Check this out-Email from MusicMatch

Frisco · 03:38 PM

As a valued Musicmatch customer and iPod user, we want to alert you to a serious software conflict caused by iTunes for Windows.

Apple iTunes for Windows prevents Musicmatch® Jukebox from working with the iPod by deleting critical files used by Musicmatch. If you install iTunes, you will not be given a choice between Musicmatch Jukebox and iTunes - Apple makes this choice for you.

To avoid any problems and to get the best possible experience when managing your MP3 collection and transferring music to your iPod, here is what we recommend:

1) DO NOT install iTunes for Window on your PC if you are using Musicmatch Jukebox and wish to continue using Musicmatch Jukebox with your iPod.

2) If you have already installed iTunes for Windows but want to continue using Musicmatch Jukebox, please follow these steps:

____·_ Disconnect the iPod from your computer if it is still connected

____·_ Double click on 'My Computer'

____·_ Double click on 'Control Panel'

____·_ Open 'Add or Remove Programs'

____·_ Select and uninstall 'iTunes'

____·_ Select and uninstall the 'iPod for Windows' item

____·_ Select and uninstall the 'Musicmatch iPod Plugin' item

____·_ Select and uninstall the 'iPod System Software Update' or any other iPod related _______items that might be listed

____·_ Select and uninstall 'Musicmatch Jukebox'

____·_ Close the 'Add or Remove Programs' control panel

____·_ Restart your computer

____·_ Delete the contents of the iPod directory by dragging the files to the Recycle Bin _______and then emptying the Recycle Bin

____·_ Navigate to the '\program files\Musicmatch\Musicmatch Jukebox\' folder

____·_ Delete the files, but not the folder, in the Musicmatch Jukebox folder

____·_ Reinstall Musicmatch Jukebox from the installation CD that came with your iPod or _______download the iPod software from the following URL: _______http://www.musicmatch.com/download/f...S=pc&OEM=APPLE

____·_ When finished, reboot your computer

____·_ When the computer finishes rebooting, connect the iPod to your system

____·_ Open Musicmatch Jukebox

If you continue to experience problems or have any questions about this issue, please do not hesitate to contact Musicmatch Customer Support at http://www.musicmatch.com/form/support/index.htm.

We hope you have the best possible music experience with the world's most popular jukebox software - Musicmatch Jukebox.

Thank you.

The Musicmatch Team

SilentPanda · Nov 3, 2003, 03:53 PM

They're probably tired of getting support calls/e-mails about it. Makes sense to me.

jamesatzones · Nov 3, 2003, 03:55 PM

This looks like a last ditch effort to save biz...

Frisco · Nov 3, 2003, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SilentPanda
They're probably tired of getting support calls/e-mails about it. Makes sense to me.

After installing iTunes, who would have the energy to call MusicMatch and complain that it isn't working?

I would only call MusicMatch to complain if it was working

Foxer · Nov 3, 2003, 03:59 PM

Doesn't sound like much of "serious software conflict" to me. Itunes deletes MusicMatch. Ergo, no conflict

Sun Baked · Nov 3, 2003, 04:04 PM

Too complicated...

Somebody should write an Applescript to to this with a single double-click.

Oh right, it's a PC.

Why would anybody want to make a complicated process easy, when you can "pay" somebody to do it for you. I keep forgeting about that bloodsucking MS IT infrastructure leech.

radhak · Nov 3, 2003, 05:04 PM

Wonder if that was from MusicMatch? (because it does not actually promote it

)
By detailing out 18 steps to do this, the email does not have any hope of attracting fans.
More likely, people would run out of breath going down the list (i did), and say, 'all this just for not using iTunes ?!!?' and pass out

idea_hamster · Nov 3, 2003, 06:41 PM

Doesn't seem to discourage iTunes use -- just tells you how to us MusicMatch if you installed iTunes and want to go back.

Never used MM, so I'm not necessarily up on all the info, but I don't recall ever hearing that iTunes would interfere with MM. I know that I'd be a little shocked if I decided to try out iTunes and found that "you can't go home again".

