Read this if you're from NZ

Nermal · Feb 19, 2004, 12:07 AM

I don't know how long this site's been around for, but please go to http://www.call4change.co.nz and vote. If enough people vote, we might finally get sane broadband pricing

Quote:

This is known as 'local loop unbundling' and it has happened in every other country in the developed world except Mexico.

Doesn't this make us look civilised

(apologies to anyone from Mexico)

HexMonkey · Feb 19, 2004, 12:31 AM

I voted.

It's about time for some decent pricing. A big problem I find is that a lot of programs almost expect that you have a broadband connection and act accordingly, but in New Zealand, most people still have dialup because of the high price of broadband (I was using dialup until last month, now I have a 256 kbps connection with Telstra).

Nermal · Feb 19, 2004, 12:50 AM

Is that cable? I can't get cable where I live (Whakatane) so I'm stuck on 128k DSL

HexMonkey · Feb 19, 2004, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nermal
Is that cable? I can't get cable where I live (Whakatane) so I'm stuck on 128k DSL

Yeah, it is. The option has been available here (Christchurch) for the last year or two. It's a pity you can't get faster than 128k, but it could be worse. About 3 or 4 years ago I was still using a 14.4K modem (with a peak speed of 1.2KB a second)!

Nermal · 02:30 AM

My DSL died the other day so I had to use 56k. I can't stand a connection that slow anymore. It's scary to think that I started off in 1995 with a 4800 bps connection to MSN

Naturally, it didn't take long for me to upgrade to 14.4 (and to switch to a real ISP in the process). I eventually got DSL, back in 2001, and have been waiting for something a bit faster ever since.

Edited for wording (2 days after the original post!)

HexMonkey · Feb 19, 2004, 01:34 AM

I was reminded of the [lack of] speed of slower connections this afternoon when I was downloading a file from a busy server at about 1.3 KB a second. It made we realise me how dependant I've become on cable.

I think that slower connections were more tolerable a few years ago since people were aware that people used them. Websites and programs were both (generally) much smaller than today.

kiwi_the_iwik · Feb 19, 2004, 05:06 AM

Jeez - that bites guys...

As an ex-pat Kiwi (obviously!) I thought it my duty to add my vote to the petition.

128kps broadband?!?

Wow - there's a rumour around that you folks recently acquired motorcars down there a couple of years back, too.

Could you confirm?

Welcome to the 20th Century!

HexMonkey · Feb 19, 2004, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kiwi_the_iwik
Jeez - that bites guys...

As an ex-pat Kiwi (obviously!) I thought it my duty to add my vote to the petition.

128kps broadband?!?

Wow - there's a rumour around that you folks recently acquired motorcars down there a couple of years back, too.

Could you confirm?

Yeah, I just went outside to look. It took me a while, but I found one.

In the main centres we have more options. I think the only ones that are faster than 256 kbps are only aimed at businesses though.

One day will get some decently priced broadband... But by then the rest of the world will have a 256 Mbps connection and pigs will have been genetically modifed so that they can fly.

winmacguy · Feb 20, 2004, 03:17 AM

Well being a JAFA myself, I am only on dial up at the moment but am thinking about getting either Woosh or Jetstream in the not to distant future.

Mac Kiwi · Feb 20, 2004, 04:21 AM

Whoosh wireless is about 300 - 400 to get installed I read,but it has unlimited download for about 60 or 70 bucks,at 256k I think it was.

Telecom must be making an incredible amount of dosh by controling the cables/gouging the customer...

Nermal · Feb 20, 2004, 05:22 AM

They sure are! If you go to their website, their DSL service is called "Xtra JetStream" - they push you onto Xtra unless you specifically tell them otherwise. And Xtra is horrendously expensive, $35 a month for 5 gigs, most ISPs are $30 a month and offer at least 10 gigs.

kiwi_the_iwik · Feb 20, 2004, 06:16 AM

The quicker that the Government deregulates the telecommunications networks over there, the better. In the UK, we had much the same crap, until the monopoly held by BT came to an end.

Still - THEY haven't learned: Their customer service sucks, and their prices are inflated. Thank goodness for competition - there are hordes of ISPs available to pick up the ball which was fumbled by BT...

To see how we do things over here, check out:

www.adslguide.org

and run a cost comparison.

I wish you guys luck down there - you have the infrastructure of fibre optic networks, and the existing copper wire technology is alredy good enough to give bandwidth of up to 8Mb/s...

...so they have NO excuses, really...

