DDR2 800 in penryn Macbook Pros?

wolfattack · Mar 3, 2008, 10:50 PM

I was just wondering if the new macbook pro's will take DDR800 ram? Or does it max out at 667 still?

valvehead · 11:01 PM

The chipset is limited to DDR2-667. DDR2-800 RAM should work, but it won't run faster.

wolfattack · Mar 3, 2008, 11:07 PM

cool, thanks for the help

DocSmitty · Mar 3, 2008, 11:09 PM

DDR2 800 worked in previous revision MBPs just fine. So, that's what I bought for my Penryn. For whatever reason, it does NOT work in Penryn MBP. Be warned!!! (it's not just bad ram, others have had this issue)

physicistjedi · Mar 4, 2008, 12:55 AM

It didn't work for me either. Returning my PC2 6400 sticks tomorrow

Stridder44 · Mar 4, 2008, 12:57 AM

Mods, we really need a MacBook Pro RAM sticky or something.

EDIT: Yeah, nevermind, I see it at the top.

spaceballl · Mar 4, 2008, 01:28 AM

Some of the info on this thread is incorrect.

Fact: DDR2 800mhz RAM WILL work in a DDR2 667mhz slot JUST FINE. They are pin compatible. The only difference is that the DDR2 800 RAM is tested and rated for a higher speed. The RAM speed in a computer is determined by the motherboard chipset though, not the RAM. So running it at 667mhz is perfectly fine. (i.e. driving a car rated for 70mph at 60mph is fine. But if your car is only tested to go 70mph, best not run it at 80!)

More Important Fact: There are many different RAM settings such as CAS latency, timing delays, etc that are also tested and spec'd, but most retailers don't advertise that stuff unless you look closely and dig for it. And even if you find it, Apple doesn't really publicly state what memory specs are needed for their laptops in this regard as they'd rather just sell you the memory themselves.

Most Important Fact: Apple computers are historically very finicky about which memory they like and which they don't. If you go to an online store with a good reputation in the mac community, you might pay a bit more than if you went to the cheapest place on pricewatch/pricegrabber/ebay, but you usually get some kind of guarantee. This is the best way, imho, to protect yourself and get good memory.

Hope that advice is useful for some out there!

rezonat0r · Mar 4, 2008, 01:37 AM

Plenty of people have DDR2-800 memory working fine. Anytime you add memory I would highly recommend running a real memory diagnostic. Something like memtest86 which is included on the Ultimate Boot CD.

CanadaRAM · Mar 4, 2008, 01:48 AM

The problem is that there is no advantage at all to installing DDR2-800, AND if the SPDs are not written correctly on the RAM, it won't downshift to 667 properly, so there will be problems. We are getting reports that 800s that work in the SR MBP do not work in the Penryn. The SPD setings control the RAM module's identity, and what speeds, voltages and latencies it will work at.

In the past, the problem has come up because a new model (or new firmware rev) enforces the standards more strictly, and RAM that is slightly off-standard gets gonged.

DocSmitty · Mar 4, 2008, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spaceballl

Some of the info on this thread is incorrect.

Fact: DDR2 800mhz RAM WILL work in a DDR2 667mhz slot JUST FINE. They are pin compatible. The only difference is that the DDR2 800 RAM is tested and rated for a higher speed. The RAM speed in a computer is determined by the motherboard chipset though, not the RAM. So running it at 667mhz is perfectly fine. (i.e. driving a car rated for 70mph at 60mph is fine. But if your car is only tested to go 70mph, best not run it at 80!)

Yes, some of the info in this thread IS incorrect

Sadly, both physicistjedi and I have tried our pc2-6400 RAM and it does not work. I'm willing to believe CanadaRAM's explanation of why, as I have never dived that deeply into RAM firmware.

The TESTED FACTS are:

PC2-6400 WORKED in Merom SR MBPs
PC2-6400 DOES NOT WORK in Penryn SR MBPs.

I understand that you are advising people to buy RAM guaranteed to work with their Mac, and I agree. Just wanted to state that in this case, 667 and 800 are not compatible.

spaceballl · Mar 4, 2008, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocSmitty

The TESTED FACTS are:

PC2-6400 WORKED in Merom SR MBPs
PC2-6400 DOES NOT WORK in Penryn SR MBPs.

I understand that you are advising people to buy RAM guaranteed to work with their Mac, and I agree. Just wanted to state that in this case, 667 and 800 are not compatible.

