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Old Dec 13, 2007, 03:15 PM   #1
ioff13
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Beware the Juniper VISA Card!

Just wanted to share my thoughts on my frustrating experience with the Juniper VISA Card with all who might be inclined to use the card to purchase anything via the Apple Store...

The deal is interest-free for a set number of days (90 or 180) from the DATE OF PURCHASE, not from the billing date. In my case, even though I had purchased my new iMac in the middle of Juniper's billing cycle, and that I paid in full my purchase prior to the 3rd month's billing cycle, Juniper still nailed me for the interest on the total of my entire purchase because they received my 3rd and final monthly payment mere days after my 90-day "Same As Cash" grace period.

Juniper's "Same As Cash" grace period starts the day Apple begins charging you for whatever it is you bought. For me, (if I had better understood the terms) that meant that I had to be aware of 3 payment deadlines for each of the 3 separate shipments Apple made to fulfill my original order (because, naturally, charges are made the day the item ships). When I called Juniper, they told me that those were the terms I agreed to and they couldn't do anything for me.

I promptly cancelled the card.

I told them that, fine, perhaps I wasn't watching my calendar closely enough, but it is unethical to charge for the total amount when a portion of that amount (in my case about 2/3 of my original purchase) had already been paid back. They didn't care what I had to say, made no gestures to pacify me (contrary to almost every other major credit card on the globe) and were all too ready to cancel my card. I don't trust them and neither should you.

Take your chances with this Juniper VISA if you must, but for your own good, read the fine print and then mark your calendars, 'cause these b*stards are just happy to take your money the second they get the chance.
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Old Dec 13, 2007, 03:18 PM   #2
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Yeah, you really can't trust card companies that position themselves *right beside* large electronic purchases. It's the e-equivalent of those candy bars department stores place right next to the checkout line. They're an easy grab, but aren't worth it. The card companies take advantage of your desires to have whatever you're trying to buy. They know you aren't going to read the fine print--one one ever does--and they take advantage of that. Stay away from any "pay later" schemes when buying gear.
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Old Dec 13, 2007, 03:22 PM   #3
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For me, (if I had better understood the terms).
How is it Juniper's fault, then?
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Old Dec 13, 2007, 03:31 PM   #4
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Home Depot's card works in a similar manner .. the 'promotion' end date is on the say day as the purchase day, so if you bought something interest free for a year on 9/10/07, you must pay it all back by 9/9/08 regardless of you billing date. I caught this too when I looked over the statement.
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Old Dec 13, 2007, 03:47 PM   #5
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I second this one .....

I've held one of Juniper's credit cards for the last year or so, now. The only reason I ever got their card in the first place is, I was recently out of a bankruptcy (got divorced and the wife had maxed out all the credit lines with no intention of repaying anything, etc. etc.). Juniper was the first bank that was willing to offer me a new card without ridiculous "annual fees" or "monthly maintenance fees" attached. (Only a $750 credit limit at the time - but it was a start.)

I've always paid that card off on time when I've used it, and never even carried a balance from month to month. A while ago though, I tried to make an online payment right before the due date, and their system didn't credit my payment until the following business day. (I know... technically my fault....) But here's the thing. I called customer service to see about a one-time exemption from the $39 late fee, under the circumstances, and all I got was a lady with a thick foreign accent who absolutely refused to do anything for me. Her attitude was borderline "rude and arrogant", if I had to describe it. I even threatened to cancel the card, and she didn't seem to care a bit.

I ended up keeping the card, more out of laziness than anything else. (I already got a much better card with Capital One.) But I've been leery of using the Juniper card anymore, except in an extreme emergency ... and if I do use it, I pay it right back off, a day or two later. Their web site appears to be slow to update transaction info as a general rule, and I really don't trust this bank a bit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ioff13 View Post
Just wanted to share my thoughts on my frustrating experience with the Juniper VISA Card with all who might be inclined to use the card to purchase anything via the Apple Store...

