Obama Calls for Military Draft & Required Service

[Aranince]

http://wsws.org/articles/2008/sep2008/obam-s13.shtml

Originally Posted by wsws.org

In remarks that clearly pointed toward the restoration of the military draft under an Obama administration, the Democratic candidate said Thursday night that his job as president would include demanding that the American people recognize an “obligation” for military service. “If we are going into war, then all of us go, not just some,” Senator Barack Obama declared.

http://www.hithimagain.com/2008/02/0...al-plantation/

Originally Posted by hitinmagain.com

Obama’s pitch was even less reassuring (happens at about 5:40 into the video): “. . . one of the things that I’ve proposed, for example, is that I will give a $4000 tuition credit - every student, every year - so that they are not being loaded up with enormous debts, uh, but there will be a community service - a national service component. The military could be one way for you to get this $4000 tuition credit. Another way would be to work in an under-served school that needs help. Another way would be to work in an under-served hospital or a homeless shelter, or a veterans home. The point is, I think it is important for young people to serve.” This is apparently how he spins his platform of “Requir[ing] 100 Hours of Service in College . . .”

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/service/

Originally Posted by barakobama.com

Expand Service-Learning in Our Nation's Schools: Obama and Biden will set a goal that all middle and high school students do 50 hours of community service a year. They will develop national guidelines for service- learning and will give schools better tools both to develop programs and to document student experience. Green Job Corps: Obama and Biden will create an energy-focused youth jobs program to provide disadvantaged youth with service opportunities weatherizing buildings and getting practical experience in fast-growing career fields.
...
Require 100 Hours of Service in College: Obama and Biden will establish a new American Opportunity Tax Credit that is worth $4,000 a year in exchange for 100 hours of public service a year.

Which goes against...

Originally Posted by 13th Amendment

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime where of the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Service hours are great. I fully encourage people to volunteer their time to the government or to organizations. I am an Eagle Scout and a lot of what we do is volunteer to help out. What I don't like is the federal government forcing people to volunteer their time. Yes, every school does require students to have service hours(AFAIK), but that is a requirement the school sets, not the government.

Not to mention I have absolutely no idea where he is going to get $4,000 for every student for college...oh wait...taxes.

[Peace]

Please read what you just wrote. If you can't comprehend what he said I'd recommend a course in remedial english comprehension.

There's a difference between involuntary servitude and incentive programs.

[Aranince]

Originally Posted by Peace

Please read what you just wrote. If you can't comprehend what he said I'd recommend a course in remedial english comprehension.

There's a difference between involuntary servitude and incentive programs.

You mean...?

Obama and Biden will set a goal that all middle and high school students do 50 hours of community service a year...

EDIT: ah, I see what your saying.

[madfresh]

I think you're understanding this wrong. It sounds as if you get rewards/incentives in return for service, not government forcing one to serve.

[scotthayes]

why not, let's see how many wars they start when it's the rich folks kids having to go and fight them.

[Aranince]

Originally Posted by madfresh

I think you're understanding this wrong. It sounds as if you get rewards/exchange in return for service, not government forcing one to serve.

Well it says require 100 hours, but you get $4k in exchange. Its still required by the government, whether you get something or not.

[Peace]

Originally Posted by scotthayes

why not, let's see how many wars they start when it's the rich folks kids having to go and fight them.

Exactly!

[yoppie]

Reading is fundamental.

[leekohler]

Originally Posted by madfresh

I think you're understanding this wrong. It sounds as if you get rewards/exchange in return for service, not government forcing one to serve.

Well- when you can't run on the issues, make something up!

[yoppie]

Originally Posted by Aranince

Well it says require 100 hours, but you get $4k in exchange. Its still required by the government, whether you get something or not.

You switched the order. He's saying that he is willing to give students a $4,000 tuition credit to keep their loan debt low. But in order to get it, you have to get off your lazy ass and volunteer someplace or go into the military. He's not going to hand it to you for free.

You don't want the credit, fine, sit at home and rack up student loan debt or better yet pay for it without loans.