HexMonkey · Feb 20, 2004, 02:31 PM

Read the message below (dated 24/12/03). It looks like the decision was made in December that the local loop will not be unbundled

.
I suspect http://www.call4change.co.nz is older than that.

http://lists.ethernal.org/cantlug-0312/msg00523.html

Quote:

It looks like the commerce commission has failed us, the local loop won't
be unbundled.

Nermal · Feb 20, 2004, 05:16 PM

That's correct, everyone was expecting it to be unbundled, but it didn't happen. Call4Change is a new website (opened this month), trying to convince the Govt that it NEEDS to be unbundled.

Opteron · Feb 21, 2004, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nermal
My DSL died the other day so I had to use 56k. I can't stand a connection that slow anymore. It's scary to think that I started off in 1995 with a 4800 bps connection to MSN Naturally, it didn't take long for me to upgrade to 14.4 (and to switch to a real ISP in the process). I got DSL back in 2001 and have been waiting for something a bit faster ever since.

Is satallite avaliable?

Nermal · Feb 21, 2004, 01:59 AM

No, not at a decent price. It's 10c per MB once you hit a certain (low) limit

See here for details, if you dare...

HexMonkey · Feb 21, 2004, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nermal
No, not at a decent price. It's 10c per MB once you hit a certain (low) limit

See here for details, if you dare...

My school was using an iHug satellite last year. It was the most unreliable connection I've ever seen. Basically, it never worked whenever it was cloudy, and the speed when it was working was not sufficient for a school anyway.

kiwi_the_iwik · 03:50 AM

DATA CAP?!?

Well - SCREW THAT!

Sorry guys - they're really nailing you to the wall. Let the revolution begin...

That MUST be against the Geneva Convention, or something. Let the World know - call the UN, Amnesty International, UNICEF...

...or Batman.

It's with stories like this that I remember why I left my beautiful - yet BACKWARD country to seek my fortune afar. Don't these people realise GOOD business sense when they see it? Let's see, now - LOWER the rates, give MORE services, REMOVE the cap - and HEY-PRESTO! LOADS MORE people will sign on the dotted line...

The folks in charge of NZ - and the companies - are MUPPETS. But unfortunately, that's what you get when there's a "brain-drain" (obviously, it's MY generation who are running the country now - and everyone I went to school with pretty much now live abroad. So the only ones left are the idiots who couldn't afford the ticket out at the time, or were too NARROW-MINDED to do the Overseas Experience when they were younger...).

It's a classic case of the MEEK INHERITING THE EARTH.

May your plan of action succeed. These bastards can't get away with that kind of crap.

"Could the last one there turn off the lights?"

HexMonkey · Feb 21, 2004, 04:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kiwi_the_iwik
DATA CAP?!?

Well - SCREW THAT!

Sorry guys - they're really nailing you to the wall. Let the revolution begin...

Indeed they are. Actually until January I had umlimited bandwidth, but that was a 56 kbps connection. Now I've got a 10GB/month limit at almost 10 times the speed (256/56 is not 10, but I could only ever get about 3.5 KB/sec out of the 56K modem)

Quote:

That MUST be against the Geneva Convention, or something. Let the World know - call the UN, Amnesty International, UNICEF...

...or Batman.

I believe it is in breach of my human rights. Article 5 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights is:
"No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment."
Now if our internet options are not torture, I don't know what is.

Quote:

It's with stories like this that I remember why I left my beautiful - yet BACKWARD country to seek my fortune afar. Don't these people realise GOOD business sense when they see it? Let's see, now - LOWER the rates, give MORE services, REMOVE the cap - and HEY-PRESTO! LOADS MORE people will sign on the dotted line...

And in the future unbundling will undoubtedly have good effects on our economy. So why not? Sometimes I think the country's run by monkeys...

Nermal · Feb 21, 2004, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by HexMonkey
And in the future unbundling will undoubtedly have good effects on our economy. So why not? Sometimes I think the country's run by monkeys...

So says someone who calls himself a monkey

(albeit one with 6 sides)

HexMonkey · Feb 21, 2004, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nermal
So says someone who calls himself a monkey (albeit one with 6 sides)

I knew someone would point that out! Sorry, I can't think of any good comebacks.

