Media Center PCs?

[MacRumors]

PC Makers revealed plans to push Microsoft's new Windows XP Media Center Edition 2004. The upgraded version of Windows from Microsoft which attempts to provide an integrated PC entertainment system with "user interface for viewing television programs, video, photos and other multimedia files--by incorporating photo editing and the ability to pause and rewind television shows."

More information on is available on Microsoft's site.

The new OS appears to provide resellers and 3rd parties to provide custom experiences, with Napster claiming that the new Napster 2.0 will have Media Center integration, while HP is planning a Photosmart PC for digital imaging enthusiasts.

Steve Jobs has spoken against convergance in the past, and instead has been focusing on a "digital hub" strategy, though this integration may blur the lines. Meanwhile, a recent survey reports that 51% of consumers are willing to record content on their PCs for playback on the TVs, while only 34% would do so if they had to watch on their desktops.

[arn]

goes back to the whole "who would watch a DVD on their computer".

However... looking at Microsoft's demo site about it... it looks appealing.

I know a lot of people have been integrating their Macs/PCs with their home stereo and home television equipment. This tries to take it to then next level... the question of course is how well it does it.

I personally would not recommend a computer-based Tivo/Replay at this time to anyone... as the ones I've looked into are NOT an applicance-like experience.

The beauty of the Tivo/Replay is it is truely an appliance. It works, you don't have to reboot it, and deal with a lot of headaches.


arn

[MacVault]

I think Apple should do this too! I would love to be able to sit at my home theatre or TV and pull photos, movies, and music over the network from my Powermac G5. Also being able to record shows from the TV to my mac in MPEG4 would be sooo sweet! This would be awsome! What is Apple's problem with this? If someone doesn't want to 'converge' then they don't have to. But we should have to the option to if we want.

Is there currently any 3rd party solution to do this???

[hugemullens]

Never been a big fan a windows media center, maybe i would like it more if it was a stand-alone OS, but you cant order a copy, only what the OEMS give you. I agree, although neat, they are far from TIVO's and nothing a normal computer cant do with a little 3rd party software.

[Analog Kid]

Originally posted by arn
goes back to the whole "who would watch a DVD on their computer".

Me, for one... Saves me from owning a TV and all the crap that goes with it...

Not saying I'm normal, but a market of at least one exists...

[arn]

There was another quote from Jobs that I couldn't find off hand...

Basically, it was one about a refridgerator and a toaster. The technology exists for your refridgerator to also make toast.... but no one wants that.

anyhow... an appropriate quote for this thread.

arn

[PowerBook User]

Is this good or bad news? Anyway, I don't know how innovative this is. For example, Apple had some of these features years ago, like the Macintosh TV (about 10 years ago). Also, many older Macs have TV tuners, a remote control, RCA and S-Video in and out, an FM radio tuner, and included subwoofer. Some of the cool Macs like this were the Macintosh TV, 20th Anniversary Macintosh, Power Macintosh 6500, and Power Macintosh/Performa 62xx. Not that it's a bad idea, though. I wish Apple would add all or most of these things as options on current Macs.

[gotohamish]

Originally posted on Page 1
Roger Kay, an analyst, provides this criticism of the integration: "You never quite get the (consumer electronics) experience .... It's still ultimately a Swiss Army knife, rather than a katana (a Japanese sword)."

Aaaah, the Swiss Army Knife.

Never trust an army with a bottle opener so easily accessible!

[gotohamish]

Originally posted by arn
There was another quote from Jobs that I couldn't find off hand...

Basically, it was one about a refridgerator and a toaster. The technology exists for your refridgerator to also make toast.... but no one wants that.

anyhow... an appropriate quote for this thread.

arn

Obviously he has no need for one of these then.

The Internet Toaster

[punter]

my dad wants to get a dvd player for the tv. I reckon we get a computer with av in/out and a dvd reader. This way we could digitally record shows onto a hard disk. For those not worried about downloading/ripping illegal copies of movies it would have even more benefits.

