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Old Mar 30, 2008, 05:33 AM   #1
Ninja_Turtle
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iPhone & AT&T, does anyone listen to your calls or track you??

just wondering if att or apple listen to phone calls that are done on the iPhone for whatever reason, or if they track where you go and what places you visit to help them create "better" software for the iPHone user.

just a little paranoid of the New World Order.
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Old Mar 30, 2008, 05:40 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja_Turtle View Post
just wondering if att or apple listen to phone calls that are done on the iPhone for whatever reason, or if they track where you go and what places you visit to help them create "better" software for the iPHone user.

just a little paranoid of the New World Order.
No NWO worries here in San Francisco, California. All my calls and text messages are kept in chronological order and there doesn't seem to be any gaps. There have been months where my wife, my son, his girlfriend and myself can send over 1,000 text messages and somehow AT&T never misses any of them. As for a subpoena or warrant, I'm pretty sure AT&T falls over backwards to accommodate law enforcement and the government agencies that bully their way into phone and text message records.
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Old Mar 30, 2008, 05:46 AM   #3
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...subpoena ...

what is this subpoena you speak about?


also, one of my friends went to san fran recently, he found out that metro pcs is government owned and that someone 'out there' is listening. eerie


haha
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Old Mar 30, 2008, 05:59 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja_Turtle View Post
what is this subpoena you speak about?


also, one of my friends went to san fran recently, he found out that metro pcs is government owned and that someone 'out there' is listening. eerie


haha
Law Enforcement and Government Agencies can subpoena phone records for investigative purposes, but only with a warrant signed by a judge. The whole Patriot Act Thing gives alot of leeway when it comes warrants or searches of phone records without warrants because of 9/11. Communications major with emphasis on "Privacy v. Security."
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Old Mar 30, 2008, 06:46 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja_Turtle View Post
just wondering if att or apple listen to phone calls that are done on the iPhone for whatever reason, or if they track where you go and what places you visit to help them create "better" software for the iPHone user.

just a little paranoid of the New World Order.
When I hear people talk about the new world order I often wonder why they buy into stuff like that.

Put it this way; the government can't even run the health service or the education system properly, so what makes people think a handful of people could be take over the world?

I'm in the UK, but I'm sure you can draw on similar government failure in the US. And it's these heads of state that are supposed to be behind the so called new world order. Come on, Bush couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery! We wouldn't actually know if he failed, because he'd just invade someone to divert attention.

Or maybe I'm just putting the idea down because I'm actually one of them

C
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Old Mar 30, 2008, 06:47 AM   #6
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Yes!

Yes, we do. I work part time at both Apple and AT&T retail and have seen it first hand. Each store has a little lab in back with recording equipment and access to the main server in Nevada.

And by the way, you call your mom waaaaaay too much. Your GF is starting to get jealous, and last week had a nightmare about you having an Oedipus complex (I listen to her, too).

Seriously bro, shape it up.
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Old Mar 30, 2008, 06:53 AM   #7
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Yes, we do. I work part time at both Apple and AT&T retail and have seen it first hand. Each store has a little lab in back with recording equipment and access to the main server in Nevada.

And by the way, you call your mom waaaaaay too much. Your GF is starting to get jealous, and last week had a nightmare about you having an Oedipus complex (I listen to her, too).

Seriously bro, shape it up.
Okay, you put it much better than I did
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Old Mar 30, 2008, 08:39 AM   #8
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Old Mar 30, 2008, 08:44 AM   #9
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I think you are safer to assume that information is being tracked.
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Old Mar 30, 2008, 09:18 AM   #10
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Haven't you seen the newest Die Hard movie? They've got banks of computers tracking all of this stuff.
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Old Mar 30, 2008, 09:53 AM   #11
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If you take the time to read the Software License you agreed to, it says that using Google Mobile Maps entitles them to (even in realtime) map your location and search requests.

However, they aren't supposed to tie those into your personal identity.

