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Old Feb 1, 2008, 09:17 AM   #1
stevegut78
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Thumbs down I'm sorry guys...

I want to take this opportunity to let out some frustrations that have been boiling inside of me for a while. I have been a Microsoft guy for quite some time and switched over to Apple last year. My reasons for making the switch was mainly because I did not see anything worthwhile in Vista and I liked the new features Leopard and felt that they would get good use. One thing that I have noticed since becoming an Apple user is that there is an overwhelming amount of fanboy activity which downright makes me feel like a giant vag. Steve Jobs could re-invent the pet rock and you guys would be lined up ready to buy one. Even if you had already just purchased the pet pebble 2 months earlier. And to top it off, you would all be rushing to upload your video to proudly show us how to properly unbox our pet rock because, afterall, this is an Apple product and because Steve Jobs hypes it up so much it must be so revolutionary and ground breaking?!?! Who the hell posts unboxing videos/pics??? Why does Apple tout products and features like they are the pioneers? Why does the Back to my Mac feature rely on UPnP for routers and not simply port forwarding/NAT? Why the hell do I need an Airport which costs twice as much as any standard router in order to do screen sharing? Is it because screen sharing has only been tested with a handful of 3rd party routers??? It's about time screen sharing has become available, but I must say, Microsoft Remote Desktop sets up so much easier. Why in 2008 do I have duplicate entries in my Calendar and Address Book because I synced up with .Mac? I thought that sort of problem was the norm in 1997 with Palm Pilots and Psions? Why did I get duplicate widgets when syncing my widgets with .mac? I assumed that would be an OBVIOUS problem and I was so disgusted to see duplicate widgets on both of my Macs after syncing... Come on guys, it's 2008... People expect crap to just freakin work... Especially syncing.... Who really wants to futz around with this kind of crap? Why does one of the biggest Apple fans (who happens to sit 5ft away from me as I type this) have so much anger and frustration at Apple and Steve Jobs? Is it because he was one of the first to purchase the iPhone and has since been let down and still cannot copy/paste? Is it because in 2008 Safari crashes countless times on basic web sites? Is it because as a developer, he has sold his customer on Apple products and he still remains in a development stage because Apple has not released Java 6? It's been 1yr since Sun released Java 6... Get on it Steve!!!

It makes me sad to see you guys praise products such as the macbook air... What's so special? Apple TV... a failure... Im anxious to see how well TAKE 2 works out for Steve Jobs... Im sure now that it's been mentioned twice some people will feel obligated to buy it. Don't get me wrong, I still feel that Leopard is a better OS compared to Vista. But I am ashamed to walk into an Apple store only because the typical Apple fan is the epitome of the geek that I do not want to be associated with. I don't need a "genius" to tell me that the reason why my Mac Pro crashes so much is because I have a Microsoft mouse plugged into the USB port. Would they sell me another sorry "Mighty mouse"??? What kind of design is the mighty mouse? Who uses and enjoys using a mighty mouse? Why does Apple try and simplify computing and downplay the complexity of PC's yet they offer these bozo services such as training which shows me how to use Apple products? I thought Apple products just work?
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Old Feb 1, 2008, 09:19 AM   #2
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How do you really feel? Maybe I can assist you in remember why you were drawn to applehttp://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Win...e62a21033.mspx
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Old Feb 1, 2008, 09:22 AM   #3
stevegut78
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How do you really feel? Maybe I can assist you in remember why you were drawn to applehttp://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Win...e62a21033.mspx
hahaha that's pretty funny. I am not surprised microsoft has taken that approach. Vista is complete crap
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Old Feb 1, 2008, 09:30 AM   #4
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My older-than-dirt LinkSys router has supported UPnP for years now. Why would you think that you need an Apple router for UPnP?

It's too bad that you let yourself get so consumed with the fanboys. They exist for pretty much every technological product now (DVRs, wireless phones, cars, GPS, TVs, headphones, etc). Hopefully you'll be able to figure out a way to not get upset about stuff you can't control/don't agree with and just enjoy the product you bought for whatever reason you saw in it when you switched to it. Apple fanboys and Steve's reality-distorting field have existed for way longer than you and I have had Apples, and will continue to exist for a long time in the future.