I suppose that Apple thought of MM as a stop-gap measure, but that's no reason not to come clean on how your "best Windows program ever" interacts with other programs -- especially if it get a "doesn't play well with others".

stoid · Nov 3, 2003, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Frisco
We hope you have the best possible music experience with the world's most popular jukebox software - Musicmatch Jukebox.

Is it legal for them to say that, I didn't think that MusicMatch was the world's most popular jukebox software?

arn · Nov 3, 2003, 09:11 PM

This is a somewhat odd situation.

Some people might find this to be deceptive of Apple... but Apple did provide MusicMatch for PC users... so it could be considered an upgrade.

If MusicMatch was called iTunes 0.5b, no one would fault Apple for upgrading to the latest of Apple's iPod Syncing software
(aka iTunes 4.1.1)

That being said.... it is on the aggressive end of the spectrum.

arn

Macette · Nov 3, 2003, 09:15 PM

Surely people who download iTunes actually want to USE it? And I don't know about "serious" software conflict... i would say that Panther destroying information on external firewire harddrives qualifies as "serious", while a few config problems with jukebox software may scrape in as "slightly irritating and worth a small whinge".

Or something.

Sol · Nov 3, 2003, 09:17 PM

Why would anyone want to go on using MusicMatch with their iPod after iTunes was ported to Windows? MusicMatch should forget the iPod and concentrate on their DellPod.

rainman::|:| · Nov 3, 2003, 09:17 PM

i like the line "apple made this choice for you". like they came and installed iTunes on your computer. granted it's not good when software conflicts with other software, but seriously. plus, i would think it would be difficult to use two different programs on one iPod.

so the only way this would be a problem is if someone installed iTunes and then wanted to go back to MM. but, ah, why?

pnw

sethypoo · Nov 3, 2003, 09:20 PM

I wonder why Apple didn't try to make a patch for this in advance?

iJon · Nov 3, 2003, 09:24 PM

who cares, musicmatch made more problems than it solved with the ipods. all my friends started using ephpod.

iJon

beefcake · Nov 3, 2003, 09:27 PM

My first impression of that was that MusicMatch is trying to get people to stop using iTunes by making it seem as if iTunes will ruin their iPod. The first thing you read is a warning that iTunes will screw with iPod connectivity. I don't think it will matter much, as most iPod users are familiar with iTunes as being the original program developed for the iPod. This email will prevent annoying tech support calls, but probably won't sway many users from iTunes.

skymaXimus · 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by stoid
Is it legal for them to say that, I didn't think that MusicMatch was the world's most popular jukebox software?

Yah, and its leagal to say that iTunes for Windows is the best Windows app ever written.
I don't see MM complaining that Apple made the original choice for their iPod customers of what jukebox software to use (Music Match). So how can they get upset w/ Apple for changing the direction of what they say should work w/ the iPod? Apple makes the iPod MM, not you!!
The whole thing is totally bogus. A last ditch effort if you ask me.

Mr. MacPhisto · Nov 3, 2003, 09:42 PM

I don't see this as a problem, especially since Apple now recommends the iPod be used with iTunes and packages them with it. MM still functions, just can't interact with the iPod anymore. Apple has every right to control what their devices will interact with. I wouldn't be surprised if future revisions to the iPod are incapable of working with MM at all.

And besides, people choose to install iTunes and likely want it. MM just doesn't want to have to give up being "the most popular jukebox software" out there. I would think Windows Media Player or WinAmp were more popular though.

iPC · Nov 3, 2003, 09:43 PM

As usual, Apple is against choice. iTunes on a PC shouldn't conflict with MM, or Napster 2.0, etc etc, IF IT WAS WRITTEN PROPERLY!!! Last I checked, the installer file of music program B is not supposed to delete settings files of music program A. That is what is known as "anti-competitive behavior" and if proven true, could see Apple in court.

However, if there is a warning during the install process (none that I have heard about), then it would be okay by me.

cr2sh · 10:04 PM

I'm not sure about this, what if a PC user installs iTunes, but also has a copy of MusicMatch.. but no iPod. I agree with Arn, if iTunes is thought of as an upgrade.. then its okay. What though, if the PC user didnt have Music Match as a result of owning an ipod? Does iTunes still deactivate MusicMatch? If so its kinda shady.