Nermal · Feb 21, 2004, 04:53 AM

Word's getting around

A friend of mine has just changed her MSN username to "Tired of Telecom? FIGHT THE MONOPOLY! Click the YES and STAND UP FOR YOUR RIGHTS! www.call4choice.co.nz", or something to that effect

ingenious · Feb 21, 2004, 10:28 AM

Man, you NZ guys are so lucky. Some places in the states don't even have true broadband. Just recently did my area get some sort of wireless T3 installed that's fast (supposedly 2.5 mb/s) but its way too expensive. Then there's a horrid ISDN line from the mom and pop ISP in town that disconnects all the time. Also, the cable company decides it's going to add its (who knows, maybe horrid too?) own connection to the mix? I'm j waiting on 56k until something short of $40/50 USD comes into range. I wish we could vote on that!

Nermal · Feb 21, 2004, 04:35 PM

"Broadband" is defined as 256 kb/s or faster. Only about 10% of NZers live in an area where you can get broadband without paying per MB. Everyone else must use 128k DSL (or dialup if they're in a rural area) if they want a "flat rate" connection.

I've seen some broadband pricing in the US, stuff like EarthLink's 1.5 Mb/s DSL for $49.95 per month. That's about NZ$70 per month, which would get you what the local telco calls "JetStream 1000". JS1000 gives you a connection up to 8 Mb/s, with a data cap of 1000 MB. Go over that 1000 MB and you pay 20c per MB (US 14c).

I appreciate that different parts of the US would have different services available, after all you have different providers etc. Here in NZ the phone system was owned by the Government, and was sold to a private company (Telecom) in 1989. Telecom then proceeded to rip off the consumer as much as possible

And that is what the website's all about. We're voting to have a choice of phone provider. Right now, we have no choice. We must use Telecom. Hopefully enough people will vote, and we'll be able to choose our own provider.

Since I'm ranting, I might as well add a quick cost comparison. Currently I'm paying Telecom:

Phone Line $38.95
128k DSL Connection $29.95
Plus $30 to my ISP
TOTAL $98.90

If I was to switch to, say, Telstra, they offer a phone line, 256k DSL, and ISP connection for $69.95 per month - a saving of $28.95 (US$20). Currently, to get that deal, you have to live in an area where Telstra has run their own cables. Hopefully they'll extend these prices nationwide.

Anyway, I'm sure you're all tired of reading by now

Nermal · Feb 21, 2004, 05:28 PM

I just remembered something...

The current system is fully capable of delivering ridiculously high speeds. A few months ago, there was a failure which caused everyone's 128k connections to speed up into the megabits. It lasted about 3 days, and it was fast for everyone - it didn't slow down due to a massive bandwidth strain. And, of course, I downloaded a lot of stuff over those few days

Go BitTorrent and Direct Connect!

Feb 19, 2004, 01:14 AM	#5
Nermal Thread Starter Demi-God (Moderator) Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Whakatane, New Zealand	My DSL died the other day so I had to use 56k. I can't stand a connection that slow anymore. It's scary to think that I started off in 1995 with a 4800 bps connection to MSN Naturally, it didn't take long for me to upgrade to 14.4 (and to switch to a real ISP in the process). I eventually got DSL, back in 2001, and have been waiting for something a bit faster ever since. Edited for wording (2 days after the original post!) Last edited by Nermal : Sep 24, 2004 at 02:30 AM. Reason: 7 months later, I noticed a typo :)

Feb 21, 2004, 10:28 AM	#23
ingenious macrumors 65816 Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Kansas, United States	Lucky!! Man, you NZ guys are so lucky. Some places in the states don't even have true broadband. Just recently did my area get some sort of wireless T3 installed that's fast (supposedly 2.5 mb/s) but its way too expensive. Then there's a horrid ISDN line from the mom and pop ISP in town that disconnects all the time. Also, the cable company decides it's going to add its (who knows, maybe horrid too?) own connection to the mix? I'm j waiting on 56k until something short of $40/50 USD comes into range. I wish we could vote on that! __________________ Unibody 15.4" MacBook Pro 2.8 GHz, 4 GB RAM 20" iMac G5 2 GHz, 2 GB RAM 1G iPod touch 32 GB, OS 3 blog \| Twitter \| No tea for me.

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Feb 19, 2004, 12:31 AM	#2
HexMonkey Demi-God (Moderator) Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: New Zealand	I voted. It's about time for some decent pricing. A big problem I find is that a lot of programs almost expect that you have a broadband connection and act accordingly, but in New Zealand, most people still have dialup because of the high price of broadband (I was using dialup until last month, now I have a 256 kbps connection with Telstra).

