. If people can't afford iPads or iPhones (which, whilst expensive, aren't like buying a house or car), I doubt they'll wanting to be spending >$100 on a music player, even if it was discounted.

The iPod ship sailed long ago - the market is pretty much saturated, and apart from kids buying iPod touches, nobody is really interested in a dedicated music device anymore. If they are, the current iPods provide a good set of options at affordable price points.

You mention that decreasing the price would increase sales - unfortunately I don't see that being the case. Even if it did slightly increase sales, the time and effort spent to manage the new price points and roll them out is probably not worth the profits (we're talking about a drop in the pond of Apple's hundreds of billions).

The market is just not there anymore.
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Old Jul 6, 2014, 10:55 AM   #19
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Response to cambookpro 07062014

cambookpro,

Thank you so much for your comments. The idea of the "iPod and Applecare" had already been discarded in earlier portions of this thread.

In addition, through the collaboration that has taken place thus far, we have agreed that the "touch screen iPod Nano" is the answer to my original idea seeking to replace the click wheel with a search bar.

I would like to respond to some of the points you have made.

1) the market is pretty much saturated, and apart from kids buying iPod touches, nobody is really interested in a dedicated music device anymore. If they are, the current iPods provide a good set of options at affordable price points.

> I still see a market for a dedicated music player. As I mentioned earlier not everyone can afford smartphones for use as their music players. Just walk into LA Fitness or any fitness center. Many individual on treadmills, bikes, elliptical trainers etc. are listening to their workout music on MP3 players.

2) You mention that decreasing the price would increase sales - unfortunately I don't see that being the case. Even if it did slightly increase sales, the time and effort spent to manage the new price points and roll them out is probably not worth the profits (we're talking about a drop in the pond of Apple's hundreds of billions).

> As previously mentioned I purchased an iPhone 5s for my daughter recently at a Verizon store. Our two-year contract was up making me eligible for a hardware upgrade. They were offering an additional discount on the "5s" for Mother's day. With this promotion I ended up paying $99.99 for the phone (of course this does not include the monthly Verizon charges)

> Companies are always managing new price points and rolling these out. That has kept many of them in business during the economic downturn. Look at what happens during the Christmas season. It's all about decreasing prices to increase sales.

3. The market is just not there anymore.

Walk into any Best Buy and visit the MP3 player area. In my experience it is always busy with people looking to buy iPods or other MP3 players.

A guiding premise in my life has always been "nothing ventured, nothing gained." Moving forward in this fashion has opened more doors to me then ever imagined. I know you feel my one point of contact with an Apple supervisor won't make any difference.

Tomorrow (July 7th) I will compose an email to this Apple supervisor. I will tell him that a group of collaborators in a MacRumors forum have concluded that an opportunity exists to increase sales of the touch screen iPod Nano.

I will provide a description of the target for these iPods and the supporting rationale for this marketing strategy. Lastly I will discuss the strategy of lowering the touch screen iPod Nano from $149 to $99.

I will make an analogy between the ability of Verizon to offer the iPhone 5s at $99.99 (since they are able to purchase these phones in volume from Apple) to a potential large consumer base for purchases of the touch screen iPod Nano.

I have always taught my daughters the need to become passionate about their career goals and then to make doors open that can help them attain these goals.

Every new idea needs to have a starting point in its life. My email will open the first door. It is my hope that I can make more doors open to higher points of contact at Apple marketing one door at a time. My goals will be: 1) to determine if Apple considers our idea has merit 2) if so is this idea feasible to implement?

...remember...nothing ventured...nothing gained....

....respectfully.....Ralph
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Old Jul 7, 2014, 04:05 PM   #20
cambookpro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwdonsky View Post
> I still see a market for a dedicated music player. As I mentioned earlier not everyone can afford smartphones for use as their music players. Just walk into LA Fitness or any fitness center. Many individual on treadmills, bikes, elliptical trainers etc. are listening to their workout music on MP3 players.


Walk into any Best Buy and visit the MP3 player area. In my experience it is always busy with people looking to buy iPods or other MP3 players.

...

I will make an analogy between the ability of Verizon to offer the iPhone 5s at $99.99 (since they are able to purchase these phones in volume from Apple) to a potential large consumer base for purchases of the touch screen iPod Nano.
I admire your passion, I really do - if everyone had the drive to achieve things like you, the world would be a much better place! However, I must take issue with a couple of your points, which I've clipped from your other post.

Firstly, while there may be a market, it's undoubtedly small. This is Apple's revenue for Q12014:



As you can see, the iPod makes up a measly 1.68%, and probably >75-80% of that is iPod touches. That means that the other iPods make up around 0.33% of Apple's revenue - that's not a great proposition. It's just not worth Apple's time anymore, considering the 'iWatch' is meant to be their next killer product that will diminish sales even further.
Perhaps Apple won't kill the iPods, but in terms of R&D value, iPads, iPhones and mythical 'iWatches' will provide much bigger returns. Therefore I think the current iPods may sit there for a while, filling a small gap.

Apple aren't really here for niche products though (as we found during the late 90s/early 00s during Steve Jobs' second reign) - so they may be gone sooner than later.

Secondly, whilst there may be people in the MP3 section in Best Buy, have you seen iPhone and iPad sections in Apple Stores? They are full to the brim, while the Nano and Shuffle go untouched.

Finally, I'm still not sure you understand the economies of the situation. While Verizon sell you a $100 phone, they undoubtedly buy it from Apple for a lot more - probably around $250-300, give or take, per unit, considering the bill of materials for a 5s is upwards of $200.

