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Old Mar 20, 2008, 01:27 PM   #1
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Are Apple ads hurting Microsoft's brand?




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Old Mar 20, 2008, 01:29 PM   #2
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I have to admit the more I use MS products, (recently I've been using ASP.NET/Access), the more I dislike them for their ridiculous flaws.

The seriously bad thing is that even if you report the flaws they come back and proudly claim that they are "By Design" which barely makes it worthwhile .
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Old Mar 20, 2008, 01:29 PM   #3
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I wouldn't pay much attention to that, Cnet are Microsoft lovers... End of.
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Old Mar 20, 2008, 02:12 PM   #4
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I wouldn't pay much attention to that, Cnet are Microsoft lovers... End of.
Oh and this forum isn't filled with microsoft haters and Apple gushers?
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Old Mar 20, 2008, 02:14 PM   #5
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Oh and this forum isn't filled with microsoft haters and Apple gushers?
Well not really, no.
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Old Mar 20, 2008, 02:15 PM   #6
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Oh and this forum isn't filled with microsoft haters and Apple gushers?
That's beside the point. He never said we weren't, however CNET claims to offer fair and unbiased views/opinions. Which isn't the case.
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Old Mar 20, 2008, 02:17 PM   #7
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well, correlation does not equal causation. A fall in Microsoft's rep may only be coincidentally due to the rise in Apple's.
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Old Mar 20, 2008, 02:28 PM   #8
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Like all big companies that have a dominant market share (almost silly dominant in MS's case), you become a target of non-conformity loving individuals every where. Apple has wisely tapped into that in it's marketing.

Microsoft's brand is somewhat stodgy as a consumer brand, and even in business you see less love for the brand and products, than for instance at the time that XP came out.

Xbox has a good brand with consumers, but some quality issues has tarnished that a bit too

On the enterprise size Microsoft has likely reached it's peak, its not going to become a minority anytime soon, but they will face a slow erosion of share on the desktop, mobile computing and servers.

The best thing MS can do is to aquire other brands like Yahoo and build on the success of the past, by reinventing itself as mix of companies and brands. Its strategy needs to become more open and collaborative as well.
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Old Mar 20, 2008, 02:29 PM   #9
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I sure hope they are...
Microsoft needs to die.
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Old Mar 20, 2008, 02:31 PM   #10
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I sure hope they are...
Microsoft needs to die.
i hope youre joking... ms is fundamentally important in the computer industry
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Old Mar 20, 2008, 02:49 PM   #11
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Yes before you wish death on anyone, including a corporation, which in reality is nothing more than a group of somebodies, I'd think twice or three times about it. Not only is there the moral question, but also there is large human impact.

Companies need to constantly reinvent themselves now in order to thrive and ultimately survive. The nature of the open/global economy we play in now, makes it a requirement. Microsoft will have to and Apple will have to sometime again in the future.
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Old Mar 20, 2008, 02:50 PM   #12
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I personally hate the Mac ads. If I had to choose what to buy by advertising I wouldn't have chosen Mac. I find them as an attack rather than advertising the benefits of a Mac. They were amusing at the beginning, but I think its gotten to a point that they are annoying. We get the point Mac has this and other PC computers don't. Though that also is incorrect since everything a Mac is capable of is possible on any other PC.

I like my Mac though. Things are much more tailored to work on it.
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Old Mar 20, 2008, 02:57 PM   #13
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I don't think Microsoft needs any help destroying their own image.
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Old Mar 20, 2008, 03:04 PM   #14
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Microsoft makes some excellent software and hardware. They have no problems in my book. And all the monopoly lawsuits are annoying. For instance the crazy European lawsuit about Microsoft including the Windows Media Player. To me its a witch hunt by the other companies to try and eliminate Microsoft's share just as much as Microsoft is trying to grow their market share share. They aren't an evil company. Just a business trying to keep market share, grow and make money. Just as Apple is doing and does.

We could say Apple has a monopoly on portable music players. And that itunes should be open to all portable music players. I'm waiting on a lawsuit for that
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Old Mar 20, 2008, 03:32 PM   #15
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Microsoft hurts Microsoft's brand more than any other company possibly could.

Oh, and Apple isn't on the list of top 100 brands!
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Old Mar 20, 2008, 03:39 PM   #16
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That's beside the point. He never said we weren't, however CNET claims to offer fair and unbiased views/opinions. Which isn't the case.
well they did give almost all apple's products editors choice awards...

And why is cnet biased? I'm not here to invalidate your opinion, I honestly want to know since, I always looked up to cnet's reviews.
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Old Mar 20, 2008, 04:00 PM   #17
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No, infact I know many who are actually turned off by apple's ads and the "apple attitude"
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Old Mar 20, 2008, 04:56 PM   #18
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Microsoft makes some excellent software and hardware. They have no problems in my book. And all the monopoly lawsuits are annoying. For instance the crazy European lawsuit about Microsoft including the Windows Media Player. To me its a witch hunt by the other companies to try and eliminate Microsoft's share just as much as Microsoft is trying to grow their market share share. They aren't an evil company. Just a business trying to keep market share, grow and make money. Just as Apple is doing and does.

We could say Apple has a monopoly on portable music players. And that itunes should be open to all portable music players. I'm waiting on a lawsuit for that
You are wrong, the EU cases are not a "witchhunt" Microsoft has a history of dodgy deals, shady tactics, back stabbing partners and anti-competitive practice.

