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Old Feb 10, 2008, 05:03 PM   #1
chchdesign
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Mail 3.1 - how to attach a jpeg/gif so it isn't embedded?

I've been using a MAC for about 9 months now and have until this week used Entourage. However I've just installed Leopard and thought I'd give Mac Mail a crack.

I like it but have one major issue which will force me back to Entourage unless I can sort it. That being...

When I attach JPEG or GIF images and send them to a Windows user the image becomes embedded into the mail. It's no longer an attachment and so the windows user can't save it. Other documents attach fine. It's only JPEG and GIF (so far) that swap from 'attached' to 'embedded'.

I have 'send windows friendly attachments' ticked, and I always make sure the file has a file type extension (.jpg or .gif).

Please help! I don't want to go back to Entourage!!!

James
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Old Feb 10, 2008, 05:11 PM   #2
jsw
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Does Mail->Edit->Attachments...->Always Insert Attachments at End of File help at all?
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Old Feb 10, 2008, 05:21 PM   #3
chchdesign
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Fixed my own problem!

Thanks for the quick reply jsw - but no it doesn't make any difference.

I've actually found a fix to the problem (by accident ) If you attach the file and then click on it and tell it to show as an icon it appears as an attachment on the PC. If you just attach as normal, Mac mail embeds it?? That is such a dumb thing to do.

If anyone knows how to stop mac mail from doing this I'd still be interested in hearing from them. I don't want to have to attach/change to icon view for every image I try to email.

James

Last edited by chchdesign; Feb 10, 2008 at 05:26 PM. Reason: spelling mistake
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Old Feb 10, 2008, 05:29 PM   #4
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I'm glad you found a workaround, and I agree that it should be a preference, but I disagree that it's dumb. I prefer to see the images without having to double-click on them and open them elsewhere, and I think it's a limitation of Outlook, not an issue with Mail, that makes it hard for users to save them, although can't they just drag them to their desktops?
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Old Feb 10, 2008, 05:35 PM   #5
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It thought that is what the "send windows friendly attachments" checkbox is supposed to fix.
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Old Feb 10, 2008, 05:50 PM   #6
chchdesign
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsw View Post
I'm glad you found a workaround, and I agree that it should be a preference, but I disagree that it's dumb. I prefer to see the images without having to double-click on them and open them elsewhere, and I think it's a limitation of Outlook, not an issue with Mail, that makes it hard for users to save them, although can't they just drag them to their desktops?
The reason I thought it 'dumb' was that if I attach a file I want it attached, not embedded. If I wanted it embedded I'd have cut and copied the image into the message.

Yes it is a limitation of outlook but seeing as a large majority of people around the world use it for email it would be easier for everyone if Mac Mail attached in an outlook friendly way.

AND before anyone flames me for that remark lots more people use outlook than Mac Mail (poor fools I know ), I don't like the Microsoft dominance either BUT it is a fact of life.

James

Quote:
Originally Posted by yippy View Post
It thought that is what the "send windows friendly attachments" checkbox is supposed to fix.
All that does is discards the resource fork part of the attached file so Windows machines don't get confused.

James

Been messing around all morning trying to sort this out. Gave up and posted my original plea for help only to stumble on the answer myself!

And it would appear others are having the same problem which is why this handy chap has developed this shareware 'fix'

http://lokiware.info/Mail-Attachments-Iconizer

Saves all that swapping images to icons before you send the mail. Thanks Loki!

James

Last edited by devilot; Feb 10, 2008 at 05:57 PM. Reason: Merged posts; please use "Edit" and/or "Multi-Quote"
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Old Feb 20, 2008, 11:16 PM   #7
Enlade
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Not too happy with Mac Mail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsw View Post
...but I disagree that it's dumb. I prefer to see the images...
Sure it is nice to sometimes see the images embedded, but these days most tools that are used to block spam do so based on how much of the message consists of embedded images.

Plus, if the image is large then it just makes a mess out of the email if you have no easy way to NOT embed it. I don't want to have to kill myself formatting the image just to get a silly photo to my folks when it is just fine for them to receive it as a file attachment. But I can't seem to do that very easily using Mac mail. It is so very un-apple like to make things so difficult.