The deal is interest-free for a set number of days (90 or 180) from the DATE OF PURCHASE, not from the billing date. In my case, even though I had purchased my new iMac in the middle of Juniper's billing cycle, and that I paid in full my purchase prior to the 3rd month's billing cycle, Juniper still nailed me for the interest on the total of my entire purchase because they received my 3rd and final monthly payment mere days after my 90-day "Same As Cash" grace period.

Juniper's "Same As Cash" grace period starts the day Apple begins charging you for whatever it is you bought. For me, (if I had better understood the terms) that meant that I had to be aware of 3 payment deadlines for each of the 3 separate shipments Apple made to fulfill my original order (because, naturally, charges are made the day the item ships). When I called Juniper, they told me that those were the terms I agreed to and they couldn't do anything for me.

I promptly cancelled the card.

I told them that, fine, perhaps I wasn't watching my calendar closely enough, but it is unethical to charge for the total amount when a portion of that amount (in my case about 2/3 of my original purchase) had already been paid back. They didn't care what I had to say, made no gestures to pacify me (contrary to almost every other major credit card on the globe) and were all too ready to cancel my card. I don't trust them and neither should you.

Take your chances with this Juniper VISA if you must, but for your own good, read the fine print and then mark your calendars, 'cause these b*stards are just happy to take your money the second they get the chance.
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Old Dec 13, 2007, 03:50 PM   #6
stainlessliquid
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These kinds of cards are supposed to get people with bad or no credit started on a new card too, like the Best Buy cards and crap. The Juniper credit card is not like that, you need to already have a history to be accepted yet they give you horrible rates and deals that you would expect from a card that requires no history.
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Old Dec 13, 2007, 03:51 PM   #7
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This is a common trick the credit card companies use all the time--it's called double cycle billing, and it is an atrocity, along with 39% interest rates and a bunch of other nightmarish ********* they are allowed to pull off.

When you apply for a credit card make sure the first thing you look at is their APR policies, whether they will jack them up at will without notice, what the maximum APR they will charge is and how long of a time you get interest free. Then look at the way they calculate interest, if you see "double cycle" anywhere in those Terms and Conditions, avoid the card like the plague, because they will gouge you with exactly this type of thing by making you pay interest on items you have already paid for.
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Old Dec 13, 2007, 04:34 PM   #8
aquajet
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Originally Posted by Feverish Flux View Post
How is it Juniper's fault, then?
Nobody said it was.

In fact, the OP admitted fault. The OP also has every right to bitch about their shady practices.
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Old Dec 13, 2007, 09:25 PM   #9
jumpinjoe
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They are not giving a great deal with only 3 months the same as cash (up to 6 months for orders over $1,000). Their default rate can range from 14% to 23% depending on your credit score. Cards from other retailers offer better terms. The bad is that Apple would associate with them.
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Old Dec 14, 2007, 06:35 AM   #10
ioff13
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Originally Posted by Feverish Flux View Post
How is it Juniper's fault, then?

First of all, Feverish Flux, don't be an ass.

Secondly, the point of my post was not to admit to the world what a fool I am, but to warn would-be Juniper members to look closely at the terms and fully understand them before jumping in. Clearly some of the other posts in this thread and others supports my opinion that Juniper's "same-as-cash" credit terms are unethical, disengenous, and a bit of a scam. I also support the opinion of another poster, that it is a shame that Apple would associate themselves with such a company. My only consolation from the whole experience is that for the $78 I'm now paying in (what I believe) unwarranted finance fees, at least I got $75 worth of iTunes Store credit via the iTunes Rewards deal. (So, one could argue that I'm only out $3, but that's beside the point.)

It also surprises me that a credit card company would risk losing any customer for a single, relatively small, finance charge. To me, with Juniper's
lack of hesitation in cancelling my account at my request -- and not even going through the usual incentive motions to keep me on board -- seemed to support my belief that something is not right with the company.

