Why is apple sooo greedy?

macenforcer · Mar 15, 2008

So apple computers have really become a rippoff now that they use intel and they keep trying to gouge consumers even more with the charging of the remote. So what is the deal? I have been waiting for a new macbook pro for a long time and with the release of the penryin macbooks I gave up. Been using OS X for a long time, ever since it came out but I think I have finally given into the MS darkside. Here is why.

Macbook and macbook pro same design since forever. No option to remove the hard, no option to remove the optical bay, no sd card, no 2 button trackpad, did I say same design. THe biggest problem is the fans. WHY do the fans keep spinning all the time? Its poor design.

Finally said screw it and got a thinkpad T61 14" laptop. WOW. Here is what I got.

- 2.5GHz Penryin T9300
- 2GB Ram on one chip
- 250GB Hard Drive
- Built in webcam
- Removable superdrive. Can put battery there or anothe hard drive
- Trackpad and touchpad
- 3 usb ports
- Firewire port
- Spill resistant keyboard
- The nicest keyboard ever made
- Wifi N and Verizon WAN and bluetooth
- Screen goes ALL the way back
- Integrated graphics ( I don't play games)
- Modem, Ethernet
- Upgradeable CPU socket!!!
- PCMCIA Slot
- Express Card SLOT

Oh and the fans have NEVER come on yet. THe laptop runs very cool. Plus I can replace this cpu with something faster later if I want. No need to buy a whole new laptop.

So its basically the best laptop ever made. Just doesn't run OSX. I say screw os x. If I am being ripped of and torchered over it then it becomes too rediculous to keep using.

I havn't totally given up on Apple. Will wait to see if they ever come to their senses.

Oh by the way, that whole configuration listed above cost me only....Ready?

$1190. SHIPPED. And it didn't cost extra to get the black one. Don't hate me because I want the best hardware ok.

Tallest Skil · Mar 15, 2008

macenforcer said:
Don't hate me because I want the best hardware ok.

As long as you don't flame us for wanting the best software.

thejadedmonkey · Mar 15, 2008

That's sweet.

macenforcer · Mar 15, 2008

Tallest Skil said:
As long as you don't flame us for wanting the best software.

I won't. OS X is the best but I want a solid laptop that does what I need to do and you know, XP does that. NOT using VISTA, NEVER WILL. XP can handle it. Just wish it saw more than 3gb of ram but with XP you don't need more than 3gb. Its funny like that. OS X can handle all ram but needs 3gb to run properly. XP uses 500mb with no apps open. But thats running webserver and stuff.

heatmiser · Mar 15, 2008

That's a nice machine. My next laptop will probably be a Thinkpad. They have some sweet deals.

notsofatjames · Mar 15, 2008

ok.. thanks for that. The reason apple products are expensive to what people compare them too, is becuase theyre difficult to compare. No other hardware comes with OSX, and since you cant buy it, its only worth what you think its worth. I think OSX is worth the cost difference, and you do not.

macenforcer said:
OS X can handle all ram but needs 3gb to run properly. XP uses 500mb with no apps open.

My macbook has 1GB of RAM, and can quite easily run OSX and Windows with no applications open properly. In fact, I can run applications in both, at the same time (Parallels) without issue. I do agree that OSX uses more RAM than XP, however i fear your exagerating a small part. OS X can run comfortable on 512MB, and I use XP on a really old PC with a 400MHZ processor and 184MB RAM. My iPhone has more power than that!

Alpinism · Mar 15, 2008

too bad it cant run FCS2 and not having the stability of OS X.

macenforcer · Mar 15, 2008

notsofatjames said:
My macbook has 1GB of RAM, and can quite easily run OSX and Windows with no applications open properly. In fact, I can run applications in both, at the same time (Parallels) without issue. I do agree that OSX uses more RAM than XP, however i fear your exagerating a small part. OS X can run comfortable on 512MB, and I use XP on a really old PC with a 400MHZ processor and 184MB RAM. My iPhone has more power than that!

Might be without issue but you are definately using virtual memory (hard drive space) for your ram. Its alot slower. If you had more ram you would see the difference.

Alpinism said:
too bad it cant run FCS2 and not having the stability of OS X.

Neither can a macbook and they are still more expensive than the Thinkpad.

notsofatjames · Mar 15, 2008

macenforcer said:
Might be without issue but you are definately using virtual memory (hard drive space) for your ram. Its alot slower. If you had more ram you would see the difference.

I used to have 2 GB, but one of the 1GB sticks failed, and caused KPs, so now ive only got a 1 GB stick in, and the difference is negligble. Maybe because I upgraded the hard disk to a faster spinning one.. I love how easy it is to change a hard disk in the macbook, especially compared to other laptops Ive had to do it in.

macenforcer · Mar 15, 2008

Look this thread is not about osx being better than XP. It is a given, but the whole greedy ways of apple. If I can buy a thinkpad for $1200 FULL loaded then why do I have to pay $2500 for the same computer with half the specs??? Apple is ripping everyone off plain and simple and they know they can do it because they have os x. Let apple license os x and watch their hardware business go out the freakin window OVERNIGHT.

