iPods - Still #1

MacRumors · 12:30 PM

MacObserver notes that the most recent (November) MP3 Player sales numbers from IDC continues to place the iPod at #1 in overall sales.

The 10GB Apple iPod ($299) reportedly edged out the cheaper 128MB Digitalway ($140) in overall sales, with the remainder of the iPod models also being well represented:

Quote:

1. 10GB iPod ($299)
2. 128MB Digitalway ($140)
3. 20GB iPod ($399)
4. 128MB iRiver ($119.99-$139.99))
5. 40GB iPod ($499)

These numbers only represent November 2003 sales. Holiday sales, as well as the effect of the rumored "Mini" iPods should prove to be interesting.

Grimace · Dec 30, 2003, 12:23 PM

WOW - Every iPod in the TOP 5!

ceriess · Dec 30, 2003, 12:24 PM

But I got a hot tub, so I'm not going to get whiny about it. I'm probably going to just buckle under and buy an iPod during Macworld...Although I'm probably not going to go for the mini.

JohnStrass · Dec 30, 2003, 12:25 PM

So, there is a niche for 4 and 2 GB after all. Apple with those could get a sweep of the top slots!!

Grimace · Dec 30, 2003, 12:26 PM

The current iPods pretty much crap out after being shaken (while running) for like 45 minutes.

would a Flash technology mini-ipod be easier to run with? As in, would it have the same skipping problems??

Steamboatwillie · Dec 30, 2003, 12:29 PM

Go iPod!

nmcphers · Dec 30, 2003, 12:30 PM

No DELL DJ in the top 5?

blueBomber · Dec 30, 2003, 12:30 PM

I can't even imagine the distance that Apple put between them and second place during the holidays. Everyone I know has an ipod now (except me, but that's because I just don't think I would use it that much).

arn · Dec 30, 2003, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by carletonmusic
The current iPods pretty much crap out after being shaken (while running) for like 45 minutes.

would a Flash technology mini-ipod be easier to run with? As in, would it have the same skipping problems??

I have doubts the mini-iPods will be Flash-based.

But yes, flash wouldn't skip.... the biggest problem with Flash-based players is that you will run out of songs to play after 45 minutes... since flash is costly and you don't get as much storage.

arn

Le Big Mac · Dec 30, 2003, 12:40 PM

This ranking is remarkable. The two non-Apple players are totally different beasts--only 128MB. The ipods are 80, 160, 320x as large (although, yes, more expensive). Totally different markets. A 128mb player is good only for short trips, and obviously appeals to the folks who aren't willing/able to put up $300+ for an MP3 player.

As the earlier post points out, apple could have the top 5 slots with reasonably priced 2gb/4gb players. Why pay $150 for 128MB when you can get 2gb of tunes?

Wow.

mrsebastian · Dec 30, 2003, 12:42 PM

"Of most interest in the overall best sellers category was the fact more expensive, high capacity players from Apple dominated the industry group with a smattering of cheaper, smaller capacity players interspersed. "This category alone tells you consumers are very much divided over what they want - cheaper players to play a small number of songs or more expensive players to house the entire library," said Baker."-from the article.

if you consider apple design, larg storage capacity, colors, starting at $99 (guessing), the hot product of the moment, and that apple sold roughly 1 million relatively expensive ipods already, i think apple will make an absolute killing with the minipod!

Lanbrown · Dec 30, 2003, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by carletonmusic
The current iPods pretty much crap out after being shaken (while running) for like 45 minutes.

would a Flash technology mini-ipod be easier to run with? As in, would it have the same skipping problems??

Well, a HD is a mechanical device; flash memory is electronic or solid-state. Flash does have a limit to vibration though, but it's much higher than a HD.

mhouse · Dec 30, 2003, 12:46 PM

The more I hear, the more I think we're going to see a cool, multi-colored flash-based line of iPods. Many people here at MacRumors have already voiced this and I just want to place my bet also.

If you look at this top five list, frankly there doesn't seem to be much of a market for a "mid-level" iPod (the rumored 2 or 4 gb models) along the the lines of a Rio Nitrus. Instead consumers seem to want either a huge HDD based player to take all of their music, or a small flash-based model for more active lifestyles.

