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Old Mar 10, 2008, 12:01 PM   #1
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PC Mag Declares Leopard OS Wars Victor




Category: Mac OS X
Link: PC Mag Declares Leopard OS Wars Victor
Description:: Now that the major OSs all run on Intel chips, the playing field is pretty leveled out. So PC Magazine compared the heavy hitters in an eight-point test. And look who came out on top.

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Old Mar 10, 2008, 12:05 PM   #2
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That Mac users in the crowd have known this all along, but it is really nice to see PC Magazine declare it as well.

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Old Mar 10, 2008, 12:22 PM   #3
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everything that XP beat OSX in was pretty much due to the fact that it has been out for 10(?) years and was (maybe even still is) the standard ...
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Old Mar 10, 2008, 12:29 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Drumjim85 View Post
everything that XP beat OSX in was pretty much due to the fact that it has been out for 10(?) years and was (maybe even still is) the standard ...

That is very true, but I would like to see OS X take a little bit stronger foothold in the gaming arena. More "made for OS X games" would be a plus.
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Old Mar 10, 2008, 12:29 PM   #5
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Wait, they say IE7 is "slick" but Safari is a "bad browser?!" Safari, the more standards-compliant browser? Safari, the browser that IE7 stole most of its interface cues from? Honestly.
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Old Mar 10, 2008, 12:42 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by killmoms View Post
Wait, they say IE7 is "slick" but Safari is a "bad browser?!" Safari, the more standards-compliant browser? Safari, the browser that IE7 stole most of its interface cues from? Honestly.
IE7 is an explosion in a toolbar and button factory. I hate it.
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Old Mar 10, 2008, 12:48 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superleccy View Post
IE7 is an explosion in a toolbar and button factory. I hate it.
SL
Well, I figure the "...and then ****ed everything up" at the end of that sentence was implied. You're right, it's atrocious. Not "slick" at all.
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Old Mar 10, 2008, 12:50 PM   #8
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IE7 does have a phishing filter though.
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Old Mar 10, 2008, 12:52 PM   #9
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Firefox AND Opera open macrumors pages (and gamespy pages, gmail pages, yahoo pages, zillow pages, facebook pages and apple.com pages) faster and more accurately than safari 3.0.4.

I actually prefer safari's interface, but i can't use it for gmail without emptying out the cache every 24 hours, and it is just plain slow with page draws. I don't know what apple means when they say it is the fastest browser...do they mean it's the fastest-opening browser application? maybe, but i only turn on my browsers once per session unless they crash (which safari is prone to doing, i must say), and my sessions are usually a couple of weeks long or more...app boot time is irrelevant. As for IE7, I haven't used it enough to know if it is better than safari, but I am not sure if it could really be that much worse from my own experience. I'd say firefox gives the best over-all browsing experience on the mac, even though i want safari to be best.

i was holding out for safari 3, and then we got it, and it was if anything, worse than 2.
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Old Mar 10, 2008, 12:55 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benpatient View Post
I actually prefer safari's interface, but i can't use it for gmail without emptying out the cache every 24 hours, and it is just plain slow with page draws. I don't know what apple means when they say it is the fastest browser...do they mean it's the fastest-opening browser application? maybe, but i only turn on my browsers once per session unless they crash (which safari is prone to doing, i must say), and my sessions are usually a couple of weeks long or more...app boot time is irrelevant. As for IE7, I haven't used it enough to know if it is better than safari, but I am not sure if it could really be that much worse from my own experience. I'd say firefox gives the best over-all browsing experience on the mac, even though i want safari to be best.

i was holding out for safari 3, and then we got it, and it was if anything, worse than 2.
I've never been disappointed with Safari's speed, personally. 3 is blazing fast. I'm wondering if you have some other problem. In any event, Firefox is a straight-up second class citizen on OS X. It breaks all sorts of OS X interface conventions because it's not a native Cocoa app, and relies on XUL. Loathe it. Even Camino is better.

But to each their own I suppose.
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Old Mar 10, 2008, 01:04 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by benpatient View Post
Firefox AND Opera open macrumors pages (and gamespy pages, gmail pages, yahoo pages, zillow pages, facebook pages and apple.com pages) faster and more accurately than safari 3.0.4.
What? Safari displays them all perfectly, what are you talking about?
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Old Mar 10, 2008, 01:05 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killmoms View Post
Wait, they say IE7 is "slick" but Safari is a "bad browser?!" Safari, the more standards-compliant browser? Safari, the browser that IE7 stole most of its interface cues from? Honestly.
Safari isn't standard at all, at least certainly not much more than IE7. It's true that both work fine with Apple's non-standard crappy webpage while even FF3 craps out - try downloading anything from Apple, pathetic - but that doesn't make any of it more or less standard.
Try Acid2 test - only FF3 passes it, nothing else.
Acid3 came out last week and every browser fails...

Quote:
Originally Posted by killmoms View Post
I've never been disappointed with Safari's speed, personally. 3 is blazing fast. I'm wondering if you have some other problem. In any event, Firefox is a straight-up second class citizen on OS X. It breaks all sorts of OS X interface conventions because it's not a native Cocoa app, and relies on XUL. Loathe it. Even Camino is better.

But to each their own I suppose.
Try FF3 - it mops the floor with *any* browser. And looks far better than Safari, I think.

Last edited by xUKHCx; Mar 11, 2008 at 10:57 PM. Reason: consecutive posts
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Old Mar 10, 2008, 01:12 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kamm View Post
Safari isn't standard at all, at least certainly not much more than IE7. It's true that both work fine with Apple's non-standard crappy webpage while even FF3 craps out - try downloading anything from Apple, pathetic - but that doesn't make any of it more or less standard.
Try Acid2 test - only FF3 passes it, nothing else.
Acid3 came out last week and every browser fails...
Wait. What? Safari passed the acid2 test LONG before any other publically available browser did. Safari 2 passed the acid2 test. Like, a year ago. Check your facts.