Admin Edit: No, iTunes does not "deactivate" MusicMatch. It only takes over iPod synching functionality. Please re-read the post.

skymaXimus · Nov 3, 2003, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cr2sh
I'm not sure about this, what if a PC user installs iTunes, but also has a copy of MusicMatch.. but no iPod. I agree with Arn, if iTunes is thought of as an upgrade.. then its okay. What though, if the PC user didnt have Music Match as a result of owning an ipod? Does iTunes still deactivate MusicMatch? If so its kinda shady.

It sounds to me like it only deactivates iPod connectivity w/ MM. Thats why you have to trash all those iPod programs from the Add/Remove panel.

arn · Nov 3, 2003, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cr2sh
I'm not sure about this, what if a PC user installs iTunes, but also has a copy of MusicMatch.. but no iPod. I agree with Arn, if iTunes is thought of as an upgrade.. then its okay. What though, if the PC user didnt have Music Match as a result of owning an ipod? Does iTunes still deactivate MusicMatch? If so its kinda shady.

it deactivates MusicMatch ipod synching. MusicMatch still works.

arn

cr2sh · Nov 3, 2003, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by arn
it deactivates MusicMatch ipod synching. MusicMatch still works.

I don't agree with it then. If it were an upgrade, it should have completelly removed MM.

LegionCSUF · Nov 3, 2003, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by arn

If MusicMatch was called iTunes 0.5b, no one would fault Apple for upgrading to the latest of Apple's iPod Syncing software
(aka iTunes 4.1.1)

This falls apart in one very important area: these are programs by two different (and now competing) companies.

This isn't a company updating a shoddy old version of their software (as an "iTunes 0.5b" would be). This is another company's software.

We shouldn't assume that every instance of the software that it breaks exists only to serve the iPod. I don't doubt that there are plenty of MM owners that were using the software before they even bought an iPod. I bet there are others that are using versions of the software newer than what was bundled with their iPod. Having bundled old versions of a software in the past doesn't give you free reign to do something to break a feature of all instances of that software.

Not everyone that installs iTunes is going to keep it. Software choice is a very fickle personal thing, and there are almost for certain a large chunk of MM users that will prefer MM over iTunes. I know we Apple users can't fathom someone not absolutely adoring an Apple software product, but there are plenty that don't. One should be able to experiment with various software packages without having some of them covertly damaging others.

I don't fault Apple for wanting to promote iTunes as the means for Windows users to connect with their iPod, but I do not like the outcome here. If it's an unintentional technical problem, I'd like Apple themselves to say so, and perhaps "fix" it if possible. But if intentional, it's just way too Microsoftian for me.

arn · 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cr2sh
I don't agree with it then. If it were an upgrade, it should have completelly removed MM.

Well, MusicMatch is not Apple's software. Removing it would (definitely) be stepping over the line.

Look at it this way.

Apple ships iPod with [iPod Synching Software 1]. Apple has just updated [iPod Synching Software 1] to a new version called [iPod Synching Software 2] that is the version that now ships with all iPods.

iPod Synching Software 1 = Music Match
iPod Synching Software 2 = iTunes

That being said, I could see people having a problem with this.