Feb 19, 2004, 12:50 AM	#3
Nermal Thread Starter Demi-God (Moderator) Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Whakatane, New Zealand	Is that cable? I can't get cable where I live (Whakatane) so I'm stuck on 128k DSL

Feb 19, 2004, 01:34 AM	#6
HexMonkey Demi-God (Moderator) Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: New Zealand	I was reminded of the [lack of] speed of slower connections this afternoon when I was downloading a file from a busy server at about 1.3 KB a second. It made we realise me how dependant I've become on cable. I think that slower connections were more tolerable a few years ago since people were aware that people used them. Websites and programs were both (generally) much smaller than today.

Feb 20, 2004, 03:17 AM	#9
winmacguy macrumors 68020 Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: New Zealand	Well being a JAFA myself, I am only on dial up at the moment but am thinking about getting either Woosh or Jetstream in the not to distant future.

Feb 20, 2004, 04:21 AM	#10
Mac Kiwi macrumors 6502 Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: New Zealand	Whoosh wireless is about 300 - 400 to get installed I read,but it has unlimited download for about 60 or 70 bucks,at 256k I think it was. Telecom must be making an incredible amount of dosh by controling the cables/gouging the customer...

Feb 20, 2004, 05:22 AM	#11
Nermal Thread Starter Demi-God (Moderator) Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Whakatane, New Zealand	They sure are! If you go to their website, their DSL service is called "Xtra JetStream" - they push you onto Xtra unless you specifically tell them otherwise. And Xtra is horrendously expensive, $35 a month for 5 gigs, most ISPs are $30 a month and offer at least 10 gigs.

Feb 20, 2004, 05:16 PM	#14
Nermal Thread Starter Demi-God (Moderator) Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Whakatane, New Zealand	That's correct, everyone was expecting it to be unbundled, but it didn't happen. Call4Change is a new website (opened this month), trying to convince the Govt that it NEEDS to be unbundled.

Feb 21, 2004, 01:59 AM	#16
Nermal Thread Starter Demi-God (Moderator) Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Whakatane, New Zealand	No, not at a decent price. It's 10c per MB once you hit a certain (low) limit See here for details, if you dare...

Feb 21, 2004, 04:53 AM	#22
Nermal Thread Starter Demi-God (Moderator) Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Whakatane, New Zealand	Word's getting around A friend of mine has just changed her MSN username to "Tired of Telecom? FIGHT THE MONOPOLY! Click the YES and STAND UP FOR YOUR RIGHTS! www.call4choice.co.nz", or something to that effect

Feb 21, 2004, 04:35 PM	#24
Nermal Thread Starter Demi-God (Moderator) Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Whakatane, New Zealand	"Broadband" is defined as 256 kb/s or faster. Only about 10% of NZers live in an area where you can get broadband without paying per MB. Everyone else must use 128k DSL (or dialup if they're in a rural area) if they want a "flat rate" connection. I've seen some broadband pricing in the US, stuff like EarthLink's 1.5 Mb/s DSL for $49.95 per month. That's about NZ$70 per month, which would get you what the local telco calls "JetStream 1000". JS1000 gives you a connection up to 8 Mb/s, with a data cap of 1000 MB. Go over that 1000 MB and you pay 20c per MB (US 14c). I appreciate that different parts of the US would have different services available, after all you have different providers etc. Here in NZ the phone system was owned by the Government, and was sold to a private company (Telecom) in 1989. Telecom then proceeded to rip off the consumer as much as possible And that is what the website's all about. We're voting to have a choice of phone provider. Right now, we have no choice. We must use Telecom. Hopefully enough people will vote, and we'll be able to choose our own provider. Since I'm ranting, I might as well add a quick cost comparison. Currently I'm paying Telecom: Phone Line $38.95 128k DSL Connection $29.95 Plus $30 to my ISP TOTAL $98.90 If I was to switch to, say, Telstra, they offer a phone line, 256k DSL, and ISP connection for $69.95 per month - a saving of $28.95 (US$20). Currently, to get that deal, you have to live in an area where Telstra has run their own cables. Hopefully they'll extend these prices nationwide. Anyway, I'm sure you're all tired of reading by now

Feb 21, 2004, 05:28 PM	#25
Nermal Thread Starter Demi-God (Moderator) Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Whakatane, New Zealand	I just remembered something... The current system is fully capable of delivering ridiculously high speeds. A few months ago, there was a failure which caused everyone's 128k connections to speed up into the megabits. It lasted about 3 days, and it was fast for everyone - it didn't slow down due to a massive bandwidth strain. And, of course, I downloaded a lot of stuff over those few days Go BitTorrent and Direct Connect!