The way they make their money back is through the monthly bill, which pays for the phone probably three or four times over. Here in the UK, O2 demonstrate this with their refresh plans, where you pay for the minutes, texts and data separately to the monthly handset cost. They are not selling you a $100 phone - that would be impossible. They are selling you a $400+ phone over two years.

Again, I admire your effort but talking to a supervisor won't really get you anywhere. Apple Retail and Apple Corporate act as almost two entirely different companies - you'll be talking to Apple Retail, who can't really affect Apple Corporate in the slightest.

Maybe use your passion for this subject and turn it into something else? I'm not quite sure how, but you seem to have clear ideas about how this market should work.


Regards
Cameron
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Old Jul 8, 2014, 02:13 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by iOzzie View Post
The best thing about the click wheel, is that you can control the iPod without looking at it AND without headphones that don't include inline controls.

I am really hoping a new High Capacity iPod is on the way, but I think it should retain the click wheel as well and having a touch screen above for things such as the feature you listed above.

I really hope the beats acquisition gives this product some traction. Music lovers love the iPod classic, there is so much room for improvement now, let's hope they realise it!
The current nano incorporates the central button traditionally found on the headsets with in-line controls, so you can control it without looking. So yeah, the click wheel is pretty much dead.
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Old Jul 8, 2014, 10:02 PM   #22
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Response to cambookpro and APlotdevice 07082014

Cameron (cambookpro),

I want to thank you for all of your kind words. I also want to acknowledge that my insights into economics and marketing are limited.

These insights are the result of spending forty years in Aerospace and Defense as an Electrical Engineer/Computer Scientist. That represents a lot of years spent in proposal and budgeting meeting. I don’t however have any economics or marketing degrees. You have a better grasp on both of these areas then I do. You were being kind when you indicated “you seem to have clear ideas about how this market should work.”

This is not really the case. All of my comments are based upon career exposure to these concepts or personal observations on how the market seems to work.

I have not written to my contact at Apple yet hoping that you would reply again in this thread. I am happy I waited to send this correspondence since the points you make are excellent.

Your point is very well taken about the way the Verizon makes their money back. Thanks for setting me straight on this. I really don’t know anything about the anticipated capabilities of the “iWatch” or how that might impact iPod sales.

I found the pie chart you included of Apple profits versus products very interesting. I agree that the 1.68% profits from iPod sales is negligible when compared to profits from the sales of other Apple products.

I would like to challenge you a bit on your comment that Apple is not about “niche” products. One definition of “niche” I found on-line includes these words “The market niche defines the product features aimed at satisfying specific market needs.”

Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak introduced the “Apple I” as a niche market product in 1976. As you know Steve Jobs returned to Apple to begin his “second reign” late in 1996.

iTunes debuted early in 2001 followed by a fall debut of the iPod. Both were niche market products at the time they were introduced.

I am going to remain stubborn on my assertion that Apple can rejuvenate the iPod. I furthermore assert that Apple can accomplish this using the iPod touch with no additional dollars invested into R&D. I want to suggest that an opportunity exists for Apple to expand the 1.68% iPod market share to a larger piece of the pie.

I own an Iphone 5 but don’t use it to listen to music. I own an iPad but don’t use it to listen to music. I love my iPod Nano and use it to listen to all of my music. As I have said previously I listen to my iPod when I exercise. I bring it with me hooked to a portable speaker when I visit sick children in hospitals. I play my Sesame Street playlist while I twist balloon animals for the children.

I want to thank you for the differentiation you made between Apple Retail and Apple Corporate.

Cameron I will wait until the end of this week to see if you or any other macrumors contributors post additional comments I need to consider prior to contacting Apple. Now that I know my message needs to reach Apple Corporate I will ask for help in this regard when I write to my Apple Retail point of contact.

Best regards and thanks for all of your help….Ralph

APlotdevice,

Sorry that you had to wade through all of my comments but I wanted to thank you for your observation regarding the central button.

..best…Ralph
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Old Jul 9, 2014, 12:12 AM   #23
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Rather than update the 17" Macbook Pro to a Retina display, Apple killed it because it didn't make up enough of their sales to bother with upgrading (or so the general consensus is).

I believe this is the way of the iPod. Right now, it's not making up a huge part of Apple's sales, and it really hasn't seen a ton of innovation in the last 5 years apart from fitness stuff. The iPod still does the same things it did 5 years ago, play music, and some models play video. More sales would be netted if the iPod was somehow set apart from other devices, but innovation is needed, and innovation costs money, which Apple is likely hesitant to spend.

Sure, I think the market could be "revitalized", perhaps if something like an iPod Touch Mini was produced (say, a 2.5" iPod nano-sized iPod Touch), with the ability to download and use apps, was produced. I can't see this being good for Apple's iPod Touch or iPhone sales though.

I fear this year we will likely only see minor upgrades to the iPod line, with most of next years focus on the iWatch. And with an iWatch release, that would likely be the final nail in the coffin for the iPod line.


Well, that concludes yet another long, poorly written, and slightly off topic response.
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Old Jul 10, 2014, 12:40 PM   #24
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Your spirit is really quite remarkable, but it's pretty much in vain. Apple is a multi billion dollar corporation (thanks to the iPod, more or less). I'm pretty sure they've thought about this a little bit. They're approaching the end of the iPod days (at least in terms of real innovation specific to the iPod) and it seems like they're okay with that. They've got tons of other products with higher profit margins that are selling way better than iPods.
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Old Jul 10, 2014, 02:38 PM   #25
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The world is moving towards streaming music services, not downloading to local storage hence the decline of iTunes sales and eventual death of iPods.
Just look at how much Apple spent on buying Beats brand along with their streaming service. This should give you some idea where they are headed and it doesn't look good for iPods without internet connection.
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