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Old Feb 19, 2008, 11:38 AM   #76
JakeDTS
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Apple TV

first post!!

wait..its my first post. hello macrumors people!

I think 72 hours would be a good round number. I guess if its the way the industry is though there isn't much that can be done to change it?

I am gonna have to consider apple tv pretty hard I guess before I buy because movies in my life take the backseat to everything else(doing useful and productive things comes first)..I do like that they offer it for 30 days though because i dont think I've ever had a 30 day period where I didn't luck upon 2 free hours in a row at one point or another!

netflix was cool until you realize you only have the three movies at your house to watch and if you're not in the mood for those (or have a crap pc for streaming) you're out of luck.

you can still buy movies in the itunes store and watch them on Apple TV correct? maybe they'll do something like the "complete my album" thing they did with music where its like "you rented x movie and if you liked it enough to own it pay an additonal 5.99 and you get the download..who knows. I am constantly impressed by and what they come up with next so i'm sure its not gonna stop now.
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Old Feb 19, 2008, 11:52 AM   #77
Gasu E.
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There seem to be two types of posters here:

A. People who think the window should be extended because they feel 24 hours is not convenient for them

B. People who think people in A. should change their lifestyles to accomodate the 24 hour restriction.

People of type B: are you, like, nuts?
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Old Feb 19, 2008, 12:09 PM   #78
verity
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Originally Posted by cisco1138 View Post
What if they offered "erase as you watch"? The part of the movie you have already seen goes POOF a minute after you view it, and they give you 30 days to complete the entire movie, but you will only get to view it once.
Oh no, that would be terrible. Not being able to rewind in case I missed some part of a conversation or want to check out the beginning again because something was there somebody missed? I can live with 24 hours for some movies I want to see that very evening, but not with a part of the movie going POOF on me.
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Old Feb 19, 2008, 12:51 PM   #79
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Wow, the apologists are out in full swing these days.

I think it is perfectly reasonable to suggest that while the 30 day window to start watching is fair, the 24 hr timeframe could accommodate a lot more people if it were 48 or 72 hours.

I can't fathom why someone would want to virulently defend something like this. It is hard to imagine what would be lost by extending somewhat beyond 24 hrs. It isn't like this move is going to put someone out of business or even make a tangible dent in anyone's revenue.

Constructive criticism and feedback are the tools that lets companies know how to fine tune their products and services. Believe it or not, when you own a business, you want this type of feedback. It is ultimately how you grow your business and appeal to more people. It is difficult to read minds.
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Old Feb 19, 2008, 01:01 PM   #80
mdriftmeyer
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Originally Posted by termite View Post
  1. Many movies are longer than 2 hours
  2. Hard though it may be to beleive, you can pause Mac Forums for more than 24 hours without losing your place.
  3. Parenting is not as predictable as you think.
  4. My job involves actual responsibility. I can't go home just because it is quittin time.
  5. I spend very little time in the Mac Forums, but thank you for playing.
  6. While I would normally be happy to respond to a flame in kind (usually involving a "your mom" joke), this is supposed to be a more civil forum where such behavior is less tolerated, so I won't.
You aren't paying for the Forums.
General movie lengths are just over 90 minutes. Several are 120 minutes and the rare exception is 180 minutes. I articulated the 2 hour time length as being what most long dramas run.
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Old Feb 19, 2008, 01:07 PM   #81
quantumbits
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Originally Posted by StrongBad View Post
I wonder how many people tried to take a several hour break in the middle of some great movies like Memento, The Usual Suspects, Primer, or Fight Club and when they were over, formed the opinion they just watched a bad movies since they weren't able to get 'lost' in it.