The more I read, the more it becomes apparent that Apple could virtually corner the digital music market by releasing a flash-based player.

Of course a 2 gb model for 99 bucks truly would be awesome...just can't imagine how they could pull it off.

JoeRadar · Dec 30, 2003, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by arn
I have doubts the mini-iPods will be Flash-based.

One potential advantage to a Flash-based iPod is that the storage could be easily upgradeable. Buy a 256 MB flash card to start with, and then when you realize how much you like your iPod (or the price of the latest flash drops enough), then you can buy a larger flash card.

I have a Digital Rebel camera which is driving me into the Flash market. I think it would be cool to move cards back and forth between the camera and the iPod as needed.

Dstreelm · Dec 30, 2003, 01:01 PM

I disagree, i think there definatly is a niche for smaller capacity mp3 players. i personally have a 10gb gen 2 ipod, however before i got that around march of 03, i did have a samsung yepp(which was a piece of crap by the way) and my sister got that freaky triangular iriver one. she paid approximatly $150 for that because she didnt need her entire library, she just wanteed something small that she could use at the gym. if you look at the numbers, 2 of the top 5 are these small capacity cheap players because different people have different tastes and use electronics differently. i think its admirable(or at least business savvy) for apple to produce a products which can cater to a person's use of a product. i can tell you for sure that if a 2gb "mini" ipod were on the market when my sister bought her iriver, she would have gotten the ipod.

kubrick · Dec 30, 2003, 01:03 PM

The Daily Telegraph confirms that the mini iPods are coming next week and for only £65

(The journalist thinks that in Apple-land, $100 = £65, but there we go)

This is the first time I have ever seen such a rumour make front page broadsheet news here in the UK. Just goes to show how newsworthy the iPod has been over here this Christmas.

(I saw one for sale at John Lewis in Liverpool yesterday, if anyone's interested

It's the last one in the UK)

ITR 81 · Dec 30, 2003, 01:03 PM

Market Analysts have said this yr is beginning of the end for flash players and next yr will be the beginning of HD players.

Knowing that I doubt Apple will use a flash based player unless its used in a phone or something.

I've exercised with my iPod on for over and hr and never had it crap out on me.
This includes running, jumping rope, biking and such..

bignumbers · Dec 30, 2003, 01:04 PM

Impressive placement. Obviously Apple is blowing away the real competition (I don't consider a 128K flash player competition; it's a completely different product).

I think the mini ipod will be HD-based. If the choice is a 512MB flash or 2GB HD for the same price (say, $80-$100 in bulk, for a $150-$200 iPod), Apple will go with the HD. Apple makes high-end products with high costs and margins. I don't see Apple intentionally getting into a price war with low-cost commodities.

ITR 81 · Dec 30, 2003, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JoeRadar
One potential advantage to a Flash-based iPod is that the storage could be easily upgradeable. Buy a 256 MB flash card to start with, and then when you realize how much you like your iPod (or the price of the latest flash drops enough), then you can buy a larger flash card.

I have a Digital Rebel camera which is driving me into the Flash market. I think it would be cool to move cards back and forth between the camera and the iPod as needed.

They already have this. It's called a Photo reader. It maybe slow but I'm sure a faster one will come about next yr.

If you got Rebel then you should've just gotten a 1GB card. Because I don't want to change out every 10 pics or so.

SiliconAddict · Dec 30, 2003, 01:11 PM

Since the other newer hard drive based devices were released in October/November I would expect ZERO impact by them. Even on Christmas/holiday sales I'd expect little impact since few people know about them yet. I'm predicting that the Dell device is going to start off in the top 10. Grab one of the top five by summer and from there it’s all up to apple, their mini-iPod gambit, and how well they sell iTMS this spring/summer. The McDonalds/Pepsi promos should drastically increase user awareness of iTMS and as a result the iPod. Apple has one huge advantage over Dell. Retail outlets for sales.
I really believe that Dell will eventually take this road once they realize they aren’t getting as many sales as they could if they used brick and mortar shops. My point is don’t get cocky just yet. Let me know how the iPod is doing November of 2004 and then you can start gloating.