So, again, I say: read the fine print, fully understand the terms, and dive in if you must. But, don't be surprised if the relationship with Juniper comes back to bite you in the ass (I don't mean you, Feverish Flux.). ;-)
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Old Jan 12, 2008, 07:45 PM   #11
goglobal
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Juniper VISA Card Users BEWARE

I recently applied for a Juniper VISA through the Apple store and was instantly approved with a $4000.00 credit limit, which I used to buy a new MacBook Pro and some other items. Each month I paid approximately $1000.00 before the due date. At the end of November I paid the remaining balance of $1990.00 way before the due date.

The following month Juniper sent me another bill with a zero balance except for a finance charge of $86.12. After talking to several rude Juniper reps, I discovered the fine print on the second or third page of my statement stating that the finance charge was due a few days before the credit card payment due date. I have never heard of a credit card that has two due dates. I called Juniper and cancelled the account and sent them a check for $86.12 on 12.17.07, which was due on 12.30.07.

Today I received another bill for the previous finance charge of $86.12 plus an additional $30 finance charge and a $15 late fee. I checked my online bank statement and the $86.12 check cleared my bank on 12.31.07 and the due date was 12.30.07. I've been calling Juniper since 9AM and I get is a rapid busy signal.

After Googling "Juniper VISA fraud scam" I realized that I'm among many who are being scammed by this company.

My next step is to file a complaint with the FCC and the California Attorney General's office. Also, as an Apple consumer and shareholder, I'm notifying their corporate financial services manager. An online complaint to Apple over a month ago has gone unanswered.
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Old Jan 12, 2008, 07:54 PM   #12
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Strange. I did the whole 90 days interest free thing when I bought my PowerBook and paid in three equal installments (one a month). I didn't have to pay the interest.
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Old Jan 12, 2008, 08:25 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by ioff13 View Post
supports my opinion that Juniper's "same-as-cash" credit terms are unethical, disengenous, and a bit of a scam.
I wonder where anyone got the idea that you thought it was Juniper's fault .

It's none of those things of course (unethical, disengenous, or even a bit of a scam), but the clearly written terms were not what you ASSUMED they were. That ticks you off, you cancel, no problem. Believe me, if Juniper deviated from the written terms of your agreement by $.01, they'd be nailed.

As it is, you missed the deadline in the terms by a few days, and they exercised their option to charge interest on all purchases. As spelled out in the terms.

Spelling things out in the terms and then sticking to them isn't unethical. Making baseless accusations against a company when you didn't understand the contract... eh, borderline.


Reading the other posts, folks are making a big assumption. Making the payment in full by the third payment due date is NOT the same as paying the balance in full before the 90th day after purchase. You can say you want it to be that way, say you thought it was that way, email Steve Jobs, or go into the store and scream at the customers like the girl that sat on her Macbook. Doesn't matter. Paying in full by the 90th day means paying in full by the 90th day. Paying in full by the third payment due date means something else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by goglobal View Post
After Googling "Juniper VISA fraud scam" I realized that I'm among many who are being scammed by this company.

Google "Microwaves cause cancer". Lots of hits. That's the nature of the intertubes, you don't have to be right to state your piece.

Last edited by CashGap; Jan 12, 2008 at 08:31 PM.
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Old Jan 12, 2008, 09:27 PM   #14
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It may be too late now, but you should've asked for a supervisor when on the phone, they may have given in, especially with the threat of canceling the card. HSBC charged me some BS $15 finance charge even though I paid off the card (something with balance transfers and that it's daily interest, not monthly interest or some crap like that). The person I talked to first on the phone would not budge and told me I should've requested a payoff quote from online banking (despite the fact that nowhere on online banking did it give me an option for a payoff quote). I asked for a supervisor and was transferred, and she immediately without any hesitation reversed the finance fee.