Welcome to America...
I find it ironic that you chose Memento, The Usual Suspects, Primer and Fight Club as your examples. IME, all of these movies begged for a repeat viewing upon the final resolution of the plot. This is precisely the reason why I will not patronize this service until Apple offers at least a 48 hour window. Sometimes I like to watch, ponder and watch again. I can do that with Netflx and Blockbuster. I can't with a 24 hour rental window...unless I'm content to sit on the couch for upwards of 5 hours in a single evening. But then you'd probably start b!tching and moaning about the incidence of heart disease and diabetes in this country.
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Old Feb 19, 2008, 01:11 PM   #82
TatsuTerror
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General movie lengths are just over 90 minutes. Several are 120 minutes and the rare exception is 180 minutes. I articulated the 2 hour time length as being what most long dramas run.
Most movies are around two hours these days.
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Old Feb 19, 2008, 01:26 PM   #83
kuwisdelu
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Originally Posted by JakeDTS View Post
you can still buy movies in the itunes store and watch them on Apple TV correct? maybe they'll do something like the "complete my album" thing they did with music where its like "you rented x movie and if you liked it enough to own it pay an additonal 5.99 and you get the download..who knows. I am constantly impressed by and what they come up with next so i'm sure its not gonna stop now.
I think this would be an awesome idea. The 24-hour window thing is kind of annoying if I want to re-watch a movie before being done with it, but if I had this option, I could just buy it and watch it whenever I want (seeing as how if I liked it enough to re-watch it once, I probably liked it enough to re-watch it more than once). I really do hope they implement this, because then I might actually use it, and they would still be making money without compromising anything, so I don't see why they wouldn't.
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Old Feb 19, 2008, 01:35 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post
You aren't paying for the Forums.
General movie lengths are just over 90 minutes. Several are 120 minutes and the rare exception is 180 minutes. I articulated the 2 hour time length as being what most long dramas run.
Don't forget to take into account the time it takes to browse the ITMS and initiate the download process, then wait for the download to buffer for a few minutes. A 120 minute HD movie might take 160.

(HD is the only format I will consider renting)
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Old Feb 19, 2008, 01:43 PM   #85
Akira1980
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Here is what I would like.

30 Days to watch video, and you get to keep the video for 30 days after you watched it. Also, if you want to watch the movies you rented in the past, it will only cost $1.

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Old Feb 19, 2008, 01:53 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by StrongBad View Post
in my very humble (but very correct) opinion, the movie experience (plot, story, dialogue, etc) is lost if you stop the movie and restart it. As a film maker, I'd be PISSED OFF if you stopped my movie and came back 20+ hours later and attempted to follow the story. I bet you are the same people that ask questions in movie theaters ("is that the bad guy?" / "didn't she just leave him?")

I wonder how many people tried to take a several hour break in the middle of some great movies like Memento, The Usual Suspects, Primer, or Fight Club and when they were over, formed the opinion they just watched a bad movies since they weren't able to get 'lost' in it.

Welcome to America. Home of the "I don't have enough time to do my own lawn work, drive without talking on the phone, cook a real dinner, or watch a 2 hour movie". Land of the one hour photo, fast food, and 30 minutes or less.
That's me! How observantly erudite of you, to infer from my selfish unwillingness to put off the more "important" parts of my life to properly view Your Film that I would likewise actively seek to reduce everyone else's viewing pleasure of Your Movie, for, obviously, my aim is to attack in any way possible any and all enjoyment of Your Movie.

I bet you even knew that I trip old ladies in the street and steal candy from babies!

Quote:
I should move to Canada, eh?
Perhaps!

Really, though, if how people watch Your Movie pisses you off so, then perhaps you should consider a career change. IMHO, the viewer has 100% right to control how and when they enjoy your entertainment.

For the record: I do my own lawn work (although at times it shows ), avoid talking on the phone while driving at all costs, enjoy home cooked meals (my wife is the far better cook than I, though, so I don't cook them myself), and haven't been to a one-hour photo in about a decade (I'd much rather spend the time in my "digital darkroom" getting the picture I want than handing it over to some pimply-faced machine operator who doesn't realize that the side of that house is really supposed to be white, not a pale green).

I just value ALL of those things, plus time with my children and a well-paying job, more highly than passively absorbing Your Movie. Which is why they can and will interrupt my viewing of Your Movie. If you feel that is outside your terms of service, by all means please post such on the cover of Your Movie so I can avoid violating your sense of decency!

In the meantime, a movie is a good way to pass a few hours if nothing else is going on. I tend to watch 2-3 movies per week (sometimes more, sometimes less), fitting them into my schedule where I can, because I foolishly enjoy the results of the efforts of file makers such as yourself. That doesn't by any stretch of the imagination mean that it should completely trump any and all other concerns in life while it is playing.
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Old Feb 19, 2008, 01:57 PM   #87
StrongBad
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Originally Posted by quantumbits View Post
I find it ironic that you chose Memento, The Usual Suspects, Primer and Fight Club as your examples. IME, all of these movies begged for a repeat viewing upon the final resolution of the plot. This is precisely the reason why I will not patronize this service until Apple offers at least a 48 hour window.
Rent it, watch it, return it (or let it expire), digest it.

