"Psystar slaps Apple around, releases Mac clones with Blu-ray / GeForce 9800GT"

[belvdr]

Originally Posted by ryanplusplus

But how do you explain the comparison to the m1330, though? Like I said, Apple won't compare favorably to any old computer because they don't offer low end machines.

Plus, even if the build quality isn't important to you, it's important to a lot of people.

I don't have to explain the comparison to the m1330; I didn't bring it up. I believe my 1525 is close enough to the MB. Do I think the m1330 is worth it? No way! You gain some features with the MB, and you gain some with the 1525. At what point does one say, "Oh that's too far different." Evidently, to some here, it is way too different. It my mind it's not that different at all.

I'm not so sure the build quality of the Dell is that bad. Granted I haven't had it that long, but it seems like a solid machine. Of course, that's not quantifiable.

[belvdr]

Originally Posted by Trip.Tucker

Which brands, models, chipsets. Firmware revisions, etc. You still aren't providing the required information to make a fair and balanced comparison.

I'm at Dell BIOS version A13, does that help make it fair? As for the firmware revisions on either a MB or my Dell, is it really going to make a difference? Come on, you are just going overboard now just looking for reasons. Nobody else has even mentioned those types of details, and have already concluded the MB is superior. Why aren't you drilling them?

Did you ask about the m1330 chipsets and firmware? No, because you're trying very hard to prove that Apple's hardware is worth what they charge.

I gave plenty of details, so you can come to your own conclusion. I've made my conclusion, and whether you choose to agree or disagree is up to you, and makes absolutely no difference to me.

[Eric S.]

Originally Posted by gnasher729

Check out www.groklaw.net . Maybe you'll change your mind.

Yes, I know that the alternative resolution procedure does not preclude the court case from going forward and that the two sides are not bound to accept the outcome of mediation. This article says that the judge ordered the parties to the alternative process. That may be true, but I believe that nonetheless it can be bypassed without much difficulty if one side is determined to go to court. My guess is that Apple is at least willing to explore what a settlement would look like.

[ryanplusplus]

Originally Posted by belvdr

I don't have to explain the comparison to the m1330; I didn't bring it up. I believe my 1525 is close enough to the MB. Do I think the m1330 is worth it? No way! You gain some features with the MB, and you gain some with the 1525. At what point does one say, "Oh that's too far different." Evidently, to some here, it is way too different. It my mind it's not that different at all.

I'm not so sure the build quality of the Dell is that bad. Granted I haven't had it that long, but it seems like a solid machine. Of course, that's not quantifiable.

Right... but you're arguing whether it's worth it to you now. Before you were arguing that Apple uses the same parts as everyone else and charges more. In fact, you restated this in your previous post. This is where the comparison to the m1330 is entirely valid. Regardless of whether it was brought up by you, you can't ignore the fact that it invalidates that argument.

[ryanplusplus]

Originally Posted by belvdr

I'm at Dell BIOS version A13, does that help make it fair? As for the firmware revisions on either a MB or my Dell, is it really going to make a difference? Come on, you are just going overboard now just looking for reasons. Nobody else has even mentioned those types of details, and have already concluded the MB is superior. Why aren't you drilling them?

Did you ask about the m1330 chipsets and firmware? No, because you're trying very hard to prove that Apple's hardware is worth what they charge.

I gave plenty of details, so you can come to your own conclusion. I've made my conclusion, and whether you choose to agree or disagree is up to you, and makes absolutely no difference to me.

Exactly who stated in this argument that the MB was superior?

[DARKJ3DI]

Now if only Apple could release blu-ray Macs. Then psystar will have nothing!!!

[belvdr]

Originally Posted by ryanplusplus

Right... but you're arguing whether it's worth it to you now. Before you were arguing that Apple uses the same parts as everyone else and charges more. In fact, you restated this in your previous post. This is where the comparison to the m1330 is entirely valid. Regardless of whether it was brought up by you, you can't ignore the fact that it invalidates that argument.

Can you tell me exactly what CPU is in the MB? I still believe Apple is ripping buyer's off. Why charge the same if the don't have the R&D involved in CPU and chipset now?

EDIT: Found it. MB has P7350 with 1M more of cache and higher FSB.