Oh I also have a 15" thinkpad t61 and I paid the SAME amount. Just doesn't have a webcam or verizon.

duffyanneal · Mar 15, 2008

I traditionally like Thinkpads, but their screens suck some serious ass. The LED backlit X300 is supposed to have a pretty good screen, but none of the T series screens come even close to the worst screen available in the MBP. Think the yellow 1/3 screen is bad? Try having a screen that looks like you are peering thru a screen door or dim and washed out colors. The 14" T61 (widescreen) with the four cell battery is about the same size and weight as the 15" MBP, but with a whopping 2 - 2.5 hours of battery life. Move up to the 6 cell for 3 - 4 hours of battery life, and tack on more weight and a battery that protrudes from the rear of the machine. I've actually owned several Thinkpads over the years and I currently use one for work. They are good generic work machines that are built fairly well, but they lack some features that I find important.

pondie84 · Mar 15, 2008

Yes Apple products are (comparably) expensive.
Yes their products aren't right for every consumer.
Yes, it's arguable that their products do not match up with other products on the market in some people's opinions.
No it's not particularly necessary to hear complaints from these people.

Enjoy your new notebook. It sounds just right for you. Meanwhile there will be people who will prefer an Apple notebook to the one you have. To each their own.

As to your whole complaint about Apple being 'greedy'. Well that's the way capitalism works. If you exclusively own a product you can set the price of the product at whatever level you think will make you the highest profit margin. Obviously Apple do not think lowering their costs or including more options in their product would increase profits otherwise they would do so.

If your complaint is that Apple want to make the most profit they can then your complaint is with capitalism overall.

mstens · Mar 15, 2008

Congrats on getting what I consider to be one of the all time great 'road warrior' laptops and one that I recommend highly when asked

I have a T61 14" model I work with daily. It really is a great travel laptop and work laptop (I've had a 560, T23, T30, T31, T41 etc) . Oh, one recommendation. I highly recommend getting the port replicator/docking station as the power plugs tend to get 'loose' over the years.. especially if you tend to be less than attentive when inserting or removing it like I am

My only problem when I needed a replacement personal laptop was that I did not like feeling like I had to use an external monitor to do any real photo editing. Not an issue for most people, I know.

Now that all being said when I was shopping recently I discovered that to get to a comparable wide screen version of a T61p (and I really did spec them together)the price was pretty much within the same price point (within $100 counting applicable discounts on both) to what I just spent on a new mbp 15". So, it will depend on what you're doing IMO. I think it's the lack of width of offering more than anything else that you notice with Apple. For instance, you can pick up a pretty sweet 'base" Lenovo laptop for about $700 that will more than suffice for most users. I was hoping, a few years back, that the Mac Mini would be a step in this direction.

queshy · Mar 15, 2008

Nice purchase...I'd have to admit the X61s looks like a sweet deal now (finally) for someone up in Canada...

notsofatjames · Mar 15, 2008

macenforcer said:
Look this thread is not about osx being better than XP. It is a given, but the whole greedy ways of apple. If I can buy a thinkpad for $1200 FULL loaded then why do I have to pay $2500 for the same computer with half the specs??? Apple is ripping everyone off plain and simple and they know they can do it because they have os x. Let apple license os x and watch their hardware business go out the freakin window OVERNIGHT.

Oh I also have a 15" thinkpad t61 and I paid the SAME amount. Just doesn't have a webcam or verizon.

Actually looking at your specs, the macbook may be a better comparison and would probably cost you about $1400 with all the little things you want. A whole $1000 cheaper than you argue for. The only difference is a smaller screen, its 0.1GHz Slower, and it doesnt have the upgrade potential (the two slots and upgrade processor).

duffyanneal · Mar 15, 2008

queshy said:
Nice purchase...I'd have to admit the X61s looks like a sweet deal now (finally) for someone up in Canada...

If you decide to pick up an X61s get one with the ultralight screen. It is brighter and a bit better than the standard screen. BTW, the X series are great machines, the one hiccup was always the standard XGA screen which just doesn't offer enough screen real estate. The X300 looks to be a very good machine, but the price and the neutered CPU is a hangup.

gothamm · Mar 15, 2008

Alpinism said:
too bad it cant run FCS2 and not having the stability of OS X.

stability my ass. Whenever i pop in a dvd, i get an error message that my computer needs to restart. Whenever i try to partition for bootcamp, error message must restart. there goes all of the other applications i had open at that time. hard drive partitions are a nightmare, extracting big files are a nightmare. Had i not been able to run windows on my macbook, i would have never ever went mac.