Last edited by aristobrat; Feb 1, 2008 at 09:36 AM.
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Old Feb 1, 2008, 09:38 AM   #5
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So what's your point? You can't expect Apple to be perfect in everything that they do, no company is. If you don't like how Apple does things then use another product.

Also just because Apple fanboys buy everything that is new and great, why do you have to put them down? I don't go on windows forums and say "Macs are the best thing ever." I'm not going to lose sleep because you think a few features are better on the windows side of things. I don't have a problem using windows, I just don't prefer it. I personally don't care if you bash Apple's products, but don't attack the people because they like something that you don't.
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Old Feb 1, 2008, 09:42 AM   #6
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My older-than-dirt LinkSys router has supported UPnP for years now. Why would you think that you need an Apple router for UPnP?
Sure, my linksys WRT54G has UPnP and it's been enabled...Yet it still doesn't work and I have found countless websites which discussed the issue. Some sites suggested flashing my router firmware with a 3rd party version of the firmware...That's crazy! I feel that Apples tight marriage between their chosen hardware is to blame for the problems that exist with many of their products.
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Old Feb 1, 2008, 09:43 AM   #7
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I do agree with you in part - the fan base is slightly odd but, at the same time, quite sweet. I suspect that the larger market share that Apple gets, the less the fan base will become. After all, everyone likes to support the underdog.

And my thread "Things you HATE about Macs" has been going for a few weeks and notched-up several hundred posts.

Macs certainly aren't perfect, but I think an awful lot of people much prefer Mac OS to Windows whereas an awful lot of Windows users use Windows 'just cos'.

Also, if you read sites like Mac Rumors then you'll witness the fan base - if you'd rather just buy and use your Mac rather than be a fan of it, perhaps you should steer clear of websites like this?
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Old Feb 1, 2008, 09:44 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Pees330 View Post
So what's your point? You can't expect Apple to be perfect in everything that they do, no company is. If you don't like how Apple does things then use another product.

Also just because Apple fanboys buy everything that is new and great, why do you have to put them down? I don't go on windows forums and say "Macs are the best thing ever." I'm not going to lose sleep because you think a few features are better on the windows side of things. I don't have a problem using windows, I just don't prefer it. I personally don't care if you bash Apple's products, but don't attack the people because they like something that you don't.
I'm not trying to tout windows at all...you're missing the whole point. Let's not try and steer this down that dreaded path.
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Old Feb 1, 2008, 09:46 AM   #9
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OP - hilarious post. While I agree with most things you said (and disagree with others), you won't find a hospitable home to your thoughts here.

The thing about the unboxing pics and vids - so funny and true. I never understood that myself.
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Old Feb 1, 2008, 09:46 AM   #10
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im only going to chime in on the "why the unboxing videos and pics".

part of it is just sharing man. mac users are happy to see others get new Apple prods. lots view them cuz not everyone can afoord one on release day... but they still want the experience of seeing inside. third, since a great deal of apples base users are in design or creative, the packaging solutions are often amazing.
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Old Feb 1, 2008, 09:47 AM   #11
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For reference, I am not a "fanboy". I've never even used OS X for extended periods of time and I've only owned 1 iPod since they came out (a nano 1st gen)

I don't really agree with your comment about fanboys.
I persoanlly find that these "fanboys" actually react even more strongly towards and Apple product they don't want. For instance they complain more about not getting an ultraportable MBP instead of the "underpowered" MBA. Most PC users I know think the MBA is damn cool. They wouldnt buy one, but they don't complain about being dissapointed all day. So, with regards to your comment about the iRock, I disagree. A few select people would buy anything from Apple but not most so called "fanboys"

Now with regards to the Macbook Air. What's so special. A LOT. Everyone seems to think if the product isnt right for them it isn't right for anyone.
I have been looking to replace my Toughbook W2 for a while now.
I want something the same weight, since I carry it all day.
I want something faster.
I want something with a slightly bigger screen. (To all of you who want 12'' screen, have you ever used one for 3 years straight?)
How many times have I used my Optical drive in my laptop....twice a year...
I have a 3Ghz Dell at home with lots of space (and 2GB of RAM...which is plenty you crazy people who complain about the MBA's RAM)

The Air is perfect for me. If it hadn't been i would probably have never decided to switch to a Mac.
It's 3 lbs (same as mine), 800Mhz fast then my current laptop, has double the hard drive space, a bigger screen all while being sexy and thin.