Did your brain like what it just saw? Do you need a repeat view to understand? Buy it.
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Old Feb 19, 2008, 02:06 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by jettredmont View Post
Really, though, if how people watch Your Movie pisses you off so, then perhaps you should consider a career change. IMHO, the viewer has 100% right to control how and when they enjoy your entertainment.
The viewer has just as much right to dictate their terms of viewing (and enjoyment) as I have in how I want my work seen and interpreted. Just as I have the right to drive my car with all the windows down and the AC on in December, I listen to the manufacturer's advice and roll up the windows and try the heat. While this right exists, I may be sacrificing some quality or feature along the way.

And, just as written lyrics in song are free to heard in any manner, they hold only one meaning to the author and were intended to be heard in a specific way. This is the optimal scenario. If the viewer decides to ignore the creators advice, the end product may suffer.

This is one reason forms of entertainment that require less thought or interaction do better monetarily. Simply put, true art in all creative mediums does not exist for casual consumption. So while you can eat a TV dinner and play with the dog while you watch 'The Godfather", I think Francis Ford Coppola might have envisioned it differently.
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Old Feb 19, 2008, 02:22 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by jettredmont View Post
Why would sitting passively absorbing the content of a movie take priority over, say, spending time with our children and at paying jobs? It seems that you are perhaps the one who should examine priorities.
I'm glad you feel that way, because you should be spending time with your kids instead of watching movies (or television). My priorities are fine... thank you very much. If I rent a movie and something comes up that keeps me from watching it, I just pay extra to keep the movie or return it. I don't whine about having to pay another buck or two if it works out better for my schedule.
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Old Feb 19, 2008, 02:24 PM   #90
quantumbits
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Did your brain like what it just saw? Do you need a repeat view to understand? Buy it.
Er, I can have my cake and eat it too when I go the Netflix or Blockbuster routes: I can pay a fraction of the purchase cost AND I get to watch the movie a 2nd time if I'm so inclined. IOW, I don't have to subscribe to any such binomial nonsense (i.e. watch once or BUY! to watch twice). My original point stands.
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Old Feb 19, 2008, 02:35 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by StrongBad View Post
This is one reason forms of entertainment that require less thought or interaction do better monetarily. Simply put, true art in all creative mediums does not exist for casual consumption. So while you can eat a TV dinner and play with the dog while you watch 'The Godfather", I think Francis Ford Coppola might have envisioned it differently.
Well said. It's one of the reasons that "good" movies (movies that require thought and intelligence to appreciate) suffer financially at the box office. Nowadays, the general public doesn't have the intelligence or patience to sit in a dark room and think about what they are watching. They get distracted easily so if they want to watch a "good" movie, they wait for DVD and try to extend it over a 3 day viewing period. Oh, how that must suck! Imagine having to watch movies like Memento or Usual Suspects over multiple sessions. Of course, anything with Will Ferrel or Rob Schneider could be watched from the middle or even backwards and they would have the same value.
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Old Feb 19, 2008, 03:52 PM   #92
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Well, it's better than "24 hour rental" physically (i.e., rent in the evening, return the next morning).

Still, I think it should be 36 hours, just to allow time the next night in case something comes up whilst you are watching the film.

30 days to start watching it is good though.

I like the idea of being able to pay a nominal fee to extend a rental once you start watching it, and keeping rentals on the system for a while after watching so you can re-rent and not re-download. I hope that these can be enacted once the movie studios stop being so paranoid.
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Old Feb 19, 2008, 04:18 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Gasu E. View Post
There seem to be two types of posters here:

A. People who think the window should be extended because they feel 24 hours is not convenient for them

B. People who think people in A. should change their lifestyles to accomodate the 24 hour restriction.

People of type B: are you, like, nuts?
(B) is what is usually called a "straw man". A flawed argument that has been put up for the sole purpose of being torn down immediately, thereby apparently supporting the opposite argument.