The biggest problem is that when you send a message to a PC user you just don't know how they are going to receive it. You end up asking yourself "Did I send that right? Did I check that checkbox to send the message as windows friendly and did I also remember to also check the checkbox on the attachment window that also says windows friendly? Did I right click and set it to icon? Was it sent as Rich Text or just Text? Does it auto embed the type of file that I am sending or does it auto attach it? What happens when I send a file without an extension? Did I remember to add the extension properly?" There are just so many things to remember to do and it is just not easy to tell if I did it right by what I view in the Sent folder on my Apple. How am I to know before I hit that send button that the Windows user will get the message as I want them to get it? It is very hard to be certain how it will look to a Windows user. In fact, odds are it will nearly always look unlike you want it to look.

Apple did a very messy job with attachments/embedding. It is just a very messy way to do it. I'd give Apple a D- on this one (can't bring myself to ever give Apple an F, I mean, I own their stock).
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Old Feb 21, 2008, 08:27 AM   #8
provence
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embed image in email

What if I want to embed an image in my email, sent to Windows? I want to have a small image (at 72dpi) at the top of the email, like a logo. When I do this, sometimes it comes through in Windows as embedded, but often it's a TIF attachment, which they cannot open. But I want it to be a part of the email. Any suggestions?
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Old Feb 21, 2008, 11:54 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enlade View Post
Sure it is nice to sometimes see the images embedded, but these days most tools that are used to block spam do so based on how much of the message consists of embedded images.

Plus, if the image is large then it just makes a mess out of the email if you have no easy way to NOT embed it. I don't want to have to kill myself formatting the image just to get a silly photo to my folks when it is just fine for them to receive it as a file attachment. But I can't seem to do that very easily using Mac mail. It is so very un-apple like to make things so difficult.

The biggest problem is that when you send a message to a PC user you just don't know how they are going to receive it. You end up asking yourself "Did I send that right? Did I check that checkbox to send the message as windows friendly and did I also remember to also check the checkbox on the attachment window that also says windows friendly? Did I right click and set it to icon? Was it sent as Rich Text or just Text? Does it auto embed the type of file that I am sending or does it auto attach it? What happens when I send a file without an extension? Did I remember to add the extension properly?" There are just so many things to remember to do and it is just not easy to tell if I did it right by what I view in the Sent folder on my Apple. How am I to know before I hit that send button that the Windows user will get the message as I want them to get it? It is very hard to be certain how it will look to a Windows user. In fact, odds are it will nearly always look unlike you want it to look.

Apple did a very messy job with attachments/embedding. It is just a very messy way to do it. ...
You are working way too hard for not particularly good reasons. First off, you seem to believe that email messages are documents that may contain both text and graphics. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Email is ASCII text. Don't believe me? Open a message in a text editor. You will see the text of your message followed by the seeming gibberish which are the attachments encoded in ASCII and appended to your message's clear text. That "gibberish" is what happens when binary data are encoded into ASCII text. There are several encoding schemes. Most mail clients understand most of them.

How messages are viewed is determined at the recipient's end by his/her email client. Text appears formatted only because the recipient's mail client understands the formatting codes. HTML is rendered only because the recipient's mail client understands HTML. Graphics appear inline only because the recipient's mail client recognizes an attachment is a graphic in a format that it understands. For example, MacOS X mail clients, including Mail, display PDF files as embedded graphics because QuickTime handles graphics and PDF is a graphics format that QuickTime understands. A Windows user who receives the same message will only see a PDF icon.

Businesses like to send highly formatted HTML mail because it can convey their message nicely formatted without having to attach a PDF file. Professional individuals tend to prefer plain text. It is small, quick, and gets the job done. If, however, you want to send highly formatted messages to your little friends, then I suggest that you go with HTML. It is your best shot at having your buddies receive the messages that look like you want them. Leopard Mail allows you to compose HTML messages.
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Old May 8, 2008, 06:20 PM   #10
Xykon
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Easy solution.

