Why is FCP so... outdated

[InkMaster]

Heres a good question for you all; why is it that Final Cut Pro hasn't had a single half decent UI refresh within the last decade? I mean it looked great 9 years ago when it was just released, now its just plain... cheesy and outdated.

Most every other Apple pro app already received the new gui treatment (from logic to aperture to soundtrack etc... And speaking of gui, wtf is w/ Color - it looks like it came out of the 80s everything looks horrible there, from the icons to the fonts to everything else...

Anyone care to explain that? :/ I just recently got into alot of video editing and for the last few weeks FCP has been for the most price an overpriced joke especially when you compare it to other apps such as Adobe Premiere... iduno, maybe my standards are a little too high, but I just came to expect alot more from Apple especially after using the latest versions of Logic/Aperture...

[LethalWolfe]

Originally Posted by InkMaster

Heres a good question for you all; why is it that Final Cut Pro hasn't had a single half decent UI refresh within the last decade? I mean it looked great 9 years ago when it was just released, now its just plain... cheesy and outdated.

The number one reason is most likely that a big GUI overhaul will cause a huge uproar in the final cut community. Time is money and no editor is going to take kindly to having to essentially re-learn the application. Avid is in the same boat although their interface that hasn't changed much since the mid '90s. 2nd biggest reason is probably that the GUI, while old, is still solid. 3rd, FCP has much bigger fish to fry before they start redoing the GUI.

Most every other Apple pro app already received the new gui treatment (from logic to aperture to soundtrack etc... And speaking of gui, wtf is w/ Color - it looks like it came out of the 80s everything looks horrible there, from the icons to the fonts to everything else...

Color looks like other high end grading software where function is much more important than form. Apple purchased the small company that made Color (formerly called Final Touch) and hasn't made very many changes to it. Although people assume Apple will do a bit to clean up the interface just like they did eventually w/Shake. Of course, before Apple addresses the Color GUI they should fix some of the stuff that makes less than stellar to use.

Anyone care to explain that? :/ I just recently got into alot of video editing and for the last few weeks FCP has been for the most price an overpriced joke especially when you compare it to other apps such as Adobe Premiere... iduno, maybe my standards are a little too high, but I just came to expect alot more from Apple especially after using the latest versions of Logic/Aperture...

Premiere got a massive overhaul going from 6.5 to Pro because the program was a sinking ship and Adobe had to take drastic measures to keep it from falling of the face of the planet. FCP probably won't see a new GUI until we see a whole, brand new written from the ground rewrite of the software.


Lethal

[Killyp]

Apple managed to do it with Logic - I don't see why they can't do it with FCP...

[bigbossbmb]

because most professional FCP users don't want them to change the interface. they would rather see changes in the important parts of the program that are lacking (ie Media Management, Multi-User Environments, etc).

Functionality-wise, there isn't anything wrong with the interface.

[nuckinfutz]

Originally Posted by InkMaster

Heres a good question for you all; why is it that Final Cut Pro hasn't had a single half decent UI refresh within the last decade? I mean it looked great 9 years ago when it was just released, now its just plain... cheesy and outdated.

Most every other Apple pro app already received the new gui treatment (from logic to aperture to soundtrack etc... And speaking of gui, wtf is w/ Color - it looks like it came out of the 80s everything looks horrible there, from the icons to the fonts to everything else...

Anyone care to explain that? :/ I just recently got into alot of video editing and for the last few weeks FCP has been for the most price an overpriced joke especially when you compare it to other apps such as Adobe Premiere... iduno, maybe my standards are a little too high, but I just came to expect alot more from Apple especially after using the latest versions of Logic/Aperture...

The technical answer.

Apple killed 64-bit Carbon at WWDC last year. Final Cut Pro is a Carbon app. Apple had a decision to make. Fix the internals with substantive upgrades or make the app glossy. They chose the former. ProRes 422, the timeline updates and camera support are more welcome than the Bling Bling. Note that Apple didn't exibit at NAB this year. Odds are they are over halfway to porting Final Cut Studio to Cocoa which will deliver full 64-bit support.