EDIT: Here's Safari 2 passing acid2 on my desktop right now.
Attached Thumbnails
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Name:	acid2.png
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Last edited by killmoms; Mar 10, 2008 at 01:16 PM. Reason: added screenshot
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Old Mar 10, 2008, 01:16 PM   #14
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I like Safari and found it resolved most pages correctly but I found that on one of my own pages, it did not display the correct color--it was even a web safe color. A small thing but still--I've not seen that problem with IE, Firefox or Opera. After using Safari about 6 weeks, I decided to go back to using Firefox as my primary browser--mostly because I am very comfortable with how it works.
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Old Mar 10, 2008, 01:18 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killmoms View Post
I've never been disappointed with Safari's speed, personally. 3 is blazing fast. I'm wondering if you have some other problem. In any event, Firefox is a straight-up second class citizen on OS X. It breaks all sorts of OS X interface conventions because it's not a native Cocoa app, and relies on XUL. Loathe it. Even Camino is better.

But to each their own I suppose.
A Mac Pro with 10.4.11, a MacBook with 10.5.2 and a G3 PowerMac with 10.4.11 all disagree with you about "blazing fast."

This is from two completely different network locations (work and home) so it isn't my ISP giving safari a hard time, if that were even possible.

it is just play slower, no matter what the little graph on apple's page says. I can load that page and click on a link in firefox before safari is finished displaying the first page. even cached it's slower.

gamespy is terribly slow with safari...and like i said, gmail just isn't safari friendly at all...the G3 really shows the differences between the browsers because all pages load slowly, so it exaggerates the time differences...and safari is by far the slowest of the 3 (safari3, opera9 and FF3.)
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Old Mar 10, 2008, 01:18 PM   #16
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Networking?

Even though it's cool that Leopard won there are still things in this review which make me scream:
"No OS can claim perfect networking, but experience again wins out. Windows XP spent the past six years getting networking among XP systems just right"

This has nothing to do with the Windows XP I know.
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Old Mar 10, 2008, 01:22 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benpatient View Post
and like i said, gmail just isn't safari friendly at all...the G3 really shows the differences between the browsers because all pages load slowly, so it exaggerates the time differences...and safari is by far the slowest of the 3 (safari3, opera9 and FF3.)
Well, I guess I wouldn't know with Gmail. I never use the web interface. Hate webmail with a passion. Thank god they implemented IMAP for real clients.
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Old Mar 10, 2008, 01:35 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kamm View Post
Try FF3 - it mops the floor with *any* browser. And looks far better than Safari, I think.
I 2econd that! FF3 = <3

Safari is nice if only it supported more..
it doesn't work with sites that incorporate TinyMCE,
or should I say it has limited support for TinyMCE.
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Old Mar 10, 2008, 01:37 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by killmoms View Post
Wait. What? Safari passed the acid2 test LONG before any other publically available browser did. Safari 2 passed the acid2 test. Like, a year ago. Check your facts.
It was two years ago in fact (source), and its on track to be the first to Acid3 as well, as it already scores 90/100.
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Old Mar 10, 2008, 01:46 PM   #20
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With Apple, users pay every year (or so) to get a major upgrade. Microsoft provides its major Windows upgrades, called Service Packs, free of charge.
Huh????

I would say MS major upgrades are not free. Xp -> Vista for example.
Service packs are not a major upgrade, no more so than 10.4.6 -> 10.4.7 for OS X was.
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Old Mar 10, 2008, 01:51 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by kamm View Post
Safari isn't standard at all, at least certainly not much more than IE7. It's true that both work fine with Apple's non-standard crappy webpage while even FF3 craps out - try downloading anything from Apple, pathetic - but that doesn't make any of it more or less standard.
Try Acid2 test - only FF3 passes it, nothing else.
Acid3 came out last week and every browser fails...


I'm really going to call you out on this, because it sounds like uniformed nonsense to me.

Webkit was through the Acid 2 test in April 2005. Safari 2 was the first browser officially released (as in not in beta) to pass Acid 2.

WebKit is ~90% of the way to passing Acid 3 as well (further progress has been made since this article).

Also Ian Hixie who helped write the Acid 3 test had the following to say about WebKit:

Quote:
“Also, I have to say, it was quite difficult to find standards compliance bugs in WebKit to use in the test. I had to go the extra mile to get WebKit to score low! This was not the case with most of the other browsers”
Don't tell lies about WebKit, it's a better, faster, more efficient and standards compliant engine than Gecko.

If you don't the UI or have had issues with memory leaks or stability in Safari then say so, but check your facts a bit more carefully. Or at the minimum take a quick glance at the Wikipedia entry for Acid 2.
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Old Mar 10, 2008, 02:07 PM   #22
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Ha! This has turned into a browser-wars thread. I agree that Safari is bad, but IE7 is horrible. Hooray for Firefox! On topic: Leopard won. But Macs are more expensive. You pay for quality. If you only need email and a word processor, it's just not worth it.
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Old Mar 10, 2008, 02:12 PM   #23
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Firefox 3 can't even render a basic iWeb page correctly.
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Old Mar 10, 2008, 02:14 PM   #24
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I don't think Safari is responsible for how bad the PC Mag website is... You can barely find the content among the clutter. Maybe I'm just feeling particularly claustrophobic today, but I can't get myself to read it.
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Old Mar 10, 2008, 02:30 PM   #25
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Firefox 3 can't even render a basic iWeb page correctly.
Yes it can. Show an example
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