arn

Nov 3, 2003, 03:26 PM	#1
Frisco macrumors 68000 Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Nutley, NJ	Check this out-Email from MusicMatch (discouraging iTunes) As a valued Musicmatch customer and iPod user, we want to alert you to a serious software conflict caused by iTunes for Windows. Apple iTunes for Windows prevents Musicmatch® Jukebox from working with the iPod by deleting critical files used by Musicmatch. If you install iTunes, you will not be given a choice between Musicmatch Jukebox and iTunes - Apple makes this choice for you. To avoid any problems and to get the best possible experience when managing your MP3 collection and transferring music to your iPod, here is what we recommend: 1) DO NOT install iTunes for Window on your PC if you are using Musicmatch Jukebox and wish to continue using Musicmatch Jukebox with your iPod. 2) If you have already installed iTunes for Windows but want to continue using Musicmatch Jukebox, please follow these steps: ____·_ Disconnect the iPod from your computer if it is still connected ____·_ Double click on 'My Computer' ____·_ Double click on 'Control Panel' ____·_ Open 'Add or Remove Programs' ____·_ Select and uninstall 'iTunes' ____·_ Select and uninstall the 'iPod for Windows' item ____·_ Select and uninstall the 'Musicmatch iPod Plugin' item ____·_ Select and uninstall the 'iPod System Software Update' or any other iPod related _______items that might be listed ____·_ Select and uninstall 'Musicmatch Jukebox' ____·_ Close the 'Add or Remove Programs' control panel ____·_ Restart your computer ____·_ Delete the contents of the iPod directory by dragging the files to the Recycle Bin _______and then emptying the Recycle Bin ____·_ Navigate to the '\program files\Musicmatch\Musicmatch Jukebox\' folder ____·_ Delete the files, but not the folder, in the Musicmatch Jukebox folder ____·_ Reinstall Musicmatch Jukebox from the installation CD that came with your iPod or _______download the iPod software from the following URL: _______http://www.musicmatch.com/download/f...S=pc&OEM=APPLE ____·_ When finished, reboot your computer ____·_ When the computer finishes rebooting, connect the iPod to your system ____·_ Open Musicmatch Jukebox If you continue to experience problems or have any questions about this issue, please do not hesitate to contact Musicmatch Customer Support at http://www.musicmatch.com/form/support/index.htm. We hope you have the best possible music experience with the world's most popular jukebox software - Musicmatch Jukebox. Thank you. The Musicmatch Team __________________ Frisco Last edited by Frisco : Nov 3, 2003 at 03:38 PM.

Nov 3, 2003, 03:53 PM	#2
SilentPanda Demi-God (Moderator) Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Bamboo Forest	They're probably tired of getting support calls/e-mails about it. Makes sense to me. __________________ Happy Slapsgiving!

Nov 3, 2003, 03:55 PM	#3
jamesatzones macrumors regular Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Seattle	This looks like a last ditch effort to save biz... __________________ "What would you attempt to do if you knew you could not fail?" (author unknown)

Nov 3, 2003, 03:59 PM	#5
Foxer macrumors 65816 Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Falls Church, VA	Doesn't sound like much of "serious software conflict" to me. Itunes deletes MusicMatch. Ergo, no conflict __________________ Luck is the residue of design. - Branch Rickey 24" iMac - MacBook Air - Apple //c "I'll buy almost anything if it is shiny and made by Apple."

Nov 3, 2003, 04:04 PM	#6
Sun Baked macrumors 603 Join Date: May 2002	Too complicated... Somebody should write an Applescript to to this with a single double-click. Oh right, it's a PC. Why would anybody want to make a complicated process easy, when you can "pay" somebody to do it for you. I keep forgeting about that bloodsucking MS IT infrastructure leech. __________________ May you be plagued by images of Richard Simmons flouncing through you brain, and squat thrusting his way though all waking thoughts.

Nov 3, 2003, 05:04 PM	#7
radhak macrumors regular Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NJ, USA	Wonder if that was from MusicMatch? (because it does not actually promote it ) By detailing out 18 steps to do this, the email does not have any hope of attracting fans. More likely, people would run out of breath going down the list (i did), and say, 'all this just for not using iTunes ?!!?' and pass out __________________ iMac 1.25GHz, 768 MB, AE Card

Nov 3, 2003, 06:41 PM	#8
idea_hamster macrumors 6502a Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: NYC, Area 1	Doesn't seem to discourage iTunes use -- just tells you how to us MusicMatch if you installed iTunes and want to go back. Never used MM, so I'm not necessarily up on all the info, but I don't recall ever hearing that iTunes would interfere with MM. I know that I'd be a little shocked if I decided to try out iTunes and found that "you can't go home again". I suppose that Apple thought of MM as a stop-gap measure, but that's no reason not to come clean on how your "best Windows program ever" interacts with other programs -- especially if it get a "doesn't play well with others". __________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts. -- B. Russell