Powerbook G5 · Dec 30, 2003, 01:14 PM

I am surprised the the iPod is doing so well with it's relatively high price tag compared to much of the competition, but that's wonderful. I have been holding off on getting one because I am unwilling to spend $300+ on an iPod with a massive capacity when I only have about a gig worth of songs, so I don't need to pay a premium for 10's of gigs of storage.

JoeRadar · Dec 30, 2003, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dstreelm
I disagree, i think there definatly is a niche for smaller capacity mp3 players.

I don't see any problems with Apple trying to sew up every market segment - small memory-based players geared towards athletes, entry level 2-4 GB HD-based solutions for people who want to try iPods but not spend $300, and then the high-end models with 20-60 GB of storage for the serious audio fan (I have lots of books in addition to music on mine).

The more Apple can expand the market, make more money, expand mind-share, bring people into the iTunes and iTMS fold, and get people to think Apple is cool, the better it will be for Apple and Apple fans.

dongmin · Dec 30, 2003, 01:17 PM

Looking at the top five, the sweet spot seems to be $150 for the low end. If Apple can get a 512MB flash-based player for $149, why would people buy anything else.

We'll see. I'm dobutful Apple will do a flash-based player. And if it's HD-based, I think we're looking at $199 for entry, maybe $169 if we're lucky.

$169 - 2GB
$219 - 4GB
$269 - 10GB
$329 - 20GB
$399 - 40GB

My guess is that Dec. numbers will be somewhat different. I think Creative and Dell made much more of a marketing push in December. But then again, Apple probably owned the HD-based player market.

JoeRadar · Dec 30, 2003, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ITR 81
They already have this. It's called a Photo reader. It maybe slow but I'm sure a faster one will come about next yr.

If you got Rebel then you should've just gotten a 1GB card. Because I don't want to change out every 10 pics or so.

I looked at transferring pictures to my iPod, but it still looked too clunky out in the field. I still carry my laptop with me, so in the evening I use iPhoto to store daily pictures on my laptop.

BTW, Apple should really promote the laptops and iPhoto for tourists. Great combination.

(With Jpeg compression, a 256 MB card holds about 100 pictures for the 6 megapixel camera.)

Ling · Dec 30, 2003, 01:29 PM

I agree. There is no reason for Apple to go with Flash. It doesn't mesh well with high-end or simplicity...imagine having 10 cards to sort through, even if each one had a different playlist.

However, I remembered reading a while back that a start-up had designed a cheaper and simpler 1 inch hard drive.

"The 1.5 GB drive, which has been in volume manufacturing since mid-April, sells for $65 in quantities of 10,000. The company is aiming for $50." - http://news.com.com/2100-1041-1012235.html

With a $50 drive, Apple may be able to stick an iPod together and still make a profit selling at $99. Even at $125-150, these would blow away the low end market.

Dec 30, 2003, 12:23 PM	#2
Grimace Contributor Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: with Hamburglar.	WOW - Every iPod in the TOP 5! __________________ Canon 1Ds Mk III • Canon 5D MkII 16-35mm f/2.8L II • 24-70mm f/2.8L • 70-200mm f/2.8L IS 50mm f/1.2L • 85mm f/1.2L • 135mm f/2L • 300mm f/2.8L IS

Dec 30, 2003, 12:24 PM	#3
ceriess macrumors newbie Join Date: Oct 2003	I didn't get an iPod for Christmas But I got a hot tub, so I'm not going to get whiny about it. I'm probably going to just buckle under and buy an iPod during Macworld...Although I'm probably not going to go for the mini.

Dec 30, 2003, 12:25 PM	#4
JohnStrass macrumors member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Miami, USA	cool So, there is a niche for 4 and 2 GB after all. Apple with those could get a sweep of the top slots!! __________________ In 2000, Michael Dell gave Bush and the reckless republicans $266,000 (Just behind Ken Lay of Enron). Yet another reason to buy a Mac

Dec 30, 2003, 12:26 PM	#5
Grimace Contributor Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: with Hamburglar.	The current iPods pretty much crap out after being shaken (while running) for like 45 minutes. would a Flash technology mini-ipod be easier to run with? As in, would it have the same skipping problems?? __________________ Canon 1Ds Mk III • Canon 5D MkII 16-35mm f/2.8L II • 24-70mm f/2.8L • 70-200mm f/2.8L IS 50mm f/1.2L • 85mm f/1.2L • 135mm f/2L • 300mm f/2.8L IS

Dec 30, 2003, 12:29 PM	#6
Steamboatwillie macrumors regular Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Memphis, TN	Go iPod! __________________ 15" PowerBook 1.25gHz/512MB/80GB/Superdrive Just remember, I am not your average idiot.