We don't have tivo where I am, so I'm a bit of a novice in the whole area.

[RichardCarletta]

Sony makes 19" flat screen CRTs with 2560 X 1536 resolution . they sell for $700 . Install those in a larger eMac case , install a second 7200 rpm 250 GB hard drive , a high definition version of Formac Studio/ TV with remote control , a G5 procssor and if the case is large enough an extra fan , and you would have a mac version of a media center pc.

$ 1300 eMac with Radeon 9600
+ $ 650 Formac Studio/ HDTV
$ 700 SONY CRT
$ 300 second hard drive
$ 50 larger eMac case and fans and firewire 800
----------------------------------------------------------
$ 3000 for G4 model with standard dvd-r superdrive
+ $ 500 G5
------------------------------------------------------------
$ 3500 for G5 model with standard dvd-r superdrive
+ $ 3000 " blueray " high defination dvd-r superdrive
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
$ 6500 for G5 model with " blueray " high defination dvd-r superdrive

[arn]

Originally posted by punter
my dad wants to get a dvd player for the tv. I reckon we get a computer with av in/out and a dvd reader. This way we could digitally record shows onto a hard disk. For those not worried about downloading/ripping illegal copies of movies it would have even more benefits.

In theory... sure... but in practice, this setup can be a pain in the ass. Let us know how it goes.

arn

[sak]

Originally posted by gotohamish
Aaaah, the Swiss Army Knife.

Never trust an army with a bottle opener so easily accessible!

Very off topic.. The real Swiss Army Knife hast no bottle opener check here

[gotohamish]

Originally posted by sak
Very off topic.. The real Swiss Army Knife hast no bottle opener check here

There's clearly a bottle opener right on that picture.

I'm not talking about a corkscrew.

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by punter
my dad wants to get a dvd player for the tv. I reckon we get a computer with av in/out and a dvd reader. This way we could digitally record shows onto a hard disk. For those not worried about downloading/ripping illegal copies of movies it would have even more benefits.

We don't have tivo where I am, so I'm a bit of a novice in the whole area.

Aside from ripping your movies onto its hard drive (which you could do on your living room computer now), you've essentially replaced a $99 DVD player and <$500 TiVO 2/HM with a $2000 computer.

Add in the inconvenience associated with such a setup (you either deal with the computer interface for DVD/TiVO activities, or you deal with a "10-foot" interface's setup and configuration), and I really don't see how this is a worthwhile idea.

IMHO, the "Media Center PC" is a solution in search of a problem. Frankly, there is nothing it can do better than a (small) set of well-designed appliances, and unless you really are going to use every single feature available (including doing spreadsheets on your living room television), then it is also no more expensive than those appliances.

I agree with Steve. There's no way I'd live with just a "Media Center PC"; I'd still need a living room/office PC. Suddenly, the Media Center PC is nothing but a very expensive replacement for products that work better and with significantly less hassle.

But then, I always thought having your PC act as an answering machine was a stupid idea that would never catch on, yet for a good 5 years in the late 90's every single PC sold had a "voice modem" and answering machine software turned on when it went out the factory door ...

[icrew]

Originally posted by MacVault
I think Apple should do this too! I would love to be able to sit at my home theatre or TV and pull photos, movies, and music over the network from my Powermac G5. Also being able to record shows from the TV to my mac in MPEG4 would be sooo sweet! This would be awsome! What is Apple's problem with this? If someone doesn't want to 'converge' then they don't have to. But we should have to the option to if we want.

Is there currently any 3rd party solution to do this???

Check out TiVo's Home Media Option on their Series 2 DVRs....that'll do a lot of what you want. See http://www.tivo.com/1.10.asp .

Hope this helps,

Ian

[tomf87]

Originally posted by Analog Kid
Me, for one... Saves me from owning a TV and all the crap that goes with it...

Not saying I'm normal, but a market of at least one exists...

Same here... I'm selling my HDTV equipment as I never watch the thing. It's either books, music, or rollerblading. Any buyers?