In bottom right, instead of showing as small, medium or large, you must say Show actual size. This will keep the attachment as a .pdf or whatever.
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Old May 9, 2008, 12:30 AM   #11
Enlade
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Think you missed me point...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterMe View Post
A Windows user who receives the same message will only see a PDF icon....
Yes, the Windows user will receive it as a PDF icon IF YOU REMEMBER TO CHECK THE SEND AS WINDOWS FORMAT CHECKBOX AND CLICK ON THE SHOW AS ICON OPTION when you send the PDF file. Otherwise, the Windows user will get a bunch of BINHEX like characters (pages and pages of them).

This is complicated by the way that mac mail ALWAYS embeds images. In other words, there is no way to send an image as an attachment to anyone. You seem to be unaware that images can be embedded or attached, and mac mail ALWAYS embeds them. Yes, in both cases the images are inserted as text in the message, but they are inserted in different ways that indicates to the receiving mail client software how they are to be treated. There is just no reason for Apple to decide for us that we are not allowed to send images as attachements. It is easy enough for Apple to give us that options (attach or embed).

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterMe View Post
It is your best shot at having your buddies receive the messages that look like you want them.
Again, this has nothing to do with my point. I want to send an image to a mac user and/or windows user as an attachment (NOT EMBEDDED). That cannot be done with mac mail. I'm simply saying that that is a silly limitation that Apple should fix. You should always have the option of embedding or attaching files instead of Apple deciding for you which it wants you to do.

In any case, I went ahead and purchased a program called Iconizer.

http://lokiware.info/Mail-Attachments-Iconizer

It solves the problem nicely and it works great.
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Old May 9, 2008, 05:55 AM   #12
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For all the people defending it, you have to remember that if you were emailing 5 megapixel or higher photos, then having these enormous images embedded into the email is impractical. I wasn't aware of this limitation and i see it as bad design, people are always too eager to jump to Apples defence rather than trying to solve a problem someone has. Embedding something you have added through 'add attachment' is unintuitive.
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Old May 9, 2008, 08:40 AM   #13
MisterMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enlade View Post
....

This is complicated by the way that mac mail ALWAYS embeds images. ...
To both you and JoeKozy, I was trying to explain the technology to you. If you don't understand the technology, then you will have great difficulty in working around its implementation. I will repeat: There is no such thing as embedded graphics in non-HTML email. Your email client displays graphics inline that QuickTime understands. Don't believe it? Have a Linux-using friend to use pine to email a .jpg file to you.

Do you want to light a candle or to curse the darkness? If you are sending mail, then you can workaround this feature by zipping the files that you want to send.
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Old May 9, 2008, 09:49 AM   #14
Enlade
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterMe View Post
There is no such thing as embedded graphics in non-HTML email.
Yea, I like how you added the "non-HTML" clarifier to your statement, but who here was ever talking about sending pure text emails? I mean, it seems pretty clear from the use of the word "embedded" that we were not talking about pure text emails.

Also, I understand that all data (attachment or embedded data) is transmitted as text (html or non-html, it is all text), but that does not mean that there is NO format/layout encoding that goes along with the email (HTML and otherwise). Email is encoded like any other communication between computers, and it is even further encoded when you talk about sending HTML emails. That encoding includes layout/format information (which is abundant in HTML). All of which allows the sender to indicate how messages are to be viewed by the receiver. Mac mail chooses to encode images as embedded into the email rather then give me a choice to indicate how I would prefer the recipient to receive those images (like say choosing between HTML embedded images or simply as email attachements).

Now, none of this is a matter of whether I can workaround the limitations of mac mail. Obviously I can find workarounds. So, yes, I can jump the hoops and get my files sent to both mac and PC recipients, but it is a little irritating to have to do that. Which is why I was very happy to find the Iconizer program. It makes it easy to send my formated emails exactly the way I want them sent with little or no effort on my part.

Also, don't get me wrong here. I think mac mail has a number of advantages as well and I prefer to use it (particularly with Iconizer running). This is simply a constructive criticism on my part.