I expect Color's UI to improve but I don't expect it to look like Motion or even FCP. It's UI needs to complement the task as the poster above states (paraphrasing).

I'm sure MANY people will disagree with you regarding your "overpriced" comment. Premiere Pro is a solid app but to approach the bundle you get wtih Apple you have to purchase the Production Premium (PP)which is $1500 and quite frankly comes loaded with apps that video pro don't always need (i.e Photoshop, Illustrator and Flash) Truthfully I'd rather have Final Cut Studio. Motion doesn't give me parity with After Effects but Color is WAY better than anything in PP. It was $25k before Apple bought it. Getting Color Grading at $1299 is a steal and then you add in the other stuff. I like DVD Studio Pro better than Encore and Compressor is turning into a nifty app.

Try to get comfortable with both systems and realize that while Apple loves a good interface their clients are billing by the hour so the app has to work first and foremost. They'll revamp the UI but their hands have been full getting Color and Final Cut Server ready not to mention the possibility of creating a Shake replacement.

I'm convinced that there's not a better overall program out there and almost a million FCP users wouldn't have a problem with that statement is my guess.

Originally Posted by bigbossbmb

because most professional FCP users don't want them to change the interface. they would rather see changes in the important parts of the program that are lacking (ie Media Management, Multi-User Environments, etc).

Functionality-wise, there isn't anything wrong with the interface.

Exactly. I think Apple could go a year with what they have now (with just a few free updates) and a lot of pros would be fine. Seeing as how Final Cut Server was delayed I think Apple's a bit behind schedule and may be launching a Cocoa FCS next year

[speakerwizard]

"FCP has been for the most price an overpriced joke" i hope thats a joke, its the best suite about, have a look at what colour used to cost alone and then say the whole studio is overpriced

[mongoos150]

It's definitely not a "cheesy" UI - it functions perfectly, and it doesn't need a refresh. It's clean and simple - shouldn't you be focusing on your film instead of on your software's "old" UI? The color mutation (uniform dull grey) is brilliant for color balancing. If it aint broke, don't fix it.

[P-Worm]

I think that the UI in FCP is just fine. I think the problem is that this is probably your first experience with Pro apps (I'm guessing here, but I could be wrong). In consumer applications, making a pretty looking program is almost more important than the program itself. This is because the casual consumer latches on to stuff like that. With professional applications, functionality is first and foremost. Professionals don't care if their programs are pretty looking as long as it does the job done efficiently.

In the case of Final Cut Pro, the interface is pretty efficient and solid. Could they make it prettier? Sure. But there's a lot of people out there that would rather have better features than shinier buttons.

As for Color - yes it's true that it is butt-ugly. Those folder icons are absolutely horrendous. As was mentioned previously, Apple didn't do much work on the program when they bought Final Touch other than to make sure that it worked well with the other applications in Final Cut Studio (in my opinion, there's still quite a few kinks that have to be ironed out in this department before it gets a UI lift).

One thing about Color that you probably didn't know, is the background for the application is an ugly looking grey on purpose - it's not just because it's going for the 90's look. They pick the grey because when you are color grading, you should periodically look at an even grey color to 'readjust' your eyes. If you look at something for a long time without a frame of reference, you start to get used to the colors making correcting the footage harder. You keep wanting to push the colors if you are going for an extreme look only to come back later and realize that you went way too far. Looking a grey can help you reset your eyes.

P-Worm

[faustfire]

Originally Posted by P-Worm

I think that the UI in FCP is just fine. I think the problem is that this is probably your first experience with Pro apps (I'm guessing here, but I could be wrong). In consumer applications, making a pretty looking program is almost more important than the program itself. This is because the casual consumer latches on to stuff like that. With professional applications, functionality is first and foremost. Professionals don't care if their programs are pretty looking as long as it does the job done efficiently.
P-Worm

No offence to the OP, but its hard to take someone seriously when you say "I just recently got into alot of video editing," and then proceed to refere one of the most well respected editing suites in the industry as cheesy, outdated, and "an overpriced joke ."