[Aranince]

Originally Posted by yoppie

You switched the order. He's saying that he is willing to give students a $4,000 tuition credit to keep their loan debt low. But in order to get it, you have to get off your lazy ass and volunteer someplace or go into the military. He's not going to hand it to you for free.

You don't want the credit, fine, sit at home and rack up student loan debt or better yet pay for it without loans.

I understand what your saying. If that' true(in which I would agree), he should change the headline or whatever its called to not say "Require 100 Hours of Service in College."


Anyway, at least I tried and cited sources...if it counts for anything.

[Raid]

Well the details are a little sparse in all the quotes, a student getting $40/hour probably sounds pretty good for a student. Also these jobs (arguably) add to the level of service in needy public institutions; which would at least partial offset the tax increase to cover the program. There's also the added benefit of increasing access to higher learning.

The draft program quote really seems incomplete. The quote above makes it sound like Obama would start a draft program, however there's this nasty little "If" at the start of that sentence that indicates there's something more in his thinking that wasn't provided here.

But whatever, it's not like I think I'm actually going to change anyone's mind by pointing out the obvious.

[Peace]

Although it's been seen as wrong by many generations there are a lot of western countries that require military service.

I personally believe in military service being a veteran. Or if you choose to not do military service do something else to help YOUR country..

In this time of world-wide turmoil citizens need to get off their asses and help instead of being afraid.

[yoppie]

Originally Posted by Aranince

I understand what your saying. If that' true(in which I would agree), he should change the headline or whatever its called to not say "Require 100 Hours of Service in College."


Anyway, at least I tried and cited sources...if it counts for anything.

Providing sources is good but it's not enough. You need to also read and comprehend beyond the headline.

The 100 hours of service will be required for those who take advantage of the American Opportunity Tax Credit. If you want the credit, you will be required to volunteer. Nothing difficult to understand about that.

Require 100 Hours of Service in College: Obama and Biden will establish a new American Opportunity Tax Credit that is worth $4,000 a year in exchange for 100 hours of public service a year.

It's like your boss saying I will pay you X amount for X hours of work. If you want to get paid, you need to work.

[leekohler]

I take it this would also do away with "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"?

[Aranince]

Originally Posted by yoppie

Providing sources is good but it's not enough. You need to also read and comprehend.

The 100 hours of service will be required for those who take advantage of the American Opportunity Tax Credit. If you want the credit, you will be required to volunteer. Nothing difficult to understand about that.

Require 100 Hours of Service in College: Obama and Biden will establish a new American Opportunity Tax Credit that is worth $4,000 a year in exchange for 100 hours of public service a year.

It's like your boss saying I will pay you X amount for X hours of work. If you want to get paid, you need to work.

Ok, I understand. But hey...all this is teaching me is to do better research before I come to the table.

[dukebound85]

isnt this discrimination by class in effect


what im saying is that this program has nooooo incentive to those well off as they dont need the money for school and what not but rather aims at those lower in class standing were it seems like a good deal


reminds me of that thread about LA offering to tie tubes for free and how members there were outraged at it being aimed at african americans since they were poor

[hobbbz]

Basically I understand it as this: a better GI bill that you can also qualify for without serving in the military. You serve your community in another way to get the money.

[Ugg]

Originally Posted by dukebound85

isnt this discrimination by class in effect

what im saying is that this program has nooooo incentive to those well off as they dont need the money for school and what not but rather aims at those lower in class standing were it seems like a good deal

Who is going to pass up free money? Maybe the 4% of Americans who, at least until recently, held the vast majority of the nation's wealth?

In other words, this targets 96% of the population. Hardly discriminatory.

[mactastic]

Originally Posted by Aranince

Which goes against...

So the Vietnam draft was unconstitutional, and all those who evaded it were the real patriots?

Not to mention I have absolutely no idea where he is going to get $4,000 for every student for college...oh wait...taxes.

