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Old Mar 4, 2008, 11:39 PM   #1
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Mac switch revisited: An enterprise PC shop's move to Apple...




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Link: Mac switch revisited: An enterprise PC shop's move to Apple isn't as easy as expected
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Old Mar 5, 2008, 12:49 AM   #2
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Some people are just so afraid of change that this story should be shown to many companies where change, though it may feel odd at first, it still helps even where most of us don't see it. Reminds me when the place I use to work at brought in computers for the workers on the floor to use in the print department and else where on the floor. Everyone that never thought of using a PC nor wanted to use one was given training, overtime classes and almost anything you could think of to make it "easy to use a PC" and still some waved the cost factor flag in the air. Those folks worried it would affect the yearly raise and so on but never once said thank you for teaching us that a computer can be a good thing A lot of those people have been able to get better jobs because of this little thing called useful technology.
I'm glad to see that it happens everywhere and a large part of "good" comes out of situations such as this and others we haven't heard of…go and way to go on the management's part for going the extra mile with it's people!
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Old Mar 5, 2008, 01:02 AM   #3
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Anybody else perturbed by the supposed death threat?
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Old Mar 5, 2008, 01:13 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by bluebomberman View Post
Anybody else perturbed by the supposed death threat?
Some people obviously feel strongly about <cough> Windows <cough>
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Old Mar 5, 2008, 04:01 AM   #5
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Microsoft always knew the money was in software. It's so funny how stupid people are, thinking how cheap PCs are. That may be true for a guy who steals software, but it's not if you have to sell your children to pay licensing fees for Microsoft Active Directory/Exchange/etc. Bullcrap. My university switched our email to Exchange. I switched to GMail.
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Old Mar 5, 2008, 10:12 AM   #6
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The 'problems' raised in the article:

1) A lot of people (staff and customers) couldn't see how it could be cheaper to buy new Macs that did more and did it better, until they were shown the figures...

2) A few people fear any change, even if it is demonstrably for the good.

If that is the sum total of 'problems' that this company have encountered in a phased transfer from PCs and MS back office apps to Macs, then surely the article can't have the right title?

Or am I missing something?
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Old Mar 5, 2008, 11:27 AM   #7
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Credit where credit is due ....

It's true that the cost of a Windows PC is *far* greater than the initial price tag on one. The company I work at easily spends more than the cost of the system itself on the software titles each one runs. But this is also true for Mac users. Regardless of platform, if you pirate all your software, your "computer experience" is a lot cheaper than it's legally supposed to be.

Apple, like Microsoft, knows there's money in software. Look at the price tag on something like Final Cut Studio if you don't believe that!

As much as I dislike most Microsoft products, I'm forced to admit that one thing they offer of real value is their Exchange server product. Even Apple "piggybacks" on the success of Exchange. (Support for it on the iPhone is one of their promised, upcoming feature enhancements - and make no mistake. That WILL launch quite a few new iPhone sales to corporate customers.)

Exchange is FAR from ideal, but at the same time, its cost is WELL justified, when you consider the importance of email, centralized contact list management, group calendars and appointment/meeting scheduling, etc. in today's companies. When you divide its total cost by individual employee, it's adding a lot of "bang" for the buck, really.

It'd be *awesome* if Apple would try to tackle this area of software some day, building a better alternative to Exchange. Certainly, it COULD be done. Practically everyone administering Exchange Server is familiar with some of its downsides, like no integrated spam or virus filtering - and issues doing backups and restores at the individual mailbox level. (It requires expensive add-ons to already costly backup products just to handle Exchange's database.) But right now, it's one of FEW options that can get the job done, and most people seem to prefer it to IBM's Notes product.


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Originally Posted by shadowfax View Post
Microsoft always knew the money was in software. It's so funny how stupid people are, thinking how cheap PCs are. That may be true for a guy who steals software, but it's not if you have to sell your children to pay licensing fees for Microsoft Active Directory/Exchange/etc. Bullcrap. My university switched our email to Exchange. I switched to GMail.
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Old Mar 5, 2008, 01:12 PM   #8
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They do, it's called Mac OS X Server 10.5.. I would argue the email system is better then exchange, plus it's open standards based unlike M$.. Microsoft wants you to get into software lock and make sure you only buy their solutions to get everything working..

Quote:
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It'd be *awesome* if Apple would try to tackle this area of software some day, building a better alternative to Exchange. Certainly, it COULD be done. Practically everyone administering Exchange Server is familiar with some of its downsides, like no integrated spam or virus filtering - and issues doing backups and restores at the individual mailbox level. (It requires expensive add-ons to already costly backup products just to handle Exchange's database.) But right now, it's one of FEW options that can get the job done, and most people seem to prefer it to IBM's Notes product.
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Old Mar 5, 2008, 01:28 PM   #9
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I need to do some research on OS X Server and its email capabilities.

My company hosts 3,500+ email accounts on Lotus Notes that they want moved to another platform (for license cost reasons).

We were thinking Linux + postfix + Squirrelmail, but OS X Server's easier to manage, that'd be great.
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Old Mar 5, 2008, 04:37 PM   #10
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I'll have to look into this further, too....

I'm not sure how knowledgeable you are on all of this .... Is this something you've actually implemented for a business, or are you just going by what you've read OS X Server 10.5 is supposed to be capable of, according to technical notes/marketing info/etc. ?

The problem I've traditionally seen with "open standards based" mail/scheduling is that it's always led to a buggy, only partially-functional experience. I used to work for a very small on-site computer service company, for example, who wanted to get email/calendar/scheduling set up on a tight budget. We looked at free solutions like Mozilla, but found they were constantly crashing or losing data. (EG. Our receptionist would schedule a few appointments, maybe re-schedule a few and cancel one, and next thing you know - one or two would be completely missing that used to be there.)

It seems like although the standards are defined, the software that implements those "open standards" is usually only half-baked. (I'd say Apple might be the lone exception to this right now, if they're implementing all of this in their commercial offerings -- but that still makes one wonder which client you'd use on the Windows side to communicate with these "open standards" on an OS X Server?)

If you're required to do a wholesale switch to OS X on the workstations to make this work properly/well - then you have just as much "vendor lock-in" as you do with the Microsoft Exchange solution, no?


Quote:
Originally Posted by telegix View Post
They do, it's called Mac OS X Server 10.5.. I would argue the email system is better then exchange, plus it's open standards based unlike M$.. Microsoft wants you to get into software lock and make sure you only buy their solutions to get everything working..
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Old Mar 5, 2008, 08:54 PM   #11
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I would have to wait until all the old IT managers die out before we could do something like this.

However we already have declared Windows systems for web applications persona non grata. Special permission is required to create a project for them (we have over 300 Internet applications running in about 3000 server farms. Mostly java based so they can move to anything, and all .NET is being decommission in a few years.

However the desktop is the big problem, we have about 90,000 desktops of those about 88,000 are windows.

May take a while for people to realize the kind of savings they would have in licenses and add to that the less need for support and the issue of no current viruses that we need not worry about.

Between software for the systems and windows we can save a truck load of money, but as long as those old fogies are there, they will not take a risk.

Today we have about 70 Macs in the hands of just a few departments.
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