2009 Formula One Thread

Already? Winter testing has barely started!

Winter has barely started!

Anyone else thinking 'ewwww'

I'm sure I'll get used to it - but is that the best they could do with the new regs?

Saw the Williams, doesn't look as bad as the sketches of the 2009 cars that were made during the 2008 season. Can't wait to see what Ferrari and McLaren can come up with.

As for best driver/team next season. I'll go out and say Alonso/Renault will be the ones to beat. Since most teams are starting all over with the new regulations, drivers developing their cars and giving proper feedback to their engineers and designers will play the biggest role, and Alonso is the one with that experience. Hamilton, Kovalainen, Massa, and even Raikkonen won't come close to helping their teams develop the machinery as well as Alonso can.

Of course if Schumacher is involved with the Ferrari development, then it's a whole other story

I also see Button/Honda as very promising. I still see Button as one of the best in F1, although he loses all motivation when his car isn't performing well, and now Honda, along with Ross Brawn, will have big changes. I just hope they don't find another excuse like they have been doing for the last 2 seasons.

For me, this is how I see the top drivers in F1, I put Schumacher in as the perfect example (my opinion ):

Schumacher: Greatest driver of all time. Motivated, consistent, fast, experienced, and can beat all the odds. He can take a bad car under bad circumstances (weather, starting position, etc.) and still manage to win.

Alonso: He is the only current driver that has similar attributes to Schumacher. He tests the car, develops it, and makes the people who work with him better performers. The fact he was able to win twice this season is enough proof that he is the best of the current drivers. Ferrari will regret passing up the opportunity to sign him in the near future, and BMW will regret not bending over backwards to accommodate whatever contract he was looking for with them.

Raikkonen: He was very fast, but lost touch in the middle of the season. He seems to be the least motivated driver, he has other things in his life that are of more concern than his F1 career. Ferrari can pay him to drive, but they can't pay him to care about making himself and ferrari better. I really disagree with how he's labeled as "Schumacher's Replacement" he really isn't.

Massa: Great driver, very consistent, very fast, BUT I don't recall ever seeing him "beat the odds". If he starts from pole, he most likely will take the win. But if the slightest thing happens to his disadvantage, then it is all over and he suddenly becomes the worst driver in the race. I really have never expected him to win from the second or third row, like I would have from other drivers. An example was in Singapore, he was driving superbly, and then Ferrari screws up his winning chances in the pit lane, after that incident, he rejoins the race as if he was another driver, his driving became terrible.

Hamilton: Excellent driver, there isn't much to say because we have never seen him in a bad F1 car. His only problem is that he's always attempting to chase wins when points are more than enough. He was lucky to get the championship this season. I'm sure he has learned from this season and will drive more strategically next season.

Button: Button to me is one of the best, his problem is that if the car isn't perfect for his taste, he just stops trying. I'm hoping Ross Brawn will make sure the car is perfect for him next season.

I left some drivers out, I'm sure others will comment and add what they feel about these drivers.

I've heard there are going to be some quite interesting rule changes for 2009. Can anyone explain them or post a link to a decent explanation?

M. Malone said:

Button to me is one of the best, his problem is that if the car isn't perfect for his taste, he just stops trying.

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And that for me, is why he's not one of the best. That and he looks pretty ordinary next to Rubens.

I think people have been super, hyper, critical of Hamilton, but it's so easy to forget that he's only just finished his 2nd season, if you can remember Schumacher's or Senna's first seasons in F1, there's very much a train of thought that Hamilton is much more complete as a driver than either of the two that are often regarded as the greatest racing drivers in the history of the sport at the same stage in their careers.

iGav said:

And that for me, is why he's not one of the best. That and he looks pretty ordinary next to Rubens.

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Next season will be Button's defining moment, if he doesn't deliver when the proper car is available, then his F1 career might as well be over.

iGav said:

I think people have been super, hyper, critical of Hamilton, but it's so easy to forget that he's only just finished his 2nd season, if you can remember Schumacher's or Senna's first seasons in F1, there's very much a train of thought that Hamilton is much more complete as a driver than either of the two that are often regarded as the greatest racing drivers in the history of the sport at the same stage in their careers.

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Comparing Hamilton to Senna and Schumacher in their first seasons is really difficult. Schumacher and Senna both started at inferior teams at the time, whereas the McLaren last year and this year was just absolutely perfect in terms of reliability and performance. People criticize Hamilton because they believe someone like him should do better. When the car has no problems, all the driver's weaknesses become very transparent. In comparison to Adrian Sutil, who greatly enjoys the benefit of the doubt. I look forward to seeing how Hamilton can do when McLaren makes a bad car.

Having finally tasted the WC, if but for a few seconds, I think Massa just might be a threat for it in 2009. With Kimi just wallowing, the team's engineers and mechanics might just put their efforts behind Massa because he showed spirit.

Now in his third season and with the monkey off his back, I think Lewis will be a threat, as well.

Alonso could be great, but will Renault be able to step up? They've tasted many world championships as both a engine manufacturer and a constructor, so they certainly have the talent. But Alonso won as much on luck as he did on team strategy and performance.

Lewis Hamilton is using a BB Storm instead of an iPhone3G.
I wonder how much Vodafone had to pay him to go against his will.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OlDy0WKrYA

Does anyone have a URL link to pictures and specs of the 2009 cars?
What specifically is changing on the cars?

defender said:

I've heard there are going to be some quite interesting rule changes for 2009. Can anyone explain them or post a link to a decent explanation?

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Rybold said:

Does anyone have a URL link to pictures and specs of the 2009 cars?
What specifically is changing on the cars?