You might want to go to the Iconizer website as they layout the problem a little more accurately then I am doing here. It might help you understand a little better how mac mail deals with attachements in a less then flexible way.
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Old May 9, 2008, 10:08 AM   #15
numlock
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i just tried sending a pdf and a jpg (they were both embedded in the email and not icons) to someone who has outlook and they received the mail with attachments.
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Old May 9, 2008, 10:57 AM   #16
DLH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chchdesign View Post
When I attach JPEG or GIF images and send them to a Windows user the image becomes embedded into the mail. It's no longer an attachment and so the windows user can't save it.
They can right-click on an image and then select "Save Picture As...".

While it might be nice to have an option to always display images as icons, the default behavior is probably best for the majority of users.
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Old Jun 15, 2008, 03:18 PM   #17
roycemac
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I thinik after reading this thread the most troubling line is:

Quote:
the default behavior is probably best for the majority of users.
That is just Orwellian thinking. I like Mac OS too, but that kind of blind faith is disturbing.
Several folks here seem to be missing the point that was originally made...THERE IS NO CHOICE.
The beauty of the Internet, software and hardware has always been that CHOICE is the cornerstone of the entire system.
Apple, in creating NO CHOICE as to how a jpg attachment is sent, does seem a bit odd given the all of the other thousand amazing things they have offered up in their OS and User Interface.

Persoanlly, I would rather NOT read an email cluttered with pics..and I don't use my computer to send emails to my 'little friends'. I use it strictly for business...and I use both Mac & PC. To arbitrarily decide how others should view email & attachments is unduly restrictive and should be explained by Apple.
And what if I want to send the family photos to my 'little friends'? Should they have to open the email and wade through 5 pics....and no, you cannot always 'right-click' on a pic that has arrived embedded from a Mac and save it. You information and knowledge is just wrong on that.

Again, thanks to whomever posted the LOKI url. Hopefully this will bring this attachment nonsense to an end and I can send pics from my MAC as Attachments like the other Grown-Ups using the Internet.

Apple gets an 'F' on this one. No excuses for no choices.
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Old Jun 15, 2008, 03:57 PM   #18
roycemac
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Downloaded the Loki iconizer software, installed it on the Mac, tested it and there, in my PC, was a nice clean email with an ICON jpg Attachment.

Worked perfectly...took about 20 seconds to download & install it.
Definitely worth the $15 to register. They have completely and easily fixed a known MAC Problem.

Thanks, CHCH for the heads up on this fix!
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Old Jul 7, 2008, 11:50 AM   #19
benpatient
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLH View Post
They can right-click on an image and then select "Save Picture As...".

While it might be nice to have an option to always display images as icons, the default behavior is probably best for the majority of users.
yes, you can do that, but it converts the images to BMP files.

Not very convenient when you're sending a client animated .gif images with transparency, now is it?

Thanks to OP for figuring out the work-around, and boo to Apple for leaving this so messed up for so long. I just switched back to using Mail instead of Entourage, and I'd forgotten about my attachment problems back in Tiger when some attachments I sent didn't work. You'd think they would fix stuff like this within weeks, not years...I can't decide which work-around is better...right-click (icon) or zip and attach.

όber-lame.
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Old Oct 7, 2011, 10:22 PM   #20
greendragonfly
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And it would appear others are having the same problem which is why this handy chap has developed this shareware 'fix'

http://lokiware.info/Mail-Attachments-Iconizer

Saves all that swapping images to icons before you send the mail. Thanks Loki!

James[/QUOTE]

I too was having this problem but the lokiware attachment worked beautifully. Thanks for the suggestion.
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Old Jan 2, 2012, 05:27 PM   #21
leewizza
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Tamer issues

Hi guys,

Have been reading the above post for a solution to my problem.
I send out a few emails every to hundreds of clients. Some use pc, some Mac, some iPhone, some Ipad to view their emails.
I have been using Attachment Tamer too. Although this morning realized that when I sent myself an email from home (Mac Mail) with attachments to my iPad I cannot view the attachments! They won't open as Tamer Creates them as files that need to be downloaded. iPads and iPhone don't allow downloads so I'm unable to download the attachments.
Considering over 50% of our clients view their emails from an iPhone or iPad I'm stuck as to what to do...
Any ideas?

Need a simple solution to cover all bases.

Thanks
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