HandBrake ripping compatibility tests

[nojokejones]

Originally Posted by dynaflash

Um, yeah I might know someone at HB. But why not just make your own ?

Ha! Because then we wouldn't have to rattle off 3 pages in a forum to get to the answer.

[dynaflash]

Originally Posted by nojokejones

Ha! Because then we wouldn't have to rattle off 3 pages in a forum to get to the answer.

Well, try it, if you like it make your own preset. Thats really what they are there for.

[AliensAreFuzzy]

You know, with 0.9.1 I had a preset set up that worked a great hybrid for TV and iPod, iPhone, and iPod Touch. But when I tried to use it with 0.9.2, it stopped working. That same preset wouldn't work on iPods anymore. I've tried finding a setting that would work, but I haven't had any luck. I get much better video quality out of 0.9.1

[Digital-HT]

many of you are giving great info on the best settings for different devices, Thanks you for that.

But im trying to figure out what would be the BEST settings with only AppleTV in mind. the size of the file does not matter. I just want the best audio/video quality. I don't need the file to be compatible with anything else, just AppleTV.

Thanks!

[cohibadad]

You should check out the HB forums. I believe there is a thread dedicated to just that. HB settings for best quality pushing the TV to the limits. My simple answer would be just use the TV preset. It really is quite good. You probably want to check autoselect subtitles and forced subtitles only. Getting the right subtitles to display takes a little tinkering. But for audio and video quality, TV preset is a pretty brainless way to get excellent quality.

[Digital-HT]

Originally Posted by cohibadad

You should check out the HB forums. I believe there is a thread dedicated to just that. HB settings for best quality pushing the TV to the limits. My simple answer would be just use the TV preset. It really is quite good. You probably want to check autoselect subtitles and forced subtitles only. Getting the right subtitles to display takes a little tinkering. But for audio and video quality, TV preset is a pretty brainless way to get excellent quality.

thanks! I'll check it out...

[ukor]

I have been running some tests of this with these settings and I cannot get AC-3 to output when included with AAC. I have installed and configured Perian on my Mac Mini that is toslinked to my Yamaha AVR. I get 6.1 using the Incredibles as a test with just AC-3 Passthrough, but when I add in AAC, I only get Dolby Prologic II in Front Row and QuickTime. Also, VLC complains about not having an AC-3 codec? Why won't it pass it through as it would with the DVD? Also the PCM light is on on the AVR.

Am I doing something wrong or is this as expected?

[slffl]

I have a question about AppleTV and Handbrake.

I've tried ripping content using both the AppleTV and iPhone presets. I've noticed that the AppleTV files can't be transferred to the iPhone until you convert it. However, I would like to just have one file and not have to convert.

So since I don't own an AppleTV yet, I'm wondering if movies ripped using the iPhone preset will play on the AppleTV without any addition converting?

[dynaflash]

Originally Posted by slffl

I'm wondering if movies ripped using the iPhone preset will play on the AppleTV without any addition converting?

yes. Though the quality will be marginal in all likelihood. Try one.

[Fromasta Flex]

I'm ripping movies with these settings and every once in a while, but rarely, there will be a blocky blip in the video, kind of like what HD TV looks like when it loses its signal for a second. I've converted the same movie twice and it does it in both files, though in different places. Anyone know what's up?

[kagharaht]

I don't have Handbrake for Windows and trying to help out a friend.

With 0.9.2 selecting AAC passthrough only for ATV will not play the audio on Windows iTunes/Quicktime locally but should play fine in ATV?

In order to play locally in iTunes or Quicktime in Windows, the AAC + AC3 audio must be selected correct?

[kikobarbada]

Hello. This is a very useful guide. It is the most important topic about Handbrake but I believe it is a bit confusing. I have made a design to help the topic. It would be great if you'd use it.

It is attatched on this post.

HandBrake ripping compatibility tests

By: Cowm007

Table of Contents

• i - Revision history
• 1.0 - Introduction
• 2.0 - Proposal
• 3.0 - Testing
• 4.0 - Results
• 5.0 - Credits

i - Revision history
» 02/19/2008 - Created the guide
» 03/12/2008 - Edited it to cool format

1.0 - Introduction
» This guide was made for you who does not know what settings to put on Handbrake in order to have a good-looking file that is compatible with iPods, iPhone, and the Apple TV.