But I suspect that if a group of users in one area all typed in "bombmaking" or "cocaine", that you'd see some Federales come around to visit

===

On an historical note, back in the early 60's Ma Bell had a secret program for a while where their operators would randomly listen in on calls, ostensibly to be able to call the police if "they heard a robbery or rape in progress". Once Congress heard about it, it was stopped.
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Old Mar 30, 2008, 12:25 PM   #12
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This is my own opinion, but i don't really care if the track me or listen to my phone records. What i don't know won't hurt me, and it's not like these people come home to their familys and say:

"Honey you'll never guess what i heard today."
"What did you hear?"
"This guy was talking about how him and his mother went to go see a movie the other day"


You never know though, but i highly doubt they track the places us iPhone uses go. Unless they do the locate me feature and that somehow sends info to google / apple.
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Old Mar 30, 2008, 12:31 PM   #13
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Do you think the "Locate me" feature was also used by AT&T to see where the majority of their users are using their phone to plan our where their 3G network needs to increase?
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Old Mar 30, 2008, 12:38 PM   #14
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I doubt it, but AT&T could see where the iPhone users are though, in a general area im pretty sure by basing it off cell towers.
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Old Mar 30, 2008, 01:01 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFStateStudent View Post
Law Enforcement and Government Agencies can subpoena phone records for investigative purposes, but only with a warrant signed by a judge. The whole Patriot Act Thing gives alot of leeway when it comes warrants or searches of phone records without warrants because of 9/11. Communications major with emphasis on "Privacy v. Security."
Warrant, shmarrant. Do a quick google search for 'federal wiretapping' you might be surprised.

To the OP, the answer is a resounding 'YES'.

/puts on tinfoil hat
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Old Mar 30, 2008, 01:04 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emulsion View Post
Do you think the "Locate me" feature was also used by AT&T to see where the majority of their users are using their phone to plan our where their 3G network needs to increase?
I've pressed the "locate me" feature sitting in my living room and it shows that I'm in the AREA of Vallejo, California? I'm probably playing "cell phone tower tag!" I'm actually 20-30 miles from the Blue Circle.
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Old Mar 30, 2008, 03:18 PM   #17
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You never know though, but i highly doubt they track the places us iPhone uses go. Unless they do the locate me feature and that somehow sends info to google / apple.
They claim they don't track Locate Me requests. But Maps requests they do.

Google is very interested in correlating search requests and the user's location at the time of the request. This helps them figure out better responses and raise the value of localized ads.

More info here: Google and Locate Me

The agreement we all signed by downloading GMM (Maps Mobile) for iPhone/Touch includes this:

"Apple may provide certain services through your iPhone that rely upon location information. To provide these services, Apple and its partners may collect, maintain, process and use your location data, including the real-time geographic location of your iPhone. By using or activating any location-based services on your iPhone, you agree and consent to Apple's and its partners' collection, maintenance, processing and use of your location data to provide you with such services. The location data is collected in a form that does not personally identify you. You may withdraw this consent at any time by turning off the location-based feature on your iPhone or by not using the location-based features. Turning off or not using these features will not impact the functionality of your iPhone."

Last edited by kdarling; Mar 30, 2008 at 03:32 PM.
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Old Mar 30, 2008, 04:26 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja_Turtle View Post
just wondering if att or apple listen to phone calls that are done on the iPhone for whatever reason, or if they track where you go and what places you visit to help them create "better" software for the iPHone user.

just a little paranoid of the New World Order.
No more than any other cell phone company does! The fact that you're on an iPhone just means that you're enjoying your cell more than other people being eavesdropped upon!
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Old Mar 30, 2008, 06:14 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja_Turtle View Post
just wondering if att or apple listen to phone calls that are done on the iPhone for whatever reason, or if they track where you go and what places you visit to help them create "better" software for the iPHone user.

just a little paranoid of the New World Order.
If you're really that paranoid, you shouldn't be carrying a cell phone.

Basically, you're at no more risk of eavesdropping/government tracking on AT&T than with any other carrier. And when I say that, it should be inferred that ALL of the Tier 1 wireless carriers in the US have cooperated with the government on eavesdropping. The only known company to resist is Qwest, but they only resell wireless service these days, and only in a limited area.

If the government wants to, they can track and eavesdrop on calls and text messages regardless of what cell phone or carrier you have. The iPhone doesn't put you at more or less risk for this.

WILL they eavesdrop on you? In reality, they're (probably) not going to listen in on the phone calls of random people just for giggles. But if you do something to catch the government's attention or annoy them enough, then you should probably act under the assumption that you're being tracked/listened to.

You've probably "annoyed" the government or gotten their attention if you:

a. Are a terrorist or say nice things about terrorists
b. Do not-so-nice-things online
c. Commit crimes and talk about them a lot on your cell phone, e-mail or in SMS, or
d. Loudly say things about The War that would make the Baby Bush cry.

This is of course, an incomplete list, and can expand at will depending whether the current administration feels like trampling on the constitution again today.

About record keeping...