Tiger might have been awesome when it reached maturity, but the relatively young leopard is full of bugs. Not even the bugs that picky people point out...I am talking basic Sh*t. Like, it would be freaking nice that i dont get error messages when i transfer files from my external HD.

youradhere4222 · Mar 15, 2008

Whoa!

The ThinkPad X Series starts off at 2.7 pounds...

I might have to reconsider getting a MacBook.

iMpathetic · Mar 15, 2008

As much as I love my MacBook, I may sell it for a T61.

As some of you may recall, my previous machine was a 15" Thinkpad T60, which I loved. Insanely great keyboard, decent battery life, and pretty darn fast under XP with a 2GHz Core Duo. I got rid of it for a 2.2GHz black MacBook because I got a great deal; nothing more.

How much, OP, did your T61 cost configured like that?

deadpixels · Mar 15, 2008

gothamm said:
stability my ass. Whenever i pop in a dvd, i get an error message that my computer needs to restart. Whenever i try to partition for bootcamp, error message must restart. there goes all of the other applications i had open at that time. hard drive partitions are a nightmare, extracting big files are a nightmare. Had i not been able to run windows on my macbook, i would have never ever went mac.

Tiger might have been awesome when it reached maturity, but the relatively young leopard is full of bugs. Not even the bugs that picky people point out...I am talking basic Sh*t. Like, it would be freaking nice that i dont get error messages when i transfer files from my external HD.

Mac is way more stable, there can be no arguing about that, duh!

all the issues yo have are not common so i, if i may, suggest that you backup and try to re install the OS.

cthomet · Mar 15, 2008

wow this thread turned into one praising thinkpads. as someone said above, this is causing me to reconsider my purchase of a macbook. but then i look at the software on a mac, fun little stuff like garageband and other cool features and i lean back towards macbook. ive just worked with pcs my whole life and, while it is probably due to the pos computer i have, i havent been happy with them.

with that little internal debate in mind, i must say that i agree to some extent that apple charges too much for some things (apple remote, and uhh RAM, why not price that correctly?). but this is western economics, capitalism as someone said earlier. thats the way we function here in america. overall, especially considering osx, i say apple makes a superior product and therefore can charge a higher price.

also, i agree with the fact that the macbook and macbook pro are in need of an external revision. im hoping for WWDC, but i realize this is a bit of a stretch since its a developers conference. i guess i will wait to see what apple comes out with in the next revision and decide from there which laptop route to take

Alpinism · Mar 15, 2008

May I suggest a 101 manual on using a Mac & OS X. You cannot use OS X like Windows. My AE CS3, FCS2 have been way way stable than my premiere pro CS3 and AE CS3 on my DELL.

gothamm said:
stability my ass. Whenever i pop in a dvd, i get an error message that my computer needs to restart. Whenever i try to partition for bootcamp, error message must restart. there goes all of the other applications i had open at that time. hard drive partitions are a nightmare, extracting big files are a nightmare. Had i not been able to run windows on my macbook, i would have never ever went mac.

Tiger might have been awesome when it reached maturity, but the relatively young leopard is full of bugs. Not even the bugs that picky people point out...I am talking basic Sh*t. Like, it would be freaking nice that i dont get error messages when i transfer files from my external HD.

notsofatjames · Mar 15, 2008

cthomet said:
also, i agree with the fact that the macbook and macbook pro are in need of an external revision. im hoping for WWDC, but i realize this is a bit of a stretch since its a developers conference. i guess i will wait to see what apple comes out with in the next revision and decide from there which laptop route to take

gosh yes! the MBP is long long overdue imo. Needs magnetic latch for starters. I like the old MB style though. One of the last White apple products. Everythings gone black and aluminum now..

cthomet · Mar 15, 2008

notsofatjames said:
gosh yes! the MBP is long long overdue imo. Needs magnetic latch for starters. I like the old MB style though. One of the last White apple products. Everythings gone black and aluminum now..

ya i mean apple is known as an innovative company. so im waiting for an innovative design change on both.

i agree the old macbook design is classic apple, especially the white, but i wouldnt be opposed to change for several small reasons (well things i want to see for sure changed but i will let apples designers make the rest of the design changes, they seem to be ok at their job

) i would like to see the casing around the screen slimmed down, like the mbp. i just think it looks sleeker. also, the palm rest stains or whatever you wanna call em, that issue needs to be resolved. other than that im just going to sit back and wait for apple to work their magic on the design revision (preferably sooner rather than later)

Sun Baked · Mar 15, 2008

Apple may have "consumer" machines, but they are typically in the premium machine bucket all over the map.

Apple made a choice to get rid of the low price/margin machines.

Hasn't hurt them now that they have turned around, since they are one of the strongest PC makers in their class. At least with growth and potential.

Not really a bad position to be in, growing PC business without the cash and margin eating bargain machines.

Why is apple sooo greedy?

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