Once again, please see my second point about how there are things OTHER than just the rated memory speeds that affect compatibility. I have no problem believing that your testing yielded the results that you posted - but this is not because of the fact that it is ddr2 800.

spaceballl · Mar 4, 2008, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanadaRAM

and RAM that is slightly off-standard gets gonged.

yup - that's why just pay like 5 to 10 percent more and grab some RAM from a place that has good results in the mac community. I've been burned by trying to save a few bucks by getting cheap RAM elsewhere and I def regretted that.

rezonat0r · Mar 4, 2008, 12:40 PM

Can people please post the actual specs of the memory that doesn't work in terms of latency (e.g 2-2-2-6 or 3-3-3-8 or 4-4-4-12). The problem is likely from a mismatched pair than from anything else. I don't have a Penryn MBP yet, but if I did I would run memtest86 and post the memory specs it reports for the stock memory here.

Apple has possibly begun using a slightly different spec'd memory (hopefully higher than lower

) in the Penryn models. It has already been proven that a mismatched memory pair can affect performance, and a certain amount of mismatched-ness apparently now causes real problems.

So again please post actual specs of the memory that comes with Penryn systems, and the specs of memory that does not work alongside the stock module.

DocSmitty · Mar 4, 2008, 03:31 PM

It's not an issue of running the new ram along side a stock module - the people I've seen with pc2-6400 bought matched pairs. For further info, the ones I had that did not work were 5-5-5-15, which is pretty much the standard currently.

All of their timing and latency specs matched up - I believe it's the inability of the logic board to downclock it that is causing problems.

spaceballl · Mar 4, 2008, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocSmitty

I believe it's the inability of the logic board to downclock it that is causing problems.

That's incorrect. There's no "downlocking." The logic board runs memory at 667 mhz, regardless of what the memory is spec'd for.

DocSmitty · Mar 4, 2008, 03:38 PM

Then explain why the ram works just fine in a pre-penryn mbp and not in a penryn mbp? It's clearly some change in the laptop itself, not the RAM.

Edit: I went to the mfg's site before school and viewed the data sheets on the RAM. the voltage, cas timing, etc, all identical. I'll try to post links.

spaceballl · Mar 4, 2008, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocSmitty

Then explain why the ram works just fine in a pre-penryn mbp and not in a penryn mbp? It's clearly some change in the laptop itself, not the RAM.

Edit: I went to the mfg's site before school and viewed the data sheets on the RAM. the voltage, cas timing, etc, all identical. I'll try to post links.

Most likely because the newer laptop run a different CAS/tRCD/tRPD/tRAS setting that your memory SODIMM can't handle. Has nothing to do w/ the fact that it's DDR2 800. Apple is pretty mysterious about what their timings settings are or when they decide to change them. moral of the story: just get RAM from a seller that guarantees it to work in the mac.

rezonat0r · Mar 4, 2008, 04:18 PM

What is the latency of the stock Apple memory that comes with Penryns?

Mar 3, 2008, 10:50 PM	#1
wolfattack macrumors member Join Date: Feb 2008	DDR2 800 in penryn Macbook Pros? I was just wondering if the new macbook pro's will take DDR800 ram? Or does it max out at 667 still?

Mar 3, 2008, 10:59 PM	#2
valvehead macrumors regular Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: USA	The chipset is limited to DDR2-667. DDR2-800 RAM should work, but it won't run faster. __________________ MBP \| 15" matte \| 2.5GHz Penryn/Crestline \| 2GB \| 200GB 7200 \| OS X 10.5.8 \| XP Pro SP3 \| Win7 x64 RC iPod \| 4G Monochrome \| 40GB Last edited by valvehead : Mar 3, 2008 at 11:01 PM. Reason: mistake

Mar 4, 2008, 12:57 AM	#6
Stridder44 macrumors 68040 Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: California	Mods, we really need a MacBook Pro RAM sticky or something. EDIT: Yeah, nevermind, I see it at the top. __________________ The Un-Funny Truth About Scientology (Warning: Graphic images) MacBook Pro 15.4"/2.5 GHz/250GB/4GB RAM iMac G4 17"/800 Mhz/80GB/512GB RAM

Mar 4, 2008, 01:48 AM	#9
CanadaRAM Contributor Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: On the Left Coast - Victoria BC Canada	The problem is that there is no advantage at all to installing DDR2-800, AND if the SPDs are not written correctly on the RAM, it won't downshift to 667 properly, so there will be problems. We are getting reports that 800s that work in the SR MBP do not work in the Penryn. The SPD setings control the RAM module's identity, and what speeds, voltages and latencies it will work at. In the past, the problem has come up because a new model (or new firmware rev) enforces the standards more strictly, and RAM that is slightly off-standard gets gonged. __________________ Expert Ex = former, no longer. Spurt = a leak, esp. when caused by water pressure. Expert = a has-been drip under pressure.