FWIW, closing credit card accounts can negatively impact your credit score. It's best to just cut up the card and never use it again but leave it open. Unless they charge you annual fees just for having the card.
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Old Jan 13, 2008, 11:34 AM   #15
jvette
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It's really funny how these computer companies are tied to companies who aren't the best customer service companies. Wouldn't you think Apple could do much better than Juniper? All they do is make Apple look Sleazy.
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Old Jan 13, 2008, 11:58 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by CashGap View Post
I wonder where anyone got the idea that you thought it was Juniper's fault .

It's none of those things of course (unethical, disengenous, or even a bit of a scam), but the clearly written terms were not what you ASSUMED they were. That ticks you off, you cancel, no problem. Believe me, if Juniper deviated from the written terms of your agreement by $.01, they'd be nailed.
I have to agree....

To the people complaining about Juniper. How do you think Juniper makes a profit lending you money for 3 months interest free? They don't. They make their money off of the people who don't quite pay off the balance. For people who understand the terms and are organized, its free money for 3 months. For people who don't and aren't..... well, you subsidize those who are. And I'm sure they thank you.

No one made you take the card. If you can't afford the purchase, perhaps you shouldn't buy it.
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Old Jan 13, 2008, 12:14 PM   #17
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I have to agree....

To the people complaining about Juniper. How do you think Juniper makes a profit lending you money for 3 months interest free? They don't. They make their money off of the people who don't quite pay off the balance.
Contrary to popular assumptions... Most ETHICAL credit card companies DO NOT make a majority of their profit off of the card-holder.... They make it off the MERCHANTS, charging them 3%-5% of every purchase made. While not all card-holders keep their cards paid off. Those that do, and do so within the guidelines, never ever pay 1cent over the value of their purchases, yet retain all the rights and protection that an ETHICAL credit card company has to offer.
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Old Jan 13, 2008, 03:10 PM   #18
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Contrary to popular assumptions... Most ETHICAL credit card companies DO NOT make a majority of their profit off of the card-holder.... They make it off the MERCHANTS, charging them 3%-5% of every purchase made. While not all card-holders keep their cards paid off. Those that do, and do so within the guidelines, never ever pay 1cent over the value of their purchases, yet retain all the rights and protection that an ETHICAL credit card company has to offer.
Yet there is nothing UNethical about making money on the card-holder.

Well... I suppose if having and using the card were mandatory, but I think the Juniper card is still voluntary? And you can follow the terms and not pay the interest?

Words mean things. We can't just say that anything we don't like is unethical, or the words start to lose their meaning.

I don't like the MR default color scheme. I can't say, for example, that MR is "Terroristic" for having a color scheme that I don't like.
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Old Jan 24, 2008, 02:36 PM   #19
DJ88
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I have a stupid question.


I've had a student visa card from my bank for a little over a year now, buying things with it and making the payments. I was approved for a $700 credit at Best Buy just today.

My question is, I doubt it, but if I apply for the juniper card (I'm applying as a student) would I get atleast $1500 credit? I have the money to pay it off way before the 180 days so i'm fine with that. The thing is, the purchase has to be made in 30 days from when the account opens in order to get the 180 days interest free, and I don't want to be approved for something along the lines of $700 like Best Buy and not be able to purchase the macbook pro I want before the 30 day deadline and be competely screwed.

If anyone knows what the minimum credit they will approve is, it would help alot.

Thanks!
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Old Jan 24, 2008, 02:48 PM   #20
Mal
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I have a stupid question.


I've had a student visa card from my bank for a little over a year now, buying things with it and making the payments. I was approved for a $700 credit at Best Buy just today.

My question is, I doubt it, but if I apply for the juniper card (I'm applying as a student) would I get atleast $1500 credit? I have the money to pay it off way before the 180 days so i'm fine with that. The thing is, the purchase has to be made in 30 days from when the account opens in order to get the 180 days interest free, and I don't want to be approved for something along the lines of $700 like Best Buy and not be able to purchase the macbook pro I want before the 30 day deadline and be competely screwed.

