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Old Feb 24, 2008, 09:24 AM   #1
Dingo Dave 69
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Got my AppleTV...my thoughts

I have now had my AppleTV for 1 week. After investigating and asking questions about it on this forum I thought I would post my opinion on it.

Up until a month or so ago, I thought AppleTV was only a way to let you listen to podcasts and your itunes music on a seperate television. This did not really appeal to me enough to warrant buying one. I already had my ipod and speakers in my lounge so didn't see the need to have it on my TV. This forum changed my mind about buying one. I never used itunes before for movies or TV programmes. When I discovered you could use AppleTV to store all your movies and be able to watch them without bothering going and finding the disc etc I knew I had to have one. I have hundreds of DVD's and it is so convenient being able to pick browse and watch something without having to go looking for the discs.

I feel that this product is very undersold by Apple. Most of my friends don't seem to know much about it compared to other Apple products and when I explained to them you could store all your films and stream them nearly all of them were quite impressed. Having the ability to browse the itunes store and also browse your photos is nice but again these factors would not have made me go out and buy one.

Living in the UK is so far definitely a disadvantage compared to the states though when you look at the american store. I am not keen on starting to buy blu-ray movies and i would like to have the option to rent or download HD movies on my appleTV but again this is not yet available in the UK. Once this has launched I hope the product will fulfil my need of getting new content.

I have had my AppleTV for a week and already I can see my friends getting interested in buying one. The only thing I can see putting them off is the whole ripping, running through metaX and handbrake to get the finished film on your AppleTV. I don't think the majority of "Normal" consumers would have the effort to do this. It has taken me quite a lot of time finding out how to do it myself, something which I feel Apple should have helped more with.

In a perfect world I would like itunes to add DVD's to my itunes library in the correct format just like it does with audio CD's, I am surprised Apple have not implemented this yet.

Anyway I am glad I got the device and would recommend it to others. If any potential buyers have any questions I am willing to help post any comments or answers you may be looking for.
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Old Feb 24, 2008, 09:54 AM   #2
MikieMikie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingo Dave 69 View Post
I have now had my AppleTV for 1 week. After investigating and asking questions about it on this forum I thought I would post my opinion on it.
Welcome to the fold.

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I have had my AppleTV for a week and already I can see my friends getting interested in buying one. The only thing I can see putting them off is the whole ripping, running through metaX and handbrake to get the finished film on your AppleTV. I don't think the majority of "Normal" consumers would have the effort to do this. It has taken me quite a lot of time finding out how to do it myself, something which I feel Apple should have helped more with.

In a perfect world I would like itunes to add DVD's to my itunes library in the correct format just like it does with audio CD's, I am surprised Apple have not implemented this yet.
Yes well, this is the crux of the problem, and why Steve Jobs referred to Apple TV as a 'hobby" before the launch of version 2.

Apple cannot and will not help you break the law -- they would be abandoned by the movie studios and so would lose access to all of the itunes music store content.

Ripping and encoding DVDs is, unfortunately, against the law despite your and my intentions. I make digital copies of my own purchased DVDs, and then sync/stream them with my Apple TV, but that's not something Apple can come out and help us with. At best, they look the other way.

I am happy breaking this law, so don't get me wrong -- I am not judging anyone here. I just brought it up so you could see that there is no way Apple or any large corporation could make it easier for us to rip and encode.
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Old Feb 24, 2008, 10:19 AM   #3
Dingo Dave 69
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Thanks for the reply

Can you ( or someone else please explain ) why is it ok for Apple to have the feature in itunes to find CD information and rip the CD format to something else but not do the same for movies? It is basically the same thing is it not?
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Old Feb 24, 2008, 10:25 AM   #4
papagrande
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Originally Posted by Dingo Dave 69 View Post
Thanks for the reply

Can you ( or someone else please explain ) why is it ok for Apple to have the feature in itunes to find CD information and rip the CD format to something else but not do the same for movies? It is basically the same thing is it not?
Under the law it is not the same thing. I am not a lawyer that practices in that field, but I believe the law changed for cds but the similar law on dvds has not changed. So if you own a cd, you can legally rip it. Not so for dvd.
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Old Feb 24, 2008, 10:56 AM   #5
trip1ex
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I think there was a ruling in the US which concluded circumventing DVD copy protection was illegal or something like that. There's no copy protection on cds.

My view on ATV is that it's slick and yet doesn't really do anything I can't do now. IT's also more expensive to rent DVDs through it than the options I have available to me today.

