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Old Oct 16, 2008, 03:31 PM   #1
Scott6666
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Old MBP. Do we get the 4 finger swipe as well???

So I've seen the new 4 finger swiping on the new MBP's at the store.

Will we older MBP owners (early 2008 Penryn) get this in a software update or not?

The store manager said no, then maybe, then not really sure.

Should just be software...
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Old Oct 16, 2008, 03:33 PM   #2
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No you will not get it. It's a hardware thing, not simply software.
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Old Oct 16, 2008, 03:37 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GimmeSlack12 View Post
No you will not get it. It's a hardware thing, not simply software.
If this is true, I can't understand why. First the non-multitouch MBs and MBPs could not get pinching, swiping, etc. even with a software tweak. Then, the early-2008 MBPs do get multitouch with a hardware update. NOW, the multitouch MBPs can't even get added gestures to the existing multitouch hardware? Insane.
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Old Oct 16, 2008, 05:09 PM   #4
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If this is true, I can't understand why.
Its the same reason why a 1995 BMW 325i has less horsepower than a 2005 BMW 325i. It's different hardware. What's hard to understand about that?
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Old Oct 16, 2008, 06:17 PM   #5
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if its different hardware then why does the hardly updated 17" MBP now include 4 finger support
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Old Oct 16, 2008, 07:19 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by blimeyoriley View Post
if its different hardware then why does the hardly updated 17" MBP now include 4 finger support
Gimme, that's a rather good point...
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Old Oct 16, 2008, 07:33 PM   #7
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if it was merely software don't you think someone would have made software to do just that? btw...where does it say the current 17" model has four finger gestures?
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Old Oct 16, 2008, 08:03 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by rychencop View Post
if it was merely software don't you think someone would have made software to do just that? btw...where does it say the current 17" model has four finger gestures?
Multiclutch

It's not quite their yet, but as long as you have the hardware I'd think it would/ could support four fingers.

Not really too helpful, but I brought up this same discussion here.

Maybe someone should email the multiclutch guy and see what he thinks?
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Old Oct 16, 2008, 11:58 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GimmeSlack12 View Post
Its the same reason why a 1995 BMW 325i has less horsepower than a 2005 BMW 325i. It's different hardware. What's hard to understand about that?
What's hard to understand about it is why Apple would be calculatingly forward-thinking enough to incrementally and exclusively enable such subtle distinctions as the advancement from three finger gestures to four finger gestures. A new engine should presumably be more advanced, and therefore should perform better. But while moving from three to four finger gestures is an advancement, is is not out of line to presume that this does not necessarily require a better tackpad in terms of actual ability. If the jump from two finger scrolling to multitouch gesture capability was supposedly an all-or-nothing advancement, why shouldn't we expect an incremental gesture change to be added/addable to the the existing, advanced multitouch trackpads in the previous MacBook Pro/Air?
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Old Oct 17, 2008, 12:01 AM   #10
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When two finger scrolling was introduced, it was not enabled on pre-existing machines, yet a third party hack (iScroll2) enabled it perfectly on older machines. It is not unreasonable to assume the existing hardware is capable of these new gestures.
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Old Oct 17, 2008, 12:08 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by rychencop View Post
if it was merely software don't you think someone would have made software to do just that? btw...where does it say the current 17" model has four finger gestures?
Here about halfway down the page under "Input".
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Old Oct 17, 2008, 12:09 AM   #12
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Why extend new features to old computers when you can advertise your new computers as having enhanced multitouch? I doubt its a hardware thing, though that's certainly possible, but Apple isn't going to just give away features if they think they can convince people to buy a new laptop (or push people closer to buying a new laptop) by billing 4-finger rather than 3-finger gestures. Its a business thing, nothing more.
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Old Oct 17, 2008, 12:28 AM   #13
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Here about halfway down the page under "Input".
very interesting...

Solid-state trackpad with Multi-Touch gesture support for precise cursor control; supports two-finger scrolling, pinch, rotate, three-finger swipe, four-finger swipe, tap, double-tap, and drag capabilities
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Old Oct 17, 2008, 03:07 AM   #14
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Well, my new 17" is on the UPS van, this morning out for delivery. So when it arrives, I will give it a try and let you all know.
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Old Oct 17, 2008, 03:11 AM   #15
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Well, my new 17" is on the UPS van, this morning out for delivery. So when it arrives, I will give it a try and let you all know.
When you get it, can you locate the updated trackpad driver and send it to us?
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Old Oct 17, 2008, 03:29 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMC-12 View Post
First the non-multitouch MBs and MBPs could not get pinching, swiping, etc. even with a software tweak. Then, the early-2008 MBPs do get multitouch with a hardware update. NOW, the multitouch MBPs can't even get added gestures to the existing multitouch hardware? Insane.
1. The non-multitouch MB and MBPs couldn't get any gestures due to hardware design, so Apple wasn't screwing you over. They really couldn't do it.