Dec 30, 2003, 12:30 PM	#7
nmcphers macrumors newbie Join Date: Dec 2003	What? No Dell DJ No DELL DJ in the top 5?

Dec 30, 2003, 12:30 PM	#8
blueBomber macrumors regular Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Minneapolis, MN	I can't even imagine the distance that Apple put between them and second place during the holidays. Everyone I know has an ipod now (except me, but that's because I just don't think I would use it that much). __________________ "I am a ninja. My life is lonely and difficult." "Fry to the rain forest and save the nature!" "Yes Sir!" - a Neo Geo Classic

Dec 30, 2003, 12:40 PM	#10
Le Big Mac macrumors 68010 Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Washington, DC	Nothing in same market segment beats it This ranking is remarkable. The two non-Apple players are totally different beasts--only 128MB. The ipods are 80, 160, 320x as large (although, yes, more expensive). Totally different markets. A 128mb player is good only for short trips, and obviously appeals to the folks who aren't willing/able to put up $300+ for an MP3 player. As the earlier post points out, apple could have the top 5 slots with reasonably priced 2gb/4gb players. Why pay $150 for 128MB when you can get 2gb of tunes? Wow.

Dec 30, 2003, 12:42 PM	#11
mrsebastian macrumors 6502a Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: sunny san diego	"Of most interest in the overall best sellers category was the fact more expensive, high capacity players from Apple dominated the industry group with a smattering of cheaper, smaller capacity players interspersed. "This category alone tells you consumers are very much divided over what they want - cheaper players to play a small number of songs or more expensive players to house the entire library," said Baker."-from the article. if you consider apple design, larg storage capacity, colors, starting at $99 (guessing), the hot product of the moment, and that apple sold roughly 1 million relatively expensive ipods already, i think apple will make an absolute killing with the minipod! __________________ [ding]

Dec 30, 2003, 12:46 PM	#13
mhouse macrumors member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: North Carolina	The More I Hear... The more I hear, the more I think we're going to see a cool, multi-colored flash-based line of iPods. Many people here at MacRumors have already voiced this and I just want to place my bet also. If you look at this top five list, frankly there doesn't seem to be much of a market for a "mid-level" iPod (the rumored 2 or 4 gb models) along the the lines of a Rio Nitrus. Instead consumers seem to want either a huge HDD based player to take all of their music, or a small flash-based model for more active lifestyles. The more I read, the more it becomes apparent that Apple could virtually corner the digital music market by releasing a flash-based player. Of course a 2 gb model for 99 bucks truly would be awesome...just can't imagine how they could pull it off.

Dec 30, 2003, 01:01 PM	#15
Dstreelm macrumors member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Blacksburg during school and Philadelphia during summer	I disagree, i think there definatly is a niche for smaller capacity mp3 players. i personally have a 10gb gen 2 ipod, however before i got that around march of 03, i did have a samsung yepp(which was a piece of crap by the way) and my sister got that freaky triangular iriver one. she paid approximatly $150 for that because she didnt need her entire library, she just wanteed something small that she could use at the gym. if you look at the numbers, 2 of the top 5 are these small capacity cheap players because different people have different tastes and use electronics differently. i think its admirable(or at least business savvy) for apple to produce a products which can cater to a person's use of a product. i can tell you for sure that if a 2gb "mini" ipod were on the market when my sister bought her iriver, she would have gotten the ipod. __________________ "Dont call your mother, dont call your preist, dont call your doctor, call the police, you bring the razor blades, ill bring the speed, take off your coat, it gonna be a long night!" from "its gonna be a long night" off the "Quebec" album by Ween