Now if I had a big DVD collection then maybe I would get one. But that would also mean getting a 500gb hard drive or larger to store the movies on and if I went to the trouble of ripping a large DVD collection I wouldn't want to do it again if a hard drive failed so I would need a second 500gb hd to back the movies up too.
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Old Feb 24, 2008, 12:21 PM   #6
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Well the latest experiment is that movie studios will be putting digital versions ready for iTunes on the discs themselves.
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Old Feb 24, 2008, 12:57 PM   #7
BOSS10L
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Well the latest experiment is that movie studios will be putting digital versions ready for iTunes on the discs themselves.
That's great, it's about time. Problem is, what about the rest of us suckers
who have legally purchased DVDs since the beginning.
IMHO, they won't be stopping piracy, and only serve to piss off
those of us who are trying to do the right thing.
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Old Feb 24, 2008, 01:57 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by BOSS10L View Post
That's great, it's about time. Problem is, what about the rest of us suckers
who have legally purchased DVDs since the beginning.
IMHO, they won't be stopping piracy, and only serve to piss off
those of us who are trying to do the right thing.
I will buy new DVD's if they have iTunes ready digital versions on them. I'll use the digital version for my TV.

I will rip whatever DVD's I already own, and use them for my TV.

I will also rent new questionable movies before I buy them. I have a LOT of DVD's that I paid $19.99 for that flat out suck. I'd MUCH rather weed them out by renting for $3.99/4.99 and saving the purchase price.

If any of THAT is against the law, then maybe we should forget the murderers and drug dealers and concentrate on anyone looking for a wireless way to watch their movies in the comfort of their own bedroom. Jeez....
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Old Feb 24, 2008, 02:05 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by papagrande View Post
Under the law it is not the same thing. I am not a lawyer that practices in that field, but I believe the law changed for cds but the similar law on dvds has not changed. So if you own a cd, you can legally rip it. Not so for dvd.
papa
One US law says you have the right to make copies of any media you legally possess. Another law says you cannot break DVD encryption. It's a tricky legal issue.
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Old Feb 24, 2008, 02:57 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingo Dave 69 View Post
Thanks for the reply
Can you ( or someone else please explain ) why is it ok for Apple to have the feature in itunes to find CD information and rip the CD format to something else but not do the same for movies? It is basically the same thing is it not?
I always thought a good way for Apple to do something like this would be to show you how easy it is to add all your DVDs to the TV... the ones you've been creating over the years in iDVD (since these DVDs are not encrypted) and give a nice interface for tagging etc. Then the iTunes software won't be breaking the DVDs' encryption.
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Old Feb 24, 2008, 05:11 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papagrande View Post
Under the law it is not the same thing. I am not a lawyer that practices in that field, but I believe the law changed for cds but the similar law on dvds has not changed. So if you own a cd, you can legally rip it. Not so for dvd.
papa
This has to do with the differences in the formats on CD and DVD media.

CD Audio (16-bit Linear PCM) is not copy protected. Therefore, personal backups do not fall under 17 USC 12 (Digital Millennium Copyright Act) which makes it illegal to circumvent copy protection schema. DVD's do have an inherent copy protection schema, CSS. One must break this copy protection to back up a DVD and therefore it is illegal.

Apple would not, as has been previously stated, get the support of the studios to provide content for AppleTV if they provided a means for breaking said encryption. Furthermore, they could face civil and criminal penalties for creating software that does so. I am not sure of the legal loopholes by which the creators of Handbrake and Visual Hub get around this... but Apple is a large company with large coffers, and would not easily escape such litigation.

Apple is in a much better position by staying out of that legal morass and instead focusing their resources on solutions that offer greater overall convenience than their illegal alternatives. By one token you may consider P2P services convenient but even they require more technical knowledge than simply browsing a visual menu on a TV an pressing a button to rent content that can be played straight through to your home theater... rather than the myriad gyrations you have to go through just to watch P2P content on your PC, or to set up a Media Center to stream it to your TV.

By focusing in this space, Apple is providing a much greater service to the average consumer at the cost of alienating what is still, by and large, a small niche of users. That niche appears big to those of us who browse these forums. However, tech forums like this are not a good representation of the opinions of the general population.
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Last edited by Avatar74; Feb 24, 2008 at 05:19 PM.
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Old Feb 24, 2008, 06:05 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by live4ever View Post
I always thought a good way for Apple to do something like this would be to show you how easy it is to add all your DVDs to the TV... the ones you've been creating over the years in iDVD (since these DVDs are not encrypted) and give a nice interface for tagging etc. Then the iTunes software won't be breaking the DVDs' encryption.
I like that idea
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Old Feb 25, 2008, 08:24 PM   #13
hotshotharry
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LOL i just want to let you guys know that if for some reason ( your reset your apple tv to restore the original firware because it is not syncing with your comp) you will loose everything including purchased tv programs !!!

just keep that in mind, !
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