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by sak
Very off topic.. The real Swiss Army Knife hast no bottle opener check here

As depicted in the photo, from left to right:

1) Bottle Opener
2) Awl
3) Blade
4) Can Opener

Clearly, that includes a bottle opener. No, it's not going to open a bottle of fine wine, but it'll easily open a bottle of soda or beer.

[hamishb]

I recently bought a Lifeview FlyVideo 3000 and the Televio software from http://televio.com

Paid A$220, which is around US$150 (Aussie dollar at a 5 year high at present)

Works great, can watch TV and do my work.

Just like my Performa 6400! (and my wife's 5200/75 before that!)

Cheers
Hamish

[bbarnhart]

A "media PC" is all wrong. I don't want a computer in my living room. Jobs has it right. The Mac should be the center of the digital hub. There is one piece missing. There needs to be a set top box that takes multiple inputs from al of your media output devices (cable, satellite, CD, DVD, tuner, etc) and routes them to your Mac. That set top box will have to do the digitizing work and then send them to your Mac to be archived.

It must also be able to control your output devices (like my Tivo changes the channel on my satellite receiver). Now, your Mac has all your favorite TV shows, ripped all of your CD's and your kids DVD's that they watch all the time and your favorite radio programs. If you have another TV you will need another set top box to access your Mac (this one could be a 'lite' version. Just pulls from the Mac and does not do any digitizing).

This set top box also has usb and firewire to download pictures and movies from your digital camera and video camera. This device is not all that different from the Tivo box. We have one and it works great. However, the Tivo just records TV shows and changes the channel on our satellite. To add all of the other stuff would not be that difficult.

You can control the set top box from your TV with remote. View a list of the TV shows you've recorded or a list of your MP3's. This would truly make the Mac the center of your digital lifestyle.

[mactarkus]

I would love if Apple simply made a headless Mac with high quality video in/outs and audio in/outs to connect to my home theater. It would be networkable (wireless) and use a wireless keyboard/mouse. A big hard drive is a must along with an integrated FM/TV tuner. I presently use a 466MHz Beige G3 desktop in my home theater. It uses an EyeTV to record my shows and display them to the big screen TV or any other Mac on my network. It plays my MP3 collection from another computer on the network along with photos too. Of course, I can surf the net from the comfort of my couch too. They could make it real cheap too. My total setup can probably be had for about $500.

[bbarnhart]

I forgot one thing. Why not add a bluetooth keyboard with trackpad so you can view your Mac desktop on your TV? Using terminal services technology (VNC) you can bring your desktop to the TV and surf or run some quick app.

[displaced]

I much prefer Apple's current track to the direction that MS have taken.

An all-in-one unit cannot match the flexibility of separate devices, with well-defined capabilities and a standard, open method of communication between them.

Part of the beauty of having a 'real' computer in the centre of things is that both end-users and developers can innovate and customise. Of course, this is no replacement for a good 'out-of the box' experience - but that is one of the strengths of Apple. They create genuinely usable software without neglecting aspects such as AppleScript that let users, tinkerers and developers create powerful custom solutions.

Look at something like the Salling Clicker. Astoundingly powerful, yet all it's really doing is exposing capabilities that the OS already has. With the right hardware, and some good software to pull it all together, it could work really well.

I'm picturing something like a mini Xserve RAID sat where a VCR would be, with all the A/V output and capture hardware inside, slaved to the Mac via Bluetooth or 802.11g. Tie this in with a smart remote control (or, what the hell, why not a 12" PowerBook!?). Couple it all with a 802.11g iPod dock, and a smattering of Rendezvous, and you're set!

The whole 'Media Center' PC concept just seems unduly limiting.

[1adonis1]

What's the difference between a "Media Center" and a "Digital Hub".

[cubist]

This is not a "new OS", this is just another bundle.

This is why the PC software market is so much scorched earth: Microsoft keeps bundling more and more stuff, until eventually we could expect that XP will include any software anyone would ever buy... and Microsoft would be the only software vendor on earth.