And you say it's expensive...I payed more then that for my current laptop when it came out...and I dare you to find a laptop with an SSD for less...

Sure I'll have to bring the Ethernet adapter to school with me daily (we have a plug at every seat instead of wireless) but I never have more then 1 USB device plugged in.

So...
Sorry for this long rant....BUT

Feel free to scream at the overly obsessive "fanboys" all day long.
But don't tell us not to like the MBA...b/c it IS perfect for some of us!

EDIT:
Again sorry for ranting...I probably wouldn't have said anything had you posted this on a non-MBA forum. I'm just kinda tired of people bashing on a computer that fills all my needs on every tech board. As you can see this is my first post.
Like someone said, if you don't like the fan base, steer clear of the boards. I actually do exactly that.
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Old Feb 1, 2008, 09:50 AM   #12
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the packaging solutions are often amazing.
This is true. Opening an Apple product is always something I look forward to. I don't think I've ever seen another company pay as much attention to the aesthetics of packaging a product.
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Old Feb 1, 2008, 09:58 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by stevegut78 View Post
One thing that I have noticed since becoming an Apple user is that there is an overwhelming amount of fanboy activity which downright makes me feel like a giant vag. Steve Jobs could re-invent the pet rock and you guys would be lined up ready to buy one. Even if you had already just purchased the pet pebble 2 months earlier. And to top it off, you would all be rushing to upload your video to proudly show us how to properly unbox our pet rock because, afterall, this is an Apple product and because Steve Jobs hypes it up so much it must be so revolutionary and ground breaking?!?! Who the hell posts unboxing videos/pics???
This is just e way it is. Some take it more seriously then other and frankly, as a long time mac user, it annoys me sometimes when i see the fanboy stuff. Don't get me wrong, if i see someone not using an apple product I will try to convince them to get one, but i don't usually do the whole fanboy thing.

Quote:
Why does Apple tout products and features like they are the pioneers? Why does the Back to my Mac feature rely on UPnP for routers and not simply port forwarding/NAT?
Because UPnP is idiot proof (for most things) requiring someone to go into there router and open a port and figure out how to to that is WAY above what apple wants to make there customers do

Quote:
Why the hell do I need an Airport which costs twice as much as any standard router in order to do screen sharing? Is it because screen sharing has only been tested with a handful of 3rd party routers???
lat i check ALL modern routers, and most old ones, support UPnP. Personally i turn it off and forward the ports myself so that i am in control.

Quote:
Why in 2008 do I have duplicate entries in my Calendar and Address Book because I synced up with .Mac? I thought that sort of problem was the norm in 1997 with Palm Pilots and Psions? Why did I get duplicate widgets when syncing my widgets with .mac?
I don't have or use .Mac so i don't know what is going on there. Sorry fo the trouble.

Quote:
Is it because he was one of the first to purchase the iPhone and has since been let down and still cannot copy/paste?
I am sure they are working on it. If that person was so concerned about not having copy and past maybe the person should have gotten another device.

Quote:
Is it because in 2008 Safari crashes countless times on basic web sites?
This could be the sites problem or maybe it is a safari problem. Have you tried fixing it.

Quote:
Is it because as a developer, he has sold his customer on Apple products and he still remains in a development stage because Apple has not released Java 6?
if the person signs up for a free developer account they can go get Java 6 from the apple site. It aint that hard adn it completely free. And unless there is some certain new features in Java 6 that are imperative to his programming then java 5 is probably close enough.

Quote:
It makes me sad to see you guys praise products such as the macbook air... What's so special?
I am sure there is a market for the product. If it anit for you then don't bother bringing it up.