[beast]

Dude.... when Apple changed the UI in iMovie 08 there was an uproar.... can you imagine how much flack Apple would take if they changed the FCP UI

[-DH]

Originally Posted by InkMaster

I just recently got into alot of video editing and for the last few weeks FCP has been for the most price an overpriced joke especially when you compare it to other apps such as Adobe Premiere... iduno, maybe my standards are a little too high

Sounds like the above was written by someone yet to define what their 'standards' actually are. Perhaps the OP's standards aren't based on productivity, but on shiny bells and whistles who's sole purpose is to dazzle.

And the use of the phrase "overpriced joke" only indicates a weak grasp of the software's capabilities. Like any other software title used by professionals, FCP is merely a tool. And compared to the other NLE tools available, FCP is very good at what it does ... IF you know how to use it properly. Shiny bells and whistles don't really help ... but they do often hinder and distract.

Originally Posted by InkMaster

iduno

That about sums it up.

-DH

[InkMaster]

Originally Posted by bigbossbmb

because most professional FCP users don't want them to change the interface. they would rather see changes in the important parts of the program that are lacking (ie Media Management, Multi-User Environments, etc).

Functionality-wise, there isn't anything wrong with the interface.

Well I'm not suggesting a complete overhaul, but atleast a minor update would be nice -- ie all the buttons, scrollbars, general look etc -- I mean ffs, it still looks like a OS9 app all the way around...

Originally Posted by nuckinfutz

Note that Apple didn't exibit at NAB this year. Odds are they are over halfway to porting Final Cut Studio to Cocoa which will deliver full 64-bit support.

So you think theres any chance of seeing an updated version maybe next year?

Originally Posted by speakerwizard

"FCP has been for the most price an overpriced joke" i hope thats a joke, its the best suite about, have a look at what colour used to cost alone and then say the whole studio is overpriced

Not the best choice of words, but certainly no joke, its just that I expected something on par w/ Logic Pro 8/Aperture...

Originally Posted by mongoos150

It's definitely not a "cheesy" UI - it functions perfectly, and it doesn't need a refresh. It's clean and simple

iduno... the OS9 look is neither clean nor simple...

Originally Posted by faustfire

No offence to the OP, but its hard to take someone seriously when you say "I just recently got into alot of video editing,"

Originally Posted by P-Worm

I think that the UI in FCP is just fine. I think the problem is that this is probably your first experience with Pro apps (I'm guessing here, but I could be wrong)...

...One thing about Color that you probably didn't know, is the background for the application is an ugly looking grey on purpose...

Well let me rephrase that, I didn't "just get into video editing" - rather I've done alot of it in the past, however back in those days I used Premiere,I'm just relatively new to Final Cut

I'm not saying I don't like the color of Color, in that regard I think its great, its just that...

...what in gods name is with those buttons, those fonts, those icons, and in general that ass-fugly gui...


I mean I know its all about how much an app does and not how it looks when it comes to pro apps, but when for example when Aperture just came out I was able to pick it up, and instantly use it, when Logic Pro 8 came out, I could pick that up and use it within a few days w/o reading libraries on "how to use it" --- FCP on the other hand... yeah...

[LethalWolfe]

Originally Posted by InkMaster

I'm not saying I don't like the color of Color, in that regard I think its great, its just that...

...what in gods name is with those buttons, those fonts, those icons, and in general that ass-fugly gui...

Like I said in my first reply, Color is very unchanged from the high quality, low cost (low cost meaning about $25k) grading app formerly known as Final Touch and there are much bigger problems w/the app that need to be addressed before superficial stuff like buttons, fonts, and icons.