Originally Posted by ryanplusplus

Exactly who stated in this argument that the MB was superior?

You're kidding, right? You voted with your money, no?

[Eric S.]

Originally Posted by DARKJ3DI

Now if only Apple could release blu-ray Macs. Then psystar will have nothing!!!

Except an inexpensive midrange tower, which Apple will never make.

[kleo]

As a mac purest I have been reading the pages of MacRumors for some time now. I must say that I am personally appalled that MacRumors would stoop to a new low and accept advertising $ from pystar.

The path the funding follows could be some what convoluted though google but MacRumors is indeed promoting Pystar products by allowing there advertisements to adorn the top of there pages. This is of upmost outrage to a loyal viewer who felt MacRumors would always side with Apple not Pystar.

MacRumors you should be ashamed of yourself, selling out, for of all people; PYSTAR!!!

[sprice25]

can you buy AppleCare for this computer?

[Bubba Satori]

Originally Posted by BRLawyer

And yes, I truly hope Apple crushes these free-riders with the iron fist of the law.

[ryanplusplus]

Originally Posted by belvdr

Can you tell me exactly what CPU is in the MB? I still believe Apple is ripping buyer's off. Why charge the same if the don't have the R&D involved in CPU and chipset now?

EDIT: Found it. MB has P7350 with 1M more of cache and higher FSB.



You're kidding, right? You voted with your money, no?

I did, but I voted with my money because it was better for me and my tastes. This is vastly different from me arguing that it is a superior machine in all cases. Regardless, you're misrepresenting other arguments and whether it's superior or not still has zero bearing on the argument you made about whether Apple was using standard parts and charging more than other vendors.

[belvdr]

Originally Posted by sprice25

can you buy AppleCare for this computer?

Good question, but I doubt you can.

[ryanplusplus]

Originally Posted by sprice25

can you buy AppleCare for this computer?

I'd love to see someone try.

[wildmannz]

Originally Posted by ChrisA

Criminals? Not one jurisdiction has charged them with a crime, not one. Apple took them to civil court but it seems Apple has backed off and is using a private means to settle.

I have said all along that Apple has a LOT more to loose then Psystar. If Apple looses they get their entire EULA thing invalidated. If Psystar loses, well they have no assets, nothing to loose. Notice that Apple backed off on the suit. Going to court is always a gamble Gambling is not good when the stakes are so uneven, notice how Apple has moved away from the civil court action.

Neither party has backed off the lawsuit.
They are both obliged to try to settle this in other ways - and that's what they are doing.
Just watch - it will reach court in due course. Neither of these paries will let this one go quietly.

[corinhorn]

Originally Posted by kleo

As a mac purest I have been reading the pages of MacRumors for some time now. I must say that I am personally appalled that MacRumors would stoop to a new low and accept advertising $ from pystar.

The path the funding follows could be some what convoluted though google but MacRumors is indeed promoting Pystar products by allowing there advertisements to adorn the top of there pages. This is of upmost outrage to a loyal viewer who felt MacRumors would always side with Apple not Pystar.

MacRumors you should be ashamed of yourself, selling out, for of all people; PYSTAR!!!

Google chooses which ads to run. Thus google run ads cannot be considered as endorsements.

MacRumors, could however choose to filter ads that they object to, but this is a tedious process.

[belvdr]

Originally Posted by ryanplusplus

I did, but I voted with my money because it was better for me and my tastes. This is vastly different from me arguing that it is a superior machine in all cases. Regardless, you're misrepresenting other arguments and whether it's superior or not still has zero bearing on the argument you made about whether Apple was using standard parts and charging more than other vendors.

Okay, then why did you ask me for specs on my 1525 if you don't think the MB is a superior machine. I highly doubt anyone was asking just so they can see if they paid too much.

If I construed that I think Apple is charging more than other vendors, then my mistake. I think they are charging too much when compared to the day when they had to develop all of the hardware. Now, they are just picking parts and charging the same. I mean, the only Apple specific parts are the case, trackpad, and screen. Motherboard? Well, they all have to get that designed for their systems.

[ryanplusplus]

Originally Posted by belvdr

Okay, then why did you ask me for specs on my 1525 if you don't think the MB is a superior machine. I highly doubt anyone was asking just so they can see if they paid too much.