Taxes are where ALL government spending comes from. Except for the stuff we borrow, but even that has to get paid back with taxes eventually. How is McCain going to pay for the next 100 or 1000 years of the Iraq war... oh wait... taxes! How are we funding the war in Iraq right now? Oh wait... taxes! How is Sarah Palin going to fund her bridge to nowhere? Oh wait... taxes! Where is $700,000,000,000 going to come from to bail out Wall Street? Oh wait... borrowing, then taxes! And so on and so forth...

[abiyng87]

Originally Posted by dukebound85

reminds me of that thread about LA offering to tie tubes for free and how members there were outraged at it being aimed at african americans since they were poor

When volunteering in the community results in people being sterilized get back to me...

[tMac85]

Originally Posted by Peace

Although it's been seen as wrong by many generations there are a lot of western countries that require military service.

I personally believe in military service being a veteran. Or if you choose to not do military service do something else to help YOUR country..

In this time of world-wide turmoil citizens need to get off their asses and help instead of being afraid.

please....

yeah get off our asses? Like all of us are just sitting here? With out us there would be no need for a president or war. WE are running this nation. The President is just telling us how to.

Just because someone doesnt want to risk their life for others makes them no less of a person. I would never tell anyone i care about/ family member to go risk their life on behalf of mine. i would rather spend every moment with them completely miserable then not at all.

however i completely appreciate the men and women that do. they do things i could never do, and i respect them greatly.

[Cleverboy]

I read the thread title and thought, "What?" Then I noticed all the same policies I'd been reading for the last several months, being severely misunderstood and taken out of context. Sigh. I can't imagine all the other forums stories like this get posted at, that don't have as communicative, well-informed and thoughtful posters to debunk them clearly and correctly.

I was just reading about the money going into an e-mail effort to smear Obama as a radical Muslim... then I see stories like this spread by, I assume, misguided alarmists... and I'm not surprised this election is so close.

~ CB

[.Andy]

Originally Posted by dukebound85

isnt this discrimination by class in effect

what im saying is that this program has nooooo incentive to those well off as they dont need the money for school and what not but rather aims at those lower in class standing were it seems like a good deal

I'm rich and I couldn't agree more. I regularly drop $1500 on dinner and a bottle of wine. There's no way I would make my kid do community service for a mere $4000 off his tuition fees. I'd just pay up front for his degree with with cash.

[Cleverboy]

I read the thread title and thought, "What?" Then I noticed all the same policies I'd been reading for the last several months, being severely misunderstood and taken out of context. Sigh. I can't imagine all the other forums stories like this get posted at, that don't have as communicative, well-informed and thoughtful posters to debunk them clearly and correctly.

I was just reading about the money going into an e-mail effort to smear Obama as a radical Muslim... then I see stories like this spread by, I assume, misguided alarmists... and I'm not surprised this election is so close.

Originally Posted by Peace

Although it's been seen as wrong by many generations there are a lot of western countries that require military service.

I personally believe in military service being a veteran. Or if you choose to not do military service do something else to help YOUR country..

In this time of world-wide turmoil citizens need to get off their asses and help instead of being afraid.

Bravo. I'm stung by the amount of people that call themselves "patriots" for trafficing in smears and lies about people different from them. I'm irritated by those that don't show any real interest in pitching in to making this country great. I'm just as happy for McCain volunteers as Obama volunteers, at least in principle. I agree with Obama's comment that our Democracy is strongest when we have the most participation in how we elect our leaders.

Originally Posted by tMac85

please....

yeah get off our asses? Like all of us are just sitting here? With out us there would be no need for a president or war. WE are running this nation. The President is just telling us how to.

Just because someone doesnt want to risk their life for others makes them no less of a person. I would never tell anyone i care about/ family member to go risk their life on behalf of mine. i would rather spend every moment with them completely miserable then not at all.

however i completely appreciate the men and women that do. they do things i could never do, and i respect them greatly.

You don't "respect" them by sitting ON YOUR ASS. You "respect" them by playing your own part, whatever form that may take. Unless "respect" takes on physical form, it is an empty platitude. Even "faith" (never mind "respect") without works is DEAD.

~ CB