You are also wrong about iPod + iTunes being a monopoly. Apple got to their position by competing a level playing field in a fair and open market. Microsoft went out of their way to be disruptive when establishing Windows and have been abused their position of power on countless occasions ever since.
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Old Mar 20, 2008, 05:23 PM   #19
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No, infact I know many who are actually turned off by apple's ads and the "apple attitude"
I know many people who think of Mac users in general as stuck up jerks who think they are better than everyone else.

In a way I can kinda see where they are coming from in some cases. Apple fans should just lie low and be the cool underdog.


Apple would not be Apple if Apple where in Microsofts position. It has benefits sometimes not being the markedleader.


On topic: I hate my XBox 360. I hate that machine. noisy, annoying... just like with windows, its saving grace is the software.

Please Sony.. Please, kill Xbox. Playstation is a powerful brand. I know the PS3 has the potential to kill the Xbox.
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Old Mar 20, 2008, 07:12 PM   #20
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i hope youre joking... ms is fundamentally important in the computer industry
Not really. Microsoft is only important because lots of people use it. If people stop using it, then they'll be using something else, and it won't be a problem if it dies. It doesn't seem particularly likely, mind you, but there's nothing fundamental about Microsoft's position. There have been other industries where one company, or a small group of companies, had the market cornered and then lost that monopoly, and the industries themselves survived.
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Old Mar 20, 2008, 07:32 PM   #21
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I actually think the ads are slowly tilting *in favor* of PC. Why? Because in spite of the underlying message, the ad itself makes PC more and more likable (funny, cute, amusing, self-derogatory, etc), whereas Mac Guy is coming across more smug, annoying and arrogant - but worst of all, boring. The first few ads worked great, and I love the actors, but I think the last couple may actually hurt Apple more. Probably time to move to a new ad scheme.
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Old Mar 20, 2008, 09:44 PM   #22
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Please Sony.. Please, kill Xbox. Playstation is a powerful brand. I know the PS3 has the potential to kill the Xbox.
No. Don't. No, and No.
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Old Mar 20, 2008, 10:56 PM   #23
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Not really. Microsoft is only important because lots of people use it. If people stop using it, then they'll be using something else, and it won't be a problem if it dies. It doesn't seem particularly likely, mind you, but there's nothing fundamental about Microsoft's position. There have been other industries where one company, or a small group of companies, had the market cornered and then lost that monopoly, and the industries themselves survived.
without ms, the industry wouldnt be where it is today

same with apple

its hard to play whatif's with the past and how it affects the present
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Old Mar 21, 2008, 12:27 AM   #24
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i hope youre joking... ms is fundamentally important in the computer industry
Only if you're an IT manager or techie. Otherwise, the industry as a whole would be well rid of M$. Crap products that are difficult to use and easy to break, are unreliable and have massive security vulnerabilities, that the manufacturer is either incapable or unwilling to fix, need service engineers - lots of them.

That was fine - for stupid people - back in the day. But no longer tolerable.

Now, most of you will have put me in your MS hater pigeon hole. Fine. But I don't just hate MS. I loath and detest MS, as I do all bad businesses, of which MS is a prime example and the biggest. When they started chasing Yahoo, the image of a flea-bitten mongrel eating a turd came to mind.

As has already been said, their business tactics since day one have been questionable at best, and criminal at worst. They abuse software developers, push sub-standard products on a worldwide addicted user network like drug barons. This is a matter of record. People really need to study the details before defending Gates and his idiot crew, and knocking Apple with false statements.

Apple has a lot wrong with it. Until recently it's been terrible at providing credible enterprise options - other than for creatives. Generally, it's marketing, particularly in the UK has been lamentable. Customer service has some serious issues.

But Apple definitely does not have a monopoly in the music industry. All that happened is that they negotiated deals that anyone could have negotiated, and grabbed market share that anyone could have grabbed, had they recognized what was happening with Napster, and designed two superb products to coincide with Napster's downfall as a free download service.

The dream ticket of iPod and iTunes is THE single best business lesson of the latter half of the 20th and early 21 Century combined. In marketing terms it's pure genius. But make no mistake, Apple owes it all to that music industry law case that closed down Napster.

The reason MS is crap, is the same reason they are in terminal decline and Apple are grabbing real market share: Even with 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 times as many people employed than Apple, MS could never innovate with any kind of insight into human behaviour or imagination. They never have and they never will. They are a one act show. They lucked out with IBM and rode the same donkey home for three decades.

And if you think that people 'BUY INTO' Apple as a fad or a gimmick, you're not paying attention. Good design used to be the preserve of the rich and the cognoscenti. What has happened is that, ever since the original coloured iMacs, Apple have democratised the ownership of good design. It's that simple. We should all get down on our knees and worship the air Jonathan Ive breathes.

And good design isn't only about what a thing looks like. It's equally importantly about how it works, how well it works and how you use it. Good looks offer you first a face you can trust, and then a style you're proud to be associated with. But without function - all you've got is ornament. Apple provides both better, more often and more consistently than anyone else.
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Old Mar 21, 2008, 02:05 AM   #25
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NO: Microsoft IS INDEED IMPORTANT! Imagine Apple without a competition! That's why they look so good: Because Microsoft is complete and utter crap!
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