I know Mr. A, Moxie & Evo can attest to my almost lack of surprise something weird happened here, but read on.
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Man Killed During Masonic Initiation
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It strange to think some lodges do such stupid things. It is not part of any meaningful ritual, so why was it happening. I think there will be an internal investigation, coming from the Grand Lodge. Hopefully whomever came up with this "scare tatic" and the guy who fired the gun will be excommunicated. That what I'm hoping for.
TEG
TEG
miloblithe said:
Actually he just took some of the ritual. Lets hope other sects don't take this one.
TEG
Sounds like old fraternity guys trying to scare plebes....and the initiate was 47 
Yeah, they're going to have a bunch of issues with this. But given the secrecy surrounding the Masons (my grandfather was one) I have to wonder how much things will be investigated there and in other lodges...
Any one read Dan Brown's Angels and Demons
D
Yeah, they're going to have a bunch of issues with this. But given the secrecy surrounding the Masons (my grandfather was one) I have to wonder how much things will be investigated there and in other lodges...
Any one read Dan Brown's Angels and Demons
D
Wow, that's pretty stupid. I bet that guy feels like a dumbass now. The living one I mean. THINK before you pull a gun. Espescially when you are carrying two that are similar and one is being used to scare somebody not kill them and the other is being used to kill people. Probably in the same pocket too. Dumbass.
Well they scared him alright, his death. My father was a Mason. The only thing that I remember about his membership was his ring. At Christmas time my father would take me to their party. Santa Claus was a guest.
I can't imagine why they would us a gun. You would think they would try to be be imaginative.
I can't imagine why they would us a gun. You would think they would try to be be imaginative.
jeez, my uncle is a mason and i've always wondered what kind of wierd things they got going on... now i know.
ExoticFish said:
No you don't.
Masonic customs are about helping out your fellow man. Not shooting him in the head, nor pretending to shoot him with a blank gun. What ever lodge this was, I can guarentee a discussion will be held about them in every lodge around the word. I certainly hope the Local Grand Lodge has someone excommunicated, or the lodge closed.
TEG
Masonry has been around for absolutely years, probably longer than the .38 calibre gun that was used. So I reckon that this "traditional" part of the initiation ceremony was not there at the beginning and added at a later date because some jerk thought it was a laugh.
It's all a shame.
It's all a shame.
Honestly, I don't trust Masons any more than I trust Skull and Bones or the guys with the fez. I've heard a lot of strange stories about groups like these. I don't have an issue with them, something just doesn't sit right with me about them.
Tragic that this would happen, but what was the shooter thinking carrying two guns? Sounds fishy....
Dan
Tragic that this would happen, but what was the shooter thinking carrying two guns? Sounds fishy....
Dan
I figured the initiation was lying on a bed of nails and having someone break cinderblocks on your chest with a sledgehammer. Makes sense huh? Being masons and all.
TEG said:
That may well be, but what about helping your fellow man requires doing it in a secret society with secret innitiation rites?
Answer: nothing.
TEG said:
No its not, I have met a UK ex-mason and when you get to a certain level in the organisation, you find out what they are really about. They are nothing more than a social club that worships satan. I am glad they are becoming less and less important now, since people used to find it hard to get high up jobs without being a mason.
Why in the hell would you carry a fake gun and a real one? This guy clearly wasn't clicking on all cylinders.
God forgive me, it reminds me of the scene in "The Return of the Pink Panther" where Chief Inspector Dreyfus tries to light his cigarette with a "cigarette lighter gun" and accidentally shoots his nose off.
God forgive me, it reminds me of the scene in "The Return of the Pink Panther" where Chief Inspector Dreyfus tries to light his cigarette with a "cigarette lighter gun" and accidentally shoots his nose off.
hvfsl said:
That statement is so full of crap, I had to plug my nose. I am a Mason, and can tell you without a doubt that in all reality, nothing about Freemasonry is Secret. You see it everyday, comments like "Don't give me the third degree" come directly from Masonry. Masonry is not really a secret society, nor is there any "agenda", Masons are nothing more that a large multi-national, multi-culturial, mulit-religious Fraternity. There are only 3 criteria to be a Mason (which hold true in most Countries, with the notable exception of France) 1) Be a Freeborn Male, 2) Believe in a Deity (God, Buda, Allah, etc.), and 3) Be willing to join of your own free will.
Some of the greatest Men throughout history have been Masons, Including most of the Founding Fathers of the United States. However, there I will not sit here and say that every Mason is a good man, or that I agree with the belifs of every Mason out there, but if I was up against a wall, there is no one I'd rather have by my side supporting me than an Brethern.
Also, for more information, that is rational and tempered, check out the Wikipedia Article on Freemasonry Here.
I am also willing to have a dialog about this, but don't just jump to conclusions based to myth and ignorance. As I have said, I don't agree with the ceremony that was being performed, and hope someone gets in trouble from the inside.
TEG
TEG said:
I believe the person I met more than you, a person I have never met. He said that when you reach the top of the masons, you find out that you are actually worshipping satan. This is not common knowledge amoung lower order masons, so thats why you probably dont know about it. I cant remember exactly what he said (was a few years ago now), but he said something about swearing an oath to the evening star, and thoughout history, the evening star has meant the devil. (or it could have been the morning star, cant quite remember, but I remeber he said they were basically swearing an oath to the devil).
Now you may be a decent citizen, but I am just saying what he said. You may say that you dont agree with the ceremony, but it goes on a lot (especially in the UK). And any group of people that uses fear as part of a ceremony cant be doing much good in the world.
Also I dont believe masons have any agenda of world domination of anything silly like that, I just think it is nothing more than a private social club with odd beliefs.
Edit: I read the article you posted, it just makes me beleive even more in what I heard was the truth.
TEG said:
i've just never been able to figure out what the point of things like this are. these groups and fraternitys... i dunno, can you shed some light on what makes them so good? i mean if i was up against a wall i'd rather have a friend, a family member, heck even my AAA membership will get me out of a bunch of different kinds of binds. not trying to flame here i just don't understand.
ExoticFish said:
It is nice to have a network of people, around the world, whom you can lean on in case of a crisis. Its also nice to find a group of people with similar beliefs, morals, and ideas, something hard to find in the rest of society.
hvfsl... Having had deep conversations with Masons from 3rd to 33rd Degrees (33 being the highest level able to be held), I can tell you with out a doubt that the person you spoke to is either a) Trying to scare you, b) Has a grudge against the Masons (the largest source of false information is from former members) or c) Part of one of the Splinter groups that have perverted the ideals for their own use.
I'm just saying that, through all my research, coupled with the knowledge gathered by asking such questions, that your 'friend' is wrong.
As I said earlier, all the ritual, ceremony, and beliefs (and I do mean ALL) are availible for anyone to view, all you need to do is to do some research. I gathered data for 3 years on Masonry before deciding to Join, that is the basis of my 'arguement'.
TEG
How can chubby middle-aged men in little go-carts be evil?
I simply don't see it.
I thought Mason initiation was all about falling ~3 feet as a trust thing
then pretending to be dead so as to be ritually risen, in a non evil way, so as to start your life anew in the brotherhood of the Masons
Didn't they grow out of the knights templar a strange but christian, certainly not satanic, organization?
I simply don't see it.
I thought Mason initiation was all about falling ~3 feet as a trust thing
then pretending to be dead so as to be ritually risen, in a non evil way, so as to start your life anew in the brotherhood of the Masons
Didn't they grow out of the knights templar a strange but christian, certainly not satanic, organization?