2. With every MBP, and now MB, with multi-touch, it is definitely just a software issue. The build of OS X that you receive in your box is actually designed for the exact MB model you own. Apple has been doing this for years and years, although in many cases, someone has grabbed the OS X included with one Mac, and used it on another. I reinstalled OSX onto a friend's MacBook, despite my MacBook being 18 months newer than hers.

In fact, the new MBPs include an OS X DVD that doesn't work in the older MBPs.
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Old Oct 17, 2008, 03:40 AM   #17
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When you get it, can you locate the updated trackpad driver and send it to us?
Well at the moment I am using mu 17" MBP 2.5 BTO that arrived yesterday, it has not got the 4 finger swipe and came with 10.5.4. So it will be interesting to see when I get my new updated 17" arrive. I will see if there is any difference. Does anyone know where the drivers would be. I will a side by side of the more about mac.
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Old Oct 17, 2008, 03:49 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abstract View Post
1. The non-multitouch MB and MBPs couldn't get any gestures due to hardware design, so Apple wasn't screwing you over. They really couldn't do it.

2. With every MBP, and now MB, with multi-touch, it is definitely just a software issue. The build of OS X that you receive in your box is actually designed for the exact MB model you own. Apple has been doing this for years and years, although in many cases, someone has grabbed the OS X included with one Mac, and used it on another. I reinstalled OSX onto a friend's MacBook, despite my MacBook being 18 months newer than hers.

In fact, the new MBPs include an OS X DVD that doesn't work in the older MBPs.
Regarding point #1, I knew that it was a hardware issue, hence the words "could not" rather than simply "did not."
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Old Oct 17, 2008, 03:40 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by blimeyoriley View Post
if its different hardware then why does the hardly updated 17" MBP now include 4 finger support
Yes it is a good point. I know I'm brief with my logic on this issue, but I agree with one of the other posts here that if it were possible, it'd be done (multi-touch). Perhaps one of the hardly updates to the 17" was the new trackpad.

I am no expert on touchpads, and know quite little about how they work. But from a technical guessing standpoint I would imagine that trackpads work in a similar fashion to touch screens (change in electrical resistance creates input). If this is the case then more advanced hardware would be able to track multiple touches, therefore my reasoning behind my hardware argument.
In older trackpads (and touchscreens) two fingers would still only register one touch.
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Old Oct 17, 2008, 03:45 PM   #20
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if its different hardware then why does the hardly updated 17" MBP now include 4 finger support
I looked at an updated 17" last night and there was no 4 finger support in the system prefs section.
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Old Oct 17, 2008, 05:14 PM   #21
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Nope there is not, I will be speaking to apple sales about this. False advertising.
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Old Oct 17, 2008, 05:23 PM   #22
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Lol

1st the hardware is capable cause in linux u can use up to 10 fingers... I test it
and 2nd the macbook AIR didn't change the TRACKPAD it has the old one not the glass one and it has the 4 finger thing-gesture... So Steve Jobs just wants u to buy the new one even if the old is capable but u can wait until someone build a cracked version of the new drivers.... MAIL ME IF U HAVE ANY QUESTIONS
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Old Oct 17, 2008, 05:28 PM   #23
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1st the hardware is capable cause in linux u can use up to 10 fingers... I test it
That sure sounds practical...
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Old Oct 17, 2008, 05:29 PM   #24
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If the hardware is capable of registering multi-touch (or even 10 fingers), does anyone know of any third party work to enable 4-finger swipe? what about manipulating even older trackpads (last gen-macbooks)?

ADD: here's your demonstration of 11 fingers registered on a macbook pro using linux. this is using the newer, 3 finger multitouch hardware, i believe. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeLUxsvIVuU

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Old Oct 17, 2008, 09:25 PM   #25
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It is completely possible. Someone post the drivers so we can look at them.
The PrefPane too while your at it



The extension is appropriately named AppleUSBMultitouch.kext.

Also AppleUSBTopCase.kext just in case.

Last edited by dggraphics; Oct 17, 2008 at 09:45 PM. Reason: more info
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