If anyone knows what the minimum credit they will approve is, it would help alot.

Thanks!
I don't think there's a specific stated minimum, but I got approved for another Juniper card (that I'm not keeping, but this was a long time ago) with only a $250 credit limit.

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Old Jan 24, 2008, 02:51 PM   #21
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I don't think there's a specific stated minimum, but I got approved for another Juniper card (that I'm not keeping, but this was a long time ago) with only a $250 credit limit.

jW
Ouch, that sucks. Thanks for the reply I think i'll skip the juniper card haha
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Old Jan 24, 2008, 02:54 PM   #22
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FWIW, closing credit card accounts can negatively impact your credit score. It's best to just cut up the card and never use it again but leave it open. Unless they charge you annual fees just for having the card.
Having too much open credit 'lying in wait' is also bad for your credit score.
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Old Jan 24, 2008, 02:56 PM   #23
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Standard practice from all CC companies when offering 30-60-90-180 days same as cash is to start accruing interest on day one of the purchase and charge the whole mess to you the day you are late. Most often the statement that you receive every month will tell you what date the offer expires on, and current accrued finance charges should you happen to be late. Juniper did nothing shady here.

My wife and I have had a Juniper Card (Master Card for Frequent Flyer miles on Midwest) for about 5-6 years now and have rarely had any issues with them. The only time we ever ran into any trouble was when we ran into Federal regulation D.

I could relay a similar story about Discover offering interest free for the life of the credit card as long as we made one purchase on the card each billing period. The catch was that as you made payments they went to the loan balance first instead of covering the new purchases. So as you had no interest payments on the original transfer, every purchase you made while you paid off the balance would accrue interest until the original loan was paid off. Once we figured this out we paid off and cancelled the card. I didn't blame them for being shady, I know the terms would have outlined all of this if I had read them, I made a wrong assumption and paid for it, but it is another valuable live lesson.
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Old Jan 24, 2008, 02:59 PM   #24
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I could relay a similar story about Discover offering interest free for the life of the credit card as long as we made one purchase on the card each billing period. The catch was that as you made payments they went to the loan balance first instead of covering the new purchases. So as you had no interest payments on the original transfer, every purchase you made while you paid off the balance would accrue interest until the original loan was paid off. Once we figured this out we paid off and cancelled the card. I didn't blame them for being shady, I know the terms would have outlined all of this if I had read them, I made a wrong assumption and paid for it, but it is another valuable live lesson.

I have this discover with "0% for life", and I make two purchases a month (that is what they require).. I spend about 8 bucks a month on it. 8 bucks @ 12% (APR ON PURCHASES) is nothing. The 2k balance (continually drops as I make payments of course) I still carry at 0% would outweigh in a month how much interest I accrue in a YEAR spending 96 dollars with Discover.

I think you lost a good thing there.
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Old Jan 24, 2008, 03:08 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mindflux View Post
I have this discover with "0% for life", and I make two purchases a month (that is what they require).. I spend about 8 bucks a month on it. 8 bucks @ 12% (APR ON PURCHASES) is nothing. The 2k balance (continually drops as I make payments of course) I still carry at 0% would outweigh in a month how much interest I accrue in a YEAR spending 96 dollars with Discover.

I think you lost a good thing there.
Yes when the terms are known the savings can be gained, but the same can be done with 30-60-90-whatever days term limits. The problem was that we used the Discover Card for Sam's Club runs and had an initial month's purchases much more than had we gone out and bought a pack of gum twice that month. Since we'd f'd up the first month it was either suck up the interest while we paid it down or just pay it off. Since we had the money and were just using the 0% to earn interest while we slowly paid down. Once the first month had a moderate balance our scheme was shot and we just dropped the whole idea.
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