Quote:
Apple TV... a failure... Im anxious to see how well TAKE 2 works out for Steve Jobs... Im sure now that it's been mentioned twice some people will feel obligated to buy it.
The new Apple TV is much better in my opinion. with the ability to use it without a computer and with all the movie companies on board i think this Take 2 will do better. If i had a need for one i would buy one. But i have a full blown HTPC running XP Pro and Media Protal.

Quote:
I don't need a "genius" to tell me that the reason why my Mac Pro crashes so much is because I have a Microsoft mouse plugged into the USB port.
That is a microsoft driver problem, don't balme apple for that. also don't bash the geniuses as you might actually need them one day. Just because you know what is causing the problem on your computer does not mean everyone else does.

Quote:
Would they sell me another sorry "Mighty mouse"??? What kind of design is the mighty mouse? Who uses and enjoys using a mighty mouse?
My parents use and love there mighty mouse. Why?? Because it has the scroll ball and only one button. They want simple but like having the scroll ball there. If i turn on the mighty mouse as a two button they have not the slightest clue what the hell is happening.

Quote:
Why does Apple try and simplify computing and downplay the complexity of PC's yet they offer these bozo services such as training which shows me how to use Apple products? I thought Apple products just work?
Seriously, wtf. This is just... Just because you know how to use the programs does not mean that my 65 year old grandma does. if the training things at the apple store were not popular they would stop giving them, plain and simple. They give training on all sorts of things from iPhoto and the iLife apps to pro apps like Final Cut



Apple has always, and probably will always, survive on creating the hype that surrounds there products. It helps and it hurts. Just look at how Green Peace attacks apple VERY publicly while not going after other computer companies that could have the same or worse record.
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Old Feb 1, 2008, 10:02 AM   #14
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I'm not trying to denounce the Macbook Air guys... Sure this is a nifty product and will fit the requirement for a lot of people. I know better than to be ignorant and bash a product simply because it is not right for me. When I say what's the big deal...I basically mean, this product to me isn't all that revolutionary. Sure it's thin and sexy...But it pays the price for being thin and sexy... Just like every other small form factor laptop ever made... As for the other guy comparing the MBA to his Toughbook... Is that a real comparison? I thought Toughbooks were the ruggedized notebooks? Sounds like the Toughbook and Macbook Air are in two different categories.
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Old Feb 1, 2008, 10:03 AM   #15
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I concur, there is a certain level of fanboyism here on this otherwise useful forum.

A lot of times when there's a problem or a concern, they write it off to two things: 1) You don't know OS X/Apple 2) Its perfect that way.

To all you fanboys out there: Apple isn't perfect. OS X has it flaws!

Now let me make one thing clear, not ALL Apple users are fanboys.

Anyways, I enjoyed your rant and I share your discord. Now put on your flame suit
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Old Feb 1, 2008, 10:04 AM   #16
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Old Feb 1, 2008, 10:10 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by DaLurker View Post
I concur, there is a certain level of fanboyism here on this otherwise useful forum.

A lot of times when there's a problem or a concern, they write it off to two things: 1) You don't know OS X/Apple 2) Its perfect that way.

To all you fanboys out there: Apple isn't perfect. OS X has it flaws!

Now let me make one thing clear, not ALL Apple users are fanboys.

Anyways, I enjoyed your rant and I share your discord. Now put on your flame suit
Hahaha Thanks... I know speaking of this in this forum is asking for trouble. I think that sometimes the "closed" architecture of apple hardware/software really causes a lot of the frustrations with me.
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Old Feb 1, 2008, 10:13 AM   #18
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How does this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegut78 View Post
Steve Jobs could re-invent the pet rock and you guys would be lined up ready to buy one.
...jive with this...

Quote:
Apple TV... a failure...
...?

Maybe all of the enthusiasm surrounding Apple is because they've actually made a string of great products? MB, MBP, Mac Pro, iPod, iPhone, OSX -- these are all excellent, proven top-flight products.

Or are you suggesting that they aren't?
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Old Feb 1, 2008, 10:20 AM   #19
stevegut78
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Originally Posted by mashoutposse View Post
How does this...



...jive with this...



...?