2.0 - Proposal
I don't know how many of you are in the same situation as me, but I have a few Apple devices I'd like to play my media on. I'd also like to have only 1 file that plays across all the platforms and has the best quality/size ratio possible. I've looked online for such a solution but found mixed results so I've decided to run my own tests using the newly released HandBrake version 0.9.2.

I'm testing the files on various devices. They are as follows:
• iTunes 7.6
• Apple TV Take 2
• iPhone with 1.1.3 Firmware
• 3g iPod nano with 1.1. Firmware

3.0 - Testing
My hardware is a MacBook with a 2Ghz Core 2 duo and 3GB of RAM. I'm ripping chapter 1 of the "Groundhog Day" widescreen DVD which has 5.1 audio and multiple languages. For quality, I always do 2-pass encoding as it helps immensely with fast scene changes. For benchmark purposes, I get 60fps average on the 1st pass and 19fps average on the 2nd pass at the 1500 kbps bitrate.

Alright here's my results placed into a nice easy to read chart. Basically what I can gather is that the HandBrake team has done a great job in terms of compatibility and that Apple has understated the iPhone/iPod's potential. I'm happy to find that both my iPod and iPhone were able to handle the full sized anamorphic DVD rip with 4 audio tracks (AAC and AC3).

The settings I choose were based off the "iPod High" preset. My rationale for the tested resolutions is based off Apple's published iPhone/iPod specs. http://www.apple.com/iphone/specs.html According to them, the max resolution the iPhone can handle is 640x480 @ 1500kbps. I found out what this actually means is that the max pixel count the iPhone can handle is 307,200 pixels (640 times 480). So the 720x400 was the highest you can get a widescreen rip (non-anamorphic) and still be under the max pixel count (288,000 px).

Surprisingly though, the iPhone/iPod were able to handle the full resolution 708x466 (329,928 px) without complaints. Since the resolution limit was higher that I expected, I decided to test other bit-rates as well. I tried both 2500 and then 5000kbps. The results are as follows.

Important note: You HAVE to choose the iPod/iPhone preset first and crank up the setting from there if you want to get these high quality cross-device files. If you choose the Apple TV preset and go from there they won't work. I'm guessing it's got something to do with the advanced flags. Also, it didn't matter if I checked the "iPod Atom" flag or not. I'm not sure anymore what it's for, maybe some older iPods require it but I don't have any to test with.

4.0 - Results



Extrapolating the data, the average sizes for a 90 minute movie file should be as follows:
• All@1500kbps, 2x AAC: 1,188 MB
• All@1500kbps, 1x AAC, 1x AC3: 1,360 MB
• All@1500kbps, 2x AAC, 2x AC3: 1,620 MB
• Anamorphic @ 2500: 2,340 MB
• Anamorphic @ 5000: 4,000 MB


OK so conclusions. Looks like the devices can handle much more than I thought they could. I've done tests before and it used to be I couldn't get the anamorphic or the higher bitrate files to play on my iPhone. So it looks like I can start upping the quality of my rips and not worry about compatibility. On the downside, my previous rips now feel old and outdated lol.

The settings I'll probably use on movies from now on are the Anamorphic Strict setting for the highest resolution possible and 2500kbps video. I did always feel 1500 was lacking clarity on the Apple TV so it's nice to be able to increase that. 5000kbps seems like over kill to me since I can't really notice a difference between that and 2500kbps. It's also pushing the 4GB file limit people seem to run into trouble with. I'll leave the 5000+AC3 for my HD rips, those can really benefit from it.

Still not sure about audio since it only benefits the Apple TV. The size jump is also quite high for the high quality AC3 tracks. I'd rather have 2 different languages than the 5.1 surround sound with the added size penalty. But that's just personal choice.

The results are not conclusive as I have yet to try a full screen DVD and one of those ultra widescreen DVDs, but given the iPhone/iPod outperformed, I think I'll find similar results with those.

5.0 - Credits
cowm007: Writing this guide
Kikobarbada: Design

[zainjetha]

How is the normal preset? Does it look good on all devices...

First off all im going to try rip The Simpsons Movie in iPod High Resolution, sync it to the three... then i might try NORMAL, and finally iPod touch/iPhone...

I will get this perfect....

[RumMunkey]

This would all be so much easier if Handbrake supported exporting your presets to some sort of a file. We could all then share our settings easily by passing them around.