Call records: AT&T, like all other companies, generally keeps an archive of your bills for the past two years (or for as long as you've been with them, whichever period is shorter). Those bill archives tend to list who you called (or who called you), when those calls took place, ad how long the call lasted. Audio archives of calls are NOT kept by AT&T. However, law enforcement will archive recorded calls if they have a wiretap active.

Text messages: records of the date/time and sender/recipient of text messages are listed on the bills, so they too are kept archived for two years. The content of those messages are NOT recorded on the bills, and AT&T claims they keep message content for a maximum of 72 hours (mainly to help ensure people get their messages if their phones are off or if they're out of a coverage area). But again, all bets are off if the government has a warrant or FISA letter and finds you interesting.

You can see these archives for yourself by logging into AT&T's Online Account Manager (or the online account manager of your wireless carrier of choice) and look for past bills in the "view my bill" section. There, in all their glory, are up to two years' worth of your past bills.

The one industry stand-out to all of this is SkyTel, the paging company. As the Mayor of Detroit has discovered, SkyTel routinely archives ALL text messages sent or received on their network for a period of up to 5 years. They archive everything: what was said, who it was said to, and even what the message was in response to, if it was a reply. And evidently, they'll cough up this info to just about anyone who asks: be it detectives, government representatives, or newspapers like the Detroit Free Press. I'll leave it up to you as to whether or not that was a good thing in the case of Detroit, but if you're trying to keep your communications private (or doing naughty sexual/politically corrupt deeds), then from your perspective being a SkyTel customer is very, very bad indeed.

So if you're paranoid, don't get a SkyTel pager. But then, why anyone in modern times would get a pager, is beyond me.

Lastly, MetroPCS is a publicly traded company. They are not government owned-operated. Not sure where you got that from.

Last edited by scaredpoet; Mar 30, 2008 at 06:33 PM.
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Old Mar 31, 2008, 08:18 AM   #20
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I doubt it, but AT&T could see where the iPhone users are though, in a general area im pretty sure by basing it off cell towers.
Correct. If you're phone is powered on, they know what cell sector you are registered on. If you come up on a call, the E911 folks will know where you are within ~300 yards about 90% of the time (for emergency purposes and if you're state/county/town has phase II E911 capability.
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Old Mar 31, 2008, 09:11 AM   #21
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I doubt it, but AT&T could see where the iPhone users are though, in a general area im pretty sure by basing it off cell towers.
Quote:
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Correct. If you're phone is powered on, they know what cell sector you are registered on. If you come up on a call, the E911 folks will know where you are within ~300 yards about 90% of the time (for emergency purposes and if you're state/county/town has phase II E911 capability.

Ummmm you folks do know that the iPhone has ****NOTHING**** (special) to do with this equation right?!?!! It's AT&Ts network (or Sprint, or Verizon, or insert your favorite overseas provider) and guess what?! Each and every one of them know where each and every user on their network is at any given time! (yes the phone has to be on -- otherwise your not connected to their netowork).

Big brother is EVERYWHERE! Muhahahahah!

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Old Mar 31, 2008, 09:49 AM   #22
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Here in the UK, there's been quite a few incidences of criminals being caught, purely by police tracking their cell phone pulse, LOL.
The iPhone has nothing to do with it.
Is big brother watching? Well, not everyone, but I'm sure they can do it very easily to anybody, if they considered you a threat to national security of something.
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Old Jul 9, 2008, 08:32 PM   #23
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I think this thread should not be taken lightly - although these issues often are.

Anyone owning a cel phone should just realize that they are vulnerable to "big brother" - the technology is way beyond what you are told. All new phones - and I suspect especially those new digital TV's they are pushing so hard - can be activated to listen to AMBIENT conversation using the microphone on the device, EVEN WHEN TURNED OFF. The only way to disable this feature is to REMOVE THE BATTERY.

Geez - well looky there - the Iphone battery CAN"T BE REMOVED.

See this: http://news.cnet.com/FBI-taps-cell-p....html?hhTest=1

And this: http://www.wired.com/science/discove.../2006/04/70619

Wake up people - Briton already has more public cameras turned on their people than any other country - and they are now LISTENING as well.

I suspect that the tracking feature (whether GPS or through the towers) may also soon be able to track the phone whether on or off - if it isn't already able to.

Echelon tracks emails and text messages.

These are simply built into the technology and we HAVE to assume that they are functional - so just an FYI. If you are making plans to blow up something - you might want to leave your phone at home.

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Old Jul 9, 2008, 09:11 PM   #24
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Tinfoil hats tend to keep you from being tracked. The triangle shape is best.
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Old Jul 9, 2008, 09:19 PM   #25
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