Maybe all of the enthusiasm surrounding Apple is because they've actually made a string of great products? MB, MBP, Mac Pro, iPod, iPhone, OSX -- these are all excellent, proven top-flight products.

Or are you suggesting that they aren't?
Is it supposed to jive??? They are two different statements.

Sure all those products are great, but my rant is that some of the issues we have to deal with are ridiculous. I find its like take two steps forward and one step back. Apple releases a great product...Then you deal with some silly issues that were once NORMAL issues 10+yrs ago. It just makes me frustrated to try out a great apple product or feature and almost foresee a potential problem and say to myself "nah they probably worked that out if I'm thinking of it". Then to my disappointment, the feature fails.
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Old Feb 1, 2008, 10:22 AM   #20
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Hey Toughbook guy here

There are 2 lines of Toughbooks. The rugged ones and the business ones.

The business ones are some of the lightest, smallest, full featured laptops around. But they are slow....like most thin notebooks IMO
(I should add they have some of the coolest optical drives ever!)

Check them out http://www.panasonic.com/business/to...-computers.asp
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Old Feb 1, 2008, 10:24 AM   #21
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I use a mighty mouse, and I think it's fine. I love the scroll ball. It's not very ergonomic, but even with my large hands I've had no problems.
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Old Feb 1, 2008, 10:37 AM   #22
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How exactly is Apple TV a failure. I love mine and use it all the time and it's never gone wrong. I don't love it because I'm a fan-boy or something. I use windows quite often too. Both OSs have their flaws. Yet, I just like OS X a bit more.
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Old Feb 1, 2008, 10:46 AM   #23
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Screen-sharing works fine for us over a plain old D-Link 802.11g wired/wireless router. In mixed mode, even.

Apple TV is great. Like any other "media center" except without all the idiotic complications of configuration. I don't care if anyone ever buys another one; I like mine and it's by far the best, easiest to use "media center" on the market.

Copy/paste on iPhone I'd like. The problem is how to do it within the iPhone interface, not because they don't think it should be there. You can ding 'em for being dense and slow, but not for keeping such a common feature out with intent. Believe me, Apple wants copy/paste on the iPhone. But quick.

The MacBook Air is a *fashion* item. You know, like a nice, expensive watch. My $8 Wal-Mart digital does the job, even looks like it costs $50. I like it because I can bang it around -- lifelong disequilibrium due to organic pathology; or too much Scotch, depending -- and not care if I have to replace it. But it's not a slick, fashionable timepiece, that's for sure.

Anyway, I like the MB Air. If I could live in 80GB I'd buy one. Although the other limitations don't matter to me, for my particular type of work. But I don't think I can live in 80GB and *I will not go back to keeping up with two computers as I fell on my knees and sobbed the day I was totally happy with a portable to the point I didn't feel like I missed having a desktop, too*. Technically, I could live in 80GB, by sticking my iTunes library on an external USB2 drive for syncing with my iPhone. But then I have to back up the MB Air internal drive *and* the external USB2 drive to *another* USB2 drive via Time Machine, because if both my Time Machine back-up and my iTunes library are on the same external drive, and that whole drive goes, not just the a second partition with the iTunes library on it, the iTunes library is not also on the MB Air, so I have to rerip like 1,200 CDs or so -- which is only a portion of my collection, anyway -- and the day -- ahem, month -- I have to do that is the day I buy a portable CD player and forget this digital music thing. This all sounds like too much freaking hassle for fashion.

So, say the MB Air had a 160GB drive, or say I had far less music and didn't add as much semi-monthly, my new MB Air would be winging it's way to me as we speak. But I'd also tell you *exactly* why I bought it, replacing my MacBook, over nothing new or just a newer MacBook: Because I think that things *looks good*! Doo-wop... Fashion.