I mean I know its all about how much an app does and not how it looks when it comes to pro apps, but when for example when Aperture just came out I was able to pick it up, and instantly use it, when Logic Pro 8 came out, I could pick that up and use it within a few days w/o reading libraries on "how to use it" --- FCP on the other hand... yeah...

For basic stuff FCP has a very shallow learning curve (which is actually one of the digs against it in professional circles). Coming from an Avid and Premiere (not Premiere Pro) background I was able to get the FCP basics down in a day or so. The deeper you go the steeper the learning curve becomes but that's the only way to truly get proficient and fast.


Lethal

[Mr B]

One of the great things about FCP is that there are often many different ways to do the same thing. This way you can discover and use what is most efficient for you.

There are occasional shortcomings that I sometimes get annoyed at, but out of all my pro apps, including aperture, adobe suite, etc. FCP is my workhorse and my headquarters.

The whole studio package is worth much more than the cost. The slow but steady improvements to motion, soundtrack, compressor, and the inclusion of color make it the best value of all my production and post-production tools imo.

[Wild-Bill]

Originally Posted by beast

Dude.... when Apple changed the UI in iMovie 08 there was an uproar.... can you imagine how much flack Apple would take if they changed the FCP UI

LOL. They did a lot more than just change the UI in iMovie08. They destroyed it. iMovie 08 sucks.

[iMacZealot]

Originally Posted by LethalWolfe

For basic stuff FCP has a very shallow learning curve (which is actually one of the digs against it in professional circles). Coming from an Avid and Premiere (not Premiere Pro) background I was able to get the FCP basics down in a day or so. The deeper you go the steeper the learning curve becomes but that's the only way to truly get proficient and fast.

Yeah, coming from (almost) no video editing experience prior, I was able to learn a Mac and the basics of FCP within about a week when I took a video editing course when I was 11. However, beyond the razor blade and pen tools, things get a little difficult, and you must be patient to learn them over time. Eventually, everything seems really intuitive. However, it's still sort of a learning experience for me, as with every project, I'll learn something new.

[NickFalk]

Being in many ways the definition of a prosumer, having used FCP to make an substantial additional income since version 2.0, the "overpriced joke" statement is by nature irritating. This year's Academy Award for Best Picture went to a film edited in FCP and Macs+FCP have replaced AVID in many production enviroments. It is a well proven pro-app that gone from strength to strength since it was released.

However, I do agree that there is room for improvement when it comes to the interface. Cleaning up the buttons and making them more OSX, getting rid of the last brushed-metal look app in the maciverse could only be a good thing. I find it hard to believe this would provoke anyone, as long as the placement and general feel of the interface is not altered.

And while I, like most experienced users, use keyboard shortcuts for a lot of the operations, it is blatantly obvious that buttons and icons are not designed for larger screens with higher resolution. And while I realize that Resolution independence is some way off, a possibility to select between two different icon-sizes in the interface would be a godsend.

[nuckinfutz]

Originally Posted by beast

Dude.... when Apple changed the UI in iMovie 08 there was an uproar.... can you imagine how much flack Apple would take if they changed the FCP UI

Not much I'd guess because whatever changes Apple makes will likely be an improvement over the workflow before it. iMovie 08 drew the most ire because it jettisoned a lot of features from iMovie 06 in order to simply things and move to a whole new codebase.

Final Cut pro likely won't change drastically but Apple will polish the UI. I heard similar complaints about the new Logic Pro 8 but after a while most people had adapted well to the new changes and understood why Apple made them for the most part. We humans are adaptable creatures...doesn't mean we like it.

InkMaster- It's possible a new Final Cut Pro could come this year but after Apple killed 64-bit Carbon it became clear that all of their large apps have to be rewritten in cocoa and FCP certainly would benefit from 64-bit. I think you'll see a more svelte Final Cut Studio (including Color UI improvements) with the next version. You're not the only one looking at FCP and feeling "nostalgic"