Dec 30, 2003, 01:03 PM	#16
kubrick macrumors newbie Join Date: Sep 2003	The Daily Telegraph confirms The Daily Telegraph confirms that the mini iPods are coming next week and for only £65 (The journalist thinks that in Apple-land, $100 = £65, but there we go) This is the first time I have ever seen such a rumour make front page broadsheet news here in the UK. Just goes to show how newsworthy the iPod has been over here this Christmas. (I saw one for sale at John Lewis in Liverpool yesterday, if anyone's interested It's the last one in the UK)

Dec 30, 2003, 01:03 PM	#17
ITR 81 macrumors 65816 Join Date: Oct 2003	Market Analysts have said this yr is beginning of the end for flash players and next yr will be the beginning of HD players. Knowing that I doubt Apple will use a flash based player unless its used in a phone or something. I've exercised with my iPod on for over and hr and never had it crap out on me. This includes running, jumping rope, biking and such..

Dec 30, 2003, 01:04 PM	#18
bignumbers macrumors regular Join Date: May 2002	Impressive placement. Obviously Apple is blowing away the real competition (I don't consider a 128K flash player competition; it's a completely different product). I think the mini ipod will be HD-based. If the choice is a 512MB flash or 2GB HD for the same price (say, $80-$100 in bulk, for a $150-$200 iPod), Apple will go with the HD. Apple makes high-end products with high costs and margins. I don't see Apple intentionally getting into a price war with low-cost commodities.

Dec 30, 2003, 01:11 PM	#20
SiliconAddict macrumors 601 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Burnsville, Minnesota, USA	Since the other newer hard drive based devices were released in October/November I would expect ZERO impact by them. Even on Christmas/holiday sales I'd expect little impact since few people know about them yet. I'm predicting that the Dell device is going to start off in the top 10. Grab one of the top five by summer and from there it’s all up to apple, their mini-iPod gambit, and how well they sell iTMS this spring/summer. The McDonalds/Pepsi promos should drastically increase user awareness of iTMS and as a result the iPod. Apple has one huge advantage over Dell. Retail outlets for sales. I really believe that Dell will eventually take this road once they realize they aren’t getting as many sales as they could if they used brick and mortar shops. My point is don’t get cocky just yet. Let me know how the iPod is doing November of 2004 and then you can start gloating. __________________ -iPod Video 160GB -MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo 2.33Ghz/3GB RAM/250GB -Newton 4700 (a.k.a iPaq 4700) -Dell 2405FPW 24" Widescreen

Dec 30, 2003, 01:14 PM	#21
Powerbook G5 macrumors 68040 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: St Augustine, FL	I am surprised the the iPod is doing so well with it's relatively high price tag compared to much of the competition, but that's wonderful. I have been holding off on getting one because I am unwilling to spend $300+ on an iPod with a massive capacity when I only have about a gig worth of songs, so I don't need to pay a premium for 10's of gigs of storage. __________________ iMac, therefore, iAm.

Dec 30, 2003, 01:17 PM	#23
dongmin macrumors 68000 Join Date: Jan 2002	Looking at the top five, the sweet spot seems to be $150 for the low end. If Apple can get a 512MB flash-based player for $149, why would people buy anything else. We'll see. I'm dobutful Apple will do a flash-based player. And if it's HD-based, I think we're looking at $199 for entry, maybe $169 if we're lucky. $169 - 2GB $219 - 4GB $269 - 10GB $329 - 20GB $399 - 40GB My guess is that Dec. numbers will be somewhat different. I think Creative and Dell made much more of a marketing push in December. But then again, Apple probably owned the HD-based player market.

Dec 30, 2003, 01:29 PM	#25
Ling macrumors member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Oberlin, OH	I agree. There is no reason for Apple to go with Flash. It doesn't mesh well with high-end or simplicity...imagine having 10 cards to sort through, even if each one had a different playlist. However, I remembered reading a while back that a start-up had designed a cheaper and simpler 1 inch hard drive. "The 1.5 GB drive, which has been in volume manufacturing since mid-April, sells for $65 in quantities of 10,000. The company is aiming for $50." - http://news.com.com/2100-1041-1012235.html With a $50 drive, Apple may be able to stick an iPod together and still make a profit selling at $99. Even at $125-150, these would blow away the low end market. __________________ -Ling "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate..."

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