The MB Air is designed to make you want it 'cause it's *looks* like hot stuff. So what? You can't tell me you haven't ever bought anything on form over function? Paid more for that form, probably, too. As for the posters on these forums who will tell you it's a perfect, highly practical solution to someone who needs blah blah certain blah blah features in portability, and they'll beat you up if you point out it's an impractical fashion item compared to other available Mac portables... Well that's what you call *rationalization* of *indulgence*. More commonly known as "kidding yourself". You know, like I'll just go ahead and stay at the pub another hour, drink a couple glasses of water before bed, sleep in an extra half hour, I'll feel great tomorrow, no problem. When met with this, you just laugh and keep walking, like running across any other whackjob on the street.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegut78 View Post
I want to take this opportunity to let out some frustrations that have been boiling inside of me for a while. I have been a Microsoft guy for quite some time and switched over to Apple last year. My reasons for making the switch was mainly because I did not see anything worthwhile in Vista and I liked the new features Leopard and felt that they would get good use. One thing that I have noticed since becoming an Apple user is that there is an overwhelming amount of fanboy activity which downright makes me feel like a giant vag. Steve Jobs could re-invent the pet rock and you guys would be lined up ready to buy one. Even if you had already just purchased the pet pebble 2 months earlier. And to top it off, you would all be rushing to upload your video to proudly show us how to properly unbox our pet rock because, afterall, this is an Apple product and because Steve Jobs hypes it up so much it must be so revolutionary and ground breaking?!?! Who the hell posts unboxing videos/pics??? Why does Apple tout products and features like they are the pioneers? Why does the Back to my Mac feature rely on UPnP for routers and not simply port forwarding/NAT? Why the hell do I need an Airport which costs twice as much as any standard router in order to do screen sharing? Is it because screen sharing has only been tested with a handful of 3rd party routers??? It's about time screen sharing has become available, but I must say, Microsoft Remote Desktop sets up so much easier. Why in 2008 do I have duplicate entries in my Calendar and Address Book because I synced up with .Mac? I thought that sort of problem was the norm in 1997 with Palm Pilots and Psions? Why did I get duplicate widgets when syncing my widgets with .mac? I assumed that would be an OBVIOUS problem and I was so disgusted to see duplicate widgets on both of my Macs after syncing... Come on guys, it's 2008... People expect crap to just freakin work... Especially syncing.... Who really wants to futz around with this kind of crap? Why does one of the biggest Apple fans (who happens to sit 5ft away from me as I type this) have so much anger and frustration at Apple and Steve Jobs? Is it because he was one of the first to purchase the iPhone and has since been let down and still cannot copy/paste? Is it because in 2008 Safari crashes countless times on basic web sites? Is it because as a developer, he has sold his customer on Apple products and he still remains in a development stage because Apple has not released Java 6? It's been 1yr since Sun released Java 6... Get on it Steve!!!

It makes me sad to see you guys praise products such as the macbook air... What's so special? Apple TV... a failure... Im anxious to see how well TAKE 2 works out for Steve Jobs... Im sure now that it's been mentioned twice some people will feel obligated to buy it. Don't get me wrong, I still feel that Leopard is a better OS compared to Vista. But I am ashamed to walk into an Apple store only because the typical Apple fan is the epitome of the geek that I do not want to be associated with. I don't need a "genius" to tell me that the reason why my Mac Pro crashes so much is because I have a Microsoft mouse plugged into the USB port. Would they sell me another sorry "Mighty mouse"??? What kind of design is the mighty mouse? Who uses and enjoys using a mighty mouse? Why does Apple try and simplify computing and downplay the complexity of PC's yet they offer these bozo services such as training which shows me how to use Apple products? I thought Apple products just work?
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Old Feb 1, 2008, 10:48 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by stevegut78 View Post
Hahaha Thanks... I know speaking of this in this forum is asking for trouble. I think that sometimes the "closed" architecture of apple hardware/software really causes a lot of the frustrations with me.
Trust us, we understand. They are monopolizing their products to work with one another. A great example is the MBA. The superdrive strictly works with the MBA, for music and movies you are expected to use iTunes. And once again with their iPods and iPhones. It's business, and they are trying to mak money since they know their fanboys will "oooh and ahhh" about any product Steve says is cool.

Don't get me wrong, I love Apple's products, but it is kind of rediculous.
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Old Feb 1, 2008, 10:49 AM   #25
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How do you really feel? Maybe I can assist you in remember why you were drawn to applehttp://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Win...e62a21033.mspx
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