If I construed that I think Apple is charging more, then my mistake. I think they are charging too much when compared to the day when they had to develop all of the hardware. Now, they are just picking parts and charging the same.

I asked for your specs so that I could validate your comparison to the MacBook. This is clearly applicable because I need to be able to compare the parts in your machine to the parts in the MB to see if they are comparable (since you compared the two). And, like I said, regardless of whether I think the MB is a superior machine, it has little bearing to your argument of whether Apple is charging too much for the parts it uses.

And even if you think they should charge less based upon the fact that they don't have to develop the hardware, they could easily have choosen higher end parts in order to achieve parity with prices from the PPC days. I don't see how you can really make this comparison without looking at the prices that competitors charge for similar hardware, though, since it's tough to directly compare PPC hardware and Intel hardware from different eras.

Really, if you want to understand the reasoning behind all of this, just realize that Apple has price points they want to hit and they choose the hardware to match that. They don't often choose the hardware and then decide how much that hardware should cost. This is why every single hardware revision costs (roughly) the same as the last. It comes down to how Apple wants to build their brand. Low end hardware damages their BMW-like branding, at least in Steve Job's eyes.

[belvdr]

And that could very well be the case. Either way, I see Apple's offering as less than stellar for the price paid. Guess we'll just disagree on this one. It's obvious we're not getting anywhere on this.

[Voltaic]

If Apple has yet to support Blu-Ray and does not offer a reasonable low price mini tower by the time I need to upgrade, I'm definitely buying a Psystar or other clone.

I am sick and tired of Apple's manipulations and lack of product offerings. Yes, I love Mac OS, but will not continue to buy Mac Pro's only because everything else is lacking.

I am a stock owner by the way, but I resent Apple's manipulations of its customers and lack of product offerings, as well as unacceptable refresh of what they do offer.

As far as I am concerned I will worry about my own self interest when choosing a new "Mac". When ready to upgrade I'll buy a computer that suits my needs, not Apple's.

[ryanplusplus]

Originally Posted by belvdr

And that could very well be the case. Either way, I see Apple's offering as less than stellar for the price paid. Guess we'll just disagree on this one. It's obvious we're not getting anywhere on this.

As I've reiterated many times, I'm not arguing about whether the MB is a good value. I've only argued your statement that Apple charges too much for off-the-shelf parts, yet you show no signs of stopping your attempts to divert the argument.

[belvdr]

Originally Posted by Voltaic

If Apple has yet to support Blu-Ray and does not offer a reasonable low price mini tower by the time I need to upgrade, I'm definitely buying a Psystar or other clone.

I am sick and tired of Apple's manipulations and lack of product offerings. Yes, I love Mac OS, but will not continue to buy Mac Pro's only because everything else is lacking.

I am a stock owner by the way, but I resent Apple's manipulations of its customers and lack of product offerings, as well as unacceptable refresh of what they do offer.

As far as I am concerned I will worry about my own self interest when choosing a new "Mac". When ready to upgrade I'll buy a computer that suits my needs, not Apple's.

That's what I tried to say, but did a horrific job at it.

[belvdr]

Originally Posted by ryanplusplus

As I've reiterated many times, I'm not arguing about whether the MB is a good value. I've only argued your statement that Apple charges too much for off-the-shelf parts, yet you show no signs of stopping your attempts to divert the argument.

I don't see how I was diverting the argument in my last post. It appears you want to argue just for the sake of arguing.

[ryanplusplus]

Originally Posted by belvdr

That's what I tried to say, but did a horrific job at it.

I think we can all agree that it would be nice to have a few more options. Personally I'd love to be able to get my hands on a (no doubt premium priced) OS X netbook. I know I can Hackintosh a Wind, Inspiron Mini, etc., but there's something to be said for not having to deal with that bag of hurt.

Furthermore, I think it sucks that you can't get Apple's 'Pro' feature set in a notebook smaller than 15.4". At least the new MacBooks are a step in the right direction if you aren't looking for Firewire. I'm just glad they threw in semi-decent graphics.

[belvdr]

Originally Posted by ryanplusplus

but there's something to be said for not having to deal with that bag of hurt.

I've wanted to hack a machine, but I agree, what a pain. I guess one man's hurt is another's pleasure.