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Basically, for 2009, there will be big changes to the body work of the cars. Downforce will be greatly reduced. This is done in order to make overtaking easier in F1. At the moment, overtaking is difficult because of all the turbulence the car in front causes for the car following it, so overtaking is rare.

Also, car weight will change in order to accommodate the Kinetic Energy Recovery System (KERS). KERS uses the kinetic energy produced from heat generated by braking which is stored electrically. The driver decides when to use this boost of power. This is really exciting as it will also aid overtaking.

Slick tires will be reintroduced.

Engines are expected to last 3 races as opposed to 2 races. This helps cut costs, especially for the independent teams and I think also shows fine engineering in being able to have such a powerful engine last that long.

Here's a nice detailed Q&A in regards to 2009 F1 Season:

Q&A for 2009

I'm sure others will add whatever I didn't mention.

i think the cars next year will be the ones that we look back twenty years upon and be like wtf were we thinking.

i liked this seasons car styles although the wings are getting a little excessive.

benlangdon said:

i think the cars next year will be the ones that we look back twenty years upon and be like wtf were we thinking.

i liked this seasons car styles although the wings are getting a little excessive.

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I like that. Something I really like about F1 is the technology. A car with a million wings (practically creating it's own wind tunnel), TC, KERS, electronic downshifting, and as much more technology as possible is something I love about F1. Yes, I am disappointed about the [backward] changes.

BUT, the FIA seems to have used F1 time and time again to innovate new technologies for the rest of the car world. And F1 has done a great job. But then as soon as a technology has been perfected, the FIA seems to remove it from F1. Okay, I understand the logic of *using* F1 to innovate new technologies that will benefit the rest of the world and society, BUT why do they have to *remove* anything?

Yes, I LOVE actual "head to head" racing much more than the technology. And yes, removing TC has brought back REAL driving skills and racing and added more action. Yes, and I love that. But I love the technology too. I'm split between the two and it's tough ... but in the end, no-technology good old fashioned racing where the driver matters the most is what I like. ... .... but I love the technology!

(do you share in my frustration?)

.

(M.Malone, thank you for the info and link)

The Power Boost buttons are not being introduced until the 2011 season. If you want to know what Power Boost is like, watch a race of A1GP.

Rybold said:

I like that. Something I really like about F1 is the technology. A car with a million wings (practically creating it's own wind tunnel), TC, KERS, electronic downshifting, and as much more technology as possible is something I love about F1. Yes, I am disappointed about the [backward] changes.

BUT, the FIA seems to have used F1 time and time again to innovate new technologies for the rest of the car world. And F1 has done a great job. But then as soon as a technology has been perfected, the FIA seems to remove it from F1. Okay, I understand the logic of *using* F1 to innovate new technologies that will benefit the rest of the world and society, BUT why do they have to *remove* anything?

Yes, I LOVE actual "head to head" racing much more than the technology. And yes, removing TC has brought back REAL driving skills and racing and added more action. Yes, and I love that. But I love the technology too. I'm split between the two and it's tough ... but in the end, no-technology good old fashioned racing where the driver matters the most is what I like. ... .... but I love the technology!

(do you share in my frustration?)

.

(M.Malone, thank you for the info and link)

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The issue is that all the cars were relying on front wing downforce to get close to the cars in front, but were also creating masses of downforce from the rear wing. The intricate recent wings of recent years led to "dirty air" being pumped backwards from the rear wings disturbing the airflow over following cars made it nigh on impossible too overtake apart from on certain special corners and the Tilke designed long straights/ slow corners/ wide run off circuits. The rear wings have been simplified meaning the airflow should be better, and slick tyres should give increased mechanical grip, allowing overtaking cars to bridge that 0.8second gap that is about as close as they can get at the moment.

R.Youden said:

From Autosport

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I'm not a member of that website and so I can't see the image

Link to the old 2008 Formula One Thread as is customary.

Rybold said:

(do you share in my frustration?)

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i think everyone who watches f1 is like that, well at least i am.

i think they should make every car have min ride clearance of a foot
and twenty inch rims

then we could get some yaw control for all the stupid suv's that flip.

but ya i think the power regenerating thing is great, but its like champ car, they use no2 in there and its lame. very lame.

Here's a look at the new design BMW, looks like something from the early 90s:

The rear wing looks absolutely ridiculous, but if that is what it takes to allow the front wing to work well enough to keep the front wheels from sliding when tucking up under someone to pass, then I'll live with it.

All the pictures of 2009 cars thus far look really bad. The past 2 (my only two) years have looked very technical and necessary. In comparisson these look amateurish, although I know they are anything but.

M. Malone said:

Here's a look at the new design BMW, looks like something from the early 90s:

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wow thats ....... ugly.

whats up with the treaded tires, shouldn't they be practicing with slicks?

Sounds like a lot of teams are starting off with hybrid designs. I guess that way they can account for changes by keeping the tires the same.

Also, looks like Canada isn't happening in 2009. Eccelston wants $23 million paid to him just for 09. Is that really how much each of these venues is paying F1 to allow them to race in their city? Seems backwards if you ask me.

Superman07 said:

Sounds like a lot of teams are starting off with hybrid designs. I guess that way they can account for changes by keeping the tires the same.

Also, looks like Canada isn't happening in 2009. Eccelston wants $23 million paid to him just for 09. Is that really how much each of these venues is paying F1 to allow them to race in their city? Seems backwards if you ask me.

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How much money do you thing an F1 week generates for the host area?

bartelby said:

How much money do you thing an F1 week generates for the host area?

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Apparently not enough to spend $23M to get it?

Heck, even Shanghai is balking at the sanctioning fee they're paying to Bernie and they have some 20 million folks living in the surrounding area. Plus there is Hong Kong not too far away.