[dynaflash]

Originally Posted by zainjetha

How is the normal preset? Does it look good on all devices...

Normal uses cabac which makes it iPod/iPhone incompatible. iPods require that cabac be off in the advanced panel. iF it worked on the iPod and looked better than the iPod Hi rez preset. well then it would be the iPod hi rez preset

[Fromasta Flex]

So I checked out the activity window during an encode with these settings and noticed hundreds upon hundreds of messages saying "[warning]: VBV underflow." Is this a bad thing? It does say warning...

EDIT: I don't know anything about this but could this vbv thing be related to the blips I keep seeing in all of my encodes? Has anyone actually watched one of their encodes with these settings all the way through? Every single one of the movies I do with these settings have various little digital "screw ups" (like how HDTV looks when it loses a signal for a sec) that are less than a second long every once in a while throughout playback...

ANOTHER EDIT: So for a test I tried re-encoding a movie but this time leaving the vbvmaxrate at 1500 and the bufsize at 2000, (how it is originally), and now those blips I was talking about are gone...I don't know anything about this, but judging based on testing I guess I'll just leave the vbv settings as is unless I notice something weird with the encode, unless anyone has any other ideas.

[Maynerd]

I've tried ripping The Last Emperor directors cut 218 Minutes long via handbrake using the default apple tv settings with 2500bit rate. Handbrake keeps blowing up on me. The file is over 4gb in size and when it is in the middle of finishing the file it breaks. Is there some sort of 4GB limitation on Mac formatted drives? I was able to lower the bit rate and it worked with a size of about 3.7 GB.

[MikieMikie]

Originally Posted by Maynerd

I've tried ripping The Last Emperor directors cut 218 Minutes long via handbrake using the default apple tv settings with 2500bit rate. Handbrake keeps blowing up on me. The file is over 4gb in size and when it is in the middle of finishing the file it breaks. Is there some sort of 4GB limitation on Mac formatted drives? I was able to lower the bit rate and it worked with a size of about 3.7 GB.

Make sure the 64bit checkbox is checked. There was a 4GB limit (32 bits).

[Maynerd]

Originally Posted by MikieMikie

Make sure the 64bit checkbox is checked. There was a 4GB limit (32 bits).

AHH..I see Thanks!

[Fromasta Flex]

Alright, this is getting annoying. When I rip with a bitrate of 2500 or 2000 my 60gb ipod video skips frames during playback. If I then change the vbv settings to fix that, strange pixelation blips occur in the video. I read that the vbv settings don't work with 2-pass, is this true? If so, that's another annoying thing to add to the list because I notice some different pixelation problems when I don't do 2-pass. It seems I can't fix one problem without developing another!!

Looks like it's back to the standard 2-pass iPod High-Rez setting for me...

[dynaflash]

Originally Posted by Fromasta Flex

So I checked out the activity window during an encode with these settings and noticed hundreds upon hundreds of messages saying "[warning]: VBV underflow." Is this a bad thing? It does say warning...

The vbv underflow messages you are seeing means that the x264 video encoder cannot constrain the bitrate within your requested vbv.

Originally Posted by Fromasta Flex

EDIT: I don't know anything about this but could this vbv thing be related to the blips I keep seeing in all of my encodes? Has anyone actually watched one of their encodes with these settings all the way through? Every single one of the movies I do with these settings have various little digital "screw ups" (like how HDTV looks when it loses a signal for a sec) that are less than a second long every once in a while throughout playback...

Yes, its your vbv settings causing that momentary pixelation at scene changes.

Originally Posted by Fromasta Flex

ANOTHER EDIT: So for a test I tried re-encoding a movie but this time leaving the vbvmaxrate at 1500 and the bufsize at 2000, (how it is originally), and now those blips I was talking about are gone...I don't know anything about this, but judging based on testing I guess I'll just leave the vbv settings as is unless I notice something weird with the encode, unless anyone has any other ideas.

Depending on the abr you specified, if the vbv-maxrate is lower than the abr, x264 just ignores your vbv settings (in which case you will not get those pixelations at scene changes, but you risk dropped frames from momentary bitrate spikes).

If your vbv settings are ignored (or you don't set any) and you try to use 2500 abr, you may get stuttering on a 5G or 5.5G iPod as local bitrates can spike way beyond what that version of iPod can handle depending on your source and the complexity of the scene.