The problem with the straw man argument is that it is considered to be intellectually dishonest, so when people see through it, your argument is lost.
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Old Feb 19, 2008, 05:46 PM   #94
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I'd like to see the 24 hours extended for my own convenience. The rental service would be worth more to me that way. If Apple charged a dollar more for the 48-hour version, I might accept that, but only if I could pay it after the fact and not have to guess up front whether my movie-watching will be interrupted on a given day. But I know that's not Apple's way. Apple prefers simplicity.

The tricks people have found may make it unnecessary to live with the 24-hour limitation, but Apple could close that loophole with a software update.

Meanwhile, the 30-day window is much wider than I need. Why bother renting it so far ahead? If I rent something I'm not planning to watch yet, there's a good chance my preference for what to watch will change anyway. If you had only 24 hours to start watching, I'd be fine because I'll rent when I'm ready to watch.
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Old Feb 19, 2008, 06:07 PM   #95
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I know it's not Apple's fault - Amazon's terms for downloaded movie rentals are basically identical - but...

I've had too many Netflix DVDs end up half watched one day, then the rest watched several days to a week later, to believe the current rental scheme will ever take off. Maybe that's what the studios have in mind - it's a misguided attempt to keep the digital age at bay. But from an end-user point of view, this is very much anti-user-friendly.

Maybe young, single people just don't have as many interruptions in their lives?
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Old Feb 19, 2008, 06:29 PM   #96
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I think parents of toddlers should circulate a petition. What would be such a big deal about making it 30 or 36 hours?
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Old Feb 19, 2008, 06:58 PM   #97
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I didn't have time to read every post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark2288 View Post
24 hours is not sufficient. 36 would make it much more comfortable.
That's nonsense. There should be no time limit to watch the movie period. What they should do is allow you to rent 2 to 3 movies at a time - maybe more - and allow you as much time as you want to watch them pause it and come back 3 months later. However you can't rent additional movies once you've reached a download limit. Then you have to remove one of them in order to download/rent another.

Sometimes you think you have time to watch a movie and something comes up and you don't. Perhaps you started to watch a movie and you get a phone call that your uncle is in the hospital. Of course the movie doesn't mean crap at that point and you're off to the hospital. Well you shouldn't lose out because of this. You should be able to watch the movie, that you paid money for, three weeks later when Uncle John Doe is out and you have time.

Rental time limits are fine when you have physical media that comes from a store with limited quantity. But digital copies never need to be returned and therefore should never have a time limit to watch. Just a limit on how many you can rent before you have to remove one. Simple enough.
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Old Feb 19, 2008, 09:50 PM   #98
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So while you can eat a TV dinner and play with the dog while you watch 'The Godfather", I think Francis Ford Coppola might have envisioned it differently.
Yup, Francis has a right to specify how and where his movies will be seen. But it's the consumers who will determine whether he'll be successful financially. With Apple TV, the marketplace will ultimately decide how it goes.
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Old Feb 20, 2008, 08:52 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by gnasher729 View Post
(B) is what is usually called a "straw man". A flawed argument that has been put up for the sole purpose of being torn down immediately, thereby apparently supporting the opposite argument.

The problem with the straw man argument is that it is considered to be intellectually dishonest, so when people see through it, your argument is lost.
It's not a straw man when it effectively reflects reality. Unless I'm misreading here, people saying we need to get our priorities straight and/or manage our time better because we occasionally don't have a solid 2-hour time window to watch a movie do, in fact, "think people in A. should change their lifestyles to accomodate the 24 hour restriction".

How is that a strawman?
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Old Feb 20, 2008, 09:21 AM   #100
jettredmont
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Originally Posted by StrongBad View Post
Rent it, watch it, return it (or let it expire), digest it.

Did your brain like what it just saw? Do you need a repeat view to understand? Buy it.
Why? What advantage is there to have the disc sitting on a shelf gathering dust? Why not watch it again while you have it rented instead of buying it to watch it a second time?

IMHO, the trigger for buying a disc is the expectation that you'll want to view the movie again (multiple times) several weeks later and/or pass it around amongst family/friends. I have way too many discs sitting on my shelf which likely will not be watched again, ever, to see this (if you need to watch a second time to "get it", or want to watch a second time to see it from the perspective of the ending having been figured out, buy it) as good advice.

FWIW, I own Fight Club, and do watch it again on occasion (four o five times since I bought it). That's one non-regret in my DVD collection. This isn't because the "twist" made me watch it over and over again, but because it's a damned fine movie. Obviously, the "twist" only works the first time you see a movie.
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