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Mar 3, 2008, 11:07 PM	#3
wolfattack Thread Starter macrumors member Join Date: Feb 2008	cool, thanks for the help

Mar 3, 2008, 11:09 PM	#4
DocSmitty macrumors regular Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Lincoln, NE	DDR2 800 worked in previous revision MBPs just fine. So, that's what I bought for my Penryn. For whatever reason, it does NOT work in Penryn MBP. Be warned!!! (it's not just bad ram, others have had this issue)

Mar 4, 2008, 12:55 AM	#5
physicistjedi macrumors newbie Join Date: Jan 2007	It didn't work for me either. Returning my PC2 6400 sticks tomorrow

Mar 4, 2008, 01:28 AM	#7
spaceballl macrumors 68000 Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Silicon Valley	Some of the info on this thread is incorrect. Fact: DDR2 800mhz RAM WILL work in a DDR2 667mhz slot JUST FINE. They are pin compatible. The only difference is that the DDR2 800 RAM is tested and rated for a higher speed. The RAM speed in a computer is determined by the motherboard chipset though, not the RAM. So running it at 667mhz is perfectly fine. (i.e. driving a car rated for 70mph at 60mph is fine. But if your car is only tested to go 70mph, best not run it at 80!) More Important Fact: There are many different RAM settings such as CAS latency, timing delays, etc that are also tested and spec'd, but most retailers don't advertise that stuff unless you look closely and dig for it. And even if you find it, Apple doesn't really publicly state what memory specs are needed for their laptops in this regard as they'd rather just sell you the memory themselves. Most Important Fact: Apple computers are historically very finicky about which memory they like and which they don't. If you go to an online store with a good reputation in the mac community, you might pay a bit more than if you went to the cheapest place on pricewatch/pricegrabber/ebay, but you usually get some kind of guarantee. This is the best way, imho, to protect yourself and get good memory. Hope that advice is useful for some out there!

Mar 4, 2008, 01:37 AM	#8
rezonat0r macrumors 6502 Join Date: Nov 2007	Plenty of people have DDR2-800 memory working fine. Anytime you add memory I would highly recommend running a real memory diagnostic. Something like memtest86 which is included on the Ultimate Boot CD.

Mar 4, 2008, 12:40 PM	#13
rezonat0r macrumors 6502 Join Date: Nov 2007	Can people please post the actual specs of the memory that doesn't work in terms of latency (e.g 2-2-2-6 or 3-3-3-8 or 4-4-4-12). The problem is likely from a mismatched pair than from anything else. I don't have a Penryn MBP yet, but if I did I would run memtest86 and post the memory specs it reports for the stock memory here. Apple has possibly begun using a slightly different spec'd memory (hopefully higher than lower ) in the Penryn models. It has already been proven that a mismatched memory pair can affect performance, and a certain amount of mismatched-ness apparently now causes real problems. So again please post actual specs of the memory that comes with Penryn systems, and the specs of memory that does not work alongside the stock module.

Mar 4, 2008, 03:31 PM	#14
DocSmitty macrumors regular Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Lincoln, NE	It's not an issue of running the new ram along side a stock module - the people I've seen with pc2-6400 bought matched pairs. For further info, the ones I had that did not work were 5-5-5-15, which is pretty much the standard currently. All of their timing and latency specs matched up - I believe it's the inability of the logic board to downclock it that is causing problems.

Mar 4, 2008, 03:38 PM	#16
DocSmitty macrumors regular Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Lincoln, NE	Then explain why the ram works just fine in a pre-penryn mbp and not in a penryn mbp? It's clearly some change in the laptop itself, not the RAM. Edit: I went to the mfg's site before school and viewed the data sheets on the RAM. the voltage, cas timing, etc, all identical. I'll try to post links.

Mar 4, 2008, 04:18 PM	#18
rezonat0r macrumors 6502 Join Date: Nov 2007	What is the latency of the stock Apple memory that comes with Penryns?