What abr and vbv settings are you trying to use on your 60GB iPod ? Note: I have both the atv and a 5G iPod and still use the stock iPod hi Rez preset. Yes, I can bump it up some to around 2000 abr, but tbh its safer imho to just use the iPod hi rez preset.

[Fromasta Flex]

Originally Posted by dynaflash

The vbv underflow messages you are seeing means that the x264 video encoder cannot constrain the bitrate within your requested vbv.

Yes, its your vbv settings causing that momentary pixelation at scene changes.


Depending on the abr you specified, if the vbv-maxrate is lower than the abr, x264 just ignores your vbv settings (in which case you will not get those pixelations at scene changes, but you risk dropped frames from momentary bitrate spikes).

If your vbv settings are ignored (or you don't set any) and you try to use 2500 abr, you may get stuttering on a 5G or 5.5G iPod as local bitrates can spike way beyond what that version of iPod can handle depending on your source and the complexity of the scene.

What abr and vbv settings are you trying to use on your 60GB iPod ? Note: I have both the atv and a 5G iPod and still use the stock iPod hi Rez preset. Yes, I can bump it up some to around 2000 abr, but tbh its safer imho to just use the iPod hi rez preset.

Following directions I found on this thread for my 60gb iPod Video, I set my abr to 2500 and change the text in advanced to vbv-maxrate=2500:vbv-bufsize=2000 under advanced. I then also choose 2-pass and change the picture to loose anamorphic with a width of 640. The result plays on my iPod, but there are often pixelation problems at scene changes. If I keep vbv-maxrate at 1500 then those pixelations go away, but my iPod stutters like crazy, like you said. I'm kind of picky about quality because I mainly watch movies on my 22 inch monitor, but also play on a tv using the iPod, so the pixelation really bothers me. For the same reasons I wish I could have higher bitrate than the high-rez preset offers, but I guess I have no choice because of the pixelation.

Is the pixelation something that could be fixed in an update or is it just necessary to avoid the spikes? If the pixelation thing didn't happen I'd be one happy camper, but I guess I'm going back to the hi-rez preset for now. Maybe I'm the only one who is bothered by the pixelation!

[dynaflash]

To be specific its an issue with the x264 rate control system. Just for kicks try a vbv-maxrate of 3000 (leave the bufsize alone) with your 2500 abr encode and see if that helps. As well, try it at 2500 using just one pass. the 2 pass vbv capabilities HB is using are a touch experimental and do not even exist yet in the x264 svn.

In other words, try those two methods and see if you get better results. Basically you are trying to squeeze every ounce of quality out of a limited playback device. So some trial and error is inevitable.

[Fromasta Flex]

Originally Posted by dynaflash

To be specific its an issue with the x264 rate control system. Just for kicks try a vbv-maxrate of 3000 (leave the bufsize alone) with your 2500 abr encode and see if that helps. As well, try it at 2500 using just one pass. the 2 pass vbv capabilities HB is using are a touch experimental and do not even exist yet in the x264 svn.

In other words, try those two methods and see if you get better results. Basically you are trying to squeeze every ounce of quality out of a limited playback device. So some trial and error is inevitable.

Well, I did the same settings but with a vbv-maxrate of 3000 and so far so good, I haven't noticed the pixelation and my iPod has yet to skip. I guess the problem is solved, but I'm sure I'll probably have to do some trial and error on every encode. Is there any reason why I should attempt at finding a lower vbv-maxrate that works (like between 2500 and 3000)? Is there any disadvantage at having the vbv-maxrate that high? Thanks for the help, by the way.

[dynaflash]

Originally Posted by Fromasta Flex

Is there any reason why I should attempt at finding a lower vbv-maxrate that works (like between 2500 and 3000)? Is there any disadvantage at having the vbv-maxrate that high?

Well, ideally you want to try to get away with it as high as you can. Having said that the higher you go the closer you are getting to hitting the 5g ipods bitrate spike limit. To make matters even more confusing, it will only rear its ugly head on very complex scenes. Some movies might work fine with no vbv settings applied whatsoever. So use a source where you have seen frame drop before so you have a constant. I have a few benchmark movies I use to test. The worse I have seen it Harry Potter Order of the Phoenix. The frame dropping happens right at the beginning during the first chapter. If the iPod doesnt drop frames there, its not likely to and you have found the sweet spot.

I would keep working with the settings that are working well for you for now.