Nov 3, 2003, 09:11 PM	#10
arn macrumors god Join Date: Apr 2001	This is a somewhat odd situation. Some people might find this to be deceptive of Apple... but Apple did provide MusicMatch for PC users... so it could be considered an upgrade. If MusicMatch was called iTunes 0.5b, no one would fault Apple for upgrading to the latest of Apple's iPod Syncing software (aka iTunes 4.1.1) That being said.... it is on the aggressive end of the spectrum. arn

Nov 3, 2003, 09:15 PM	#11
Macette macrumors 6502 Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Melbourne	Surely people who download iTunes actually want to USE it? And I don't know about "serious" software conflict... i would say that Panther destroying information on external firewire harddrives qualifies as "serious", while a few config problems with jukebox software may scrape in as "slightly irritating and worth a small whinge". Or something. __________________ I am Alert, but not Alarmed

Nov 3, 2003, 09:17 PM	#12
Sol macrumors 65816 Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Australia	Forget the iPod MusicMatch Why would anyone want to go on using MusicMatch with their iPod after iTunes was ported to Windows? MusicMatch should forget the iPod and concentrate on their DellPod. __________________ DOWN WITH BIG BROTHER

Nov 3, 2003, 09:17 PM	#13
rainman::\|:\| macrumors 601 Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: iowa	i like the line "apple made this choice for you". like they came and installed iTunes on your computer. granted it's not good when software conflicts with other software, but seriously. plus, i would think it would be difficult to use two different programs on one iPod. so the only way this would be a problem is if someone installed iTunes and then wanted to go back to MM. but, ah, why? pnw

Nov 3, 2003, 09:20 PM	#14
sethypoo macrumors 68000 Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Sacramento, CA, USA	I wonder why Apple didn't try to make a patch for this in advance? __________________ Weeeeeee!

Nov 3, 2003, 09:24 PM	#15
iJon macrumors 601 Join Date: Feb 2002	who cares, musicmatch made more problems than it solved with the ipods. all my friends started using ephpod. iJon

Nov 3, 2003, 09:27 PM	#16
beefcake macrumors 6502 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Baltimore	My first impression of that was that MusicMatch is trying to get people to stop using iTunes by making it seem as if iTunes will ruin their iPod. The first thing you read is a warning that iTunes will screw with iPod connectivity. I don't think it will matter much, as most iPod users are familiar with iTunes as being the original program developed for the iPod. This email will prevent annoying tech support calls, but probably won't sway many users from iTunes.

Nov 3, 2003, 09:42 PM	#18
Mr. MacPhisto macrumors 6502 Join Date: Jan 2003	I don't see this as a problem, especially since Apple now recommends the iPod be used with iTunes and packages them with it. MM still functions, just can't interact with the iPod anymore. Apple has every right to control what their devices will interact with. I wouldn't be surprised if future revisions to the iPod are incapable of working with MM at all. And besides, people choose to install iTunes and likely want it. MM just doesn't want to have to give up being "the most popular jukebox software" out there. I would think Windows Media Player or WinAmp were more popular though.

Nov 3, 2003, 09:43 PM	#19
iPC macrumors 6502 Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: East Windsor, CT	As usual, Apple is against choice. iTunes on a PC shouldn't conflict with MM, or Napster 2.0, etc etc, IF IT WAS WRITTEN PROPERLY!!! Last I checked, the installer file of music program B is not supposed to delete settings files of music program A. That is what is known as "anti-competitive behavior" and if proven true, could see Apple in court. However, if there is a warning during the install process (none that I have heard about), then it would be okay by me. __________________ iBook 800 combo 60GB 7200rpm 640MB airport OS X 10.3 "Panther" iPod 10GB (2nd gen)

Nov 3, 2003, 09:44 PM	#20
cr2sh macrumors 68020 Join Date: May 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio	I'm not sure about this, what if a PC user installs iTunes, but also has a copy of MusicMatch.. but no iPod. I agree with Arn, if iTunes is thought of as an upgrade.. then its okay. What though, if the PC user didnt have Music Match as a result of owning an ipod? Does iTunes still deactivate MusicMatch? If so its kinda shady. Admin Edit: No, iTunes does not "deactivate" MusicMatch. It only takes over iPod synching functionality. Please re-read the post. __________________ Search before you post: MRoogle Last edited by arn : Nov 3, 2003 at 10:04 PM.

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