Apple and Symbiot Rumors

[MacRumors]

The following anonymous submission has been sent to a number of sites (Appleinsider, Apple-X, MacRumors):

Apple appears to be working with the guys at Symbiot (or as I call them, builder's of SkyNET http://www.symbiot.com). According to several rumors floating around over near 1 Infinite loop over the last couple of months, Apple has been seeding prototype Xserves (based on the G5) into Symbiot for use in creating a solution that 'Attacks Hackers Back'. I thought this was crap until this morning when I saw a press release from Symbiot in which Ron Okamoto, Appleâ??s vice-president of Worldwide Developer Relation said -- "Symbiot's iSIMS running on Xserve G5 creates a compelling value proposition for enterprise customers that want to STRIKE BACK AGAINST NETWORK-BASED ATTACKS"!

Rumor has it that Apple has secretly invested over $3M in the technology to give them a "Killer App" for enterprise customers (which they seriously lack). I did some vanity surfing and found that a few members of the management team are x-Apple employees. One from Apple R&D!

You guys should really cover this, several people (including me) have been thinking it was an April Fool's joke, apparently it's not! Apple is seemingly behind the biggest event in information security history!!!

So the question is -- will Steve Jobs solve all of Bill Gates security issues by building "SkyNET"? Wow! I can see it now, Microsoft can't protect their customers, but Apple will protect the entire Internet! Nice.

Accuracy/reliability unknown.

[junior]

Seems incredible if true. And if true, does that mean there'll be a huge demand for xserves in nearly all large companies throughout the world?

[Don't panic]

be ready to be flooded with OSX-specific viruses as every hacker this side of Betelgeuse make is a point of class honor to crack the system

[arn]

Most of it is true:

http://home.businesswire.com/portal/...66&newsLang=en

the investment is really the only "rumor"

arn

[ryanw]

I've seen several people using PowerBooks and XServes as Network Sniffers. They say the MacOSX Networking in combination with the hardware to be of the best configuration for network sniffers available. Makes sense if you're going to be making some sort of network packet analysis software you'd want to run it on an excellent network sniffer.

[0 and A ai]

skynet? april fools

[praetorian_x]

"Apple is seemingly behind the biggest event in information security history!!!"

: |

This guy is either a complete retard with no sense of perspective OR someone with an interest in getting this rumor out. Ever heard of RSA bub?

Idiot.

Prat

[Frohickey]

I don't know anything about SkyNet... but over here, we are starting to work on a prototype neural net processor.

[Laslo Panaflex]

Attack back? So, basically this software is promoting that old "Eye for and Eye" saying. If you ask me attacking back will only provoke hackers and possibly make the matter even worse.

Oh well. at least you have to try.

[alamar]

Originally Posted by Laslo Panaflex

Attack back? So, basically this software is promoting that old "Eye for and Eye" saying. If you ask me attacking back will only provoke hackers and possibly make the matter even worse.

Oh well. at least you have to try.

since most DoS attacks come from infected slave machiens i dont get how this will attack the hackers back. seems more like it will attack the already under attack.

very little seems known at this point.

[0 and A ai]

Domain Name: SYMBIOT.COM
Registrar: TUCOWS INC.
Whois Server: whois.opensrs.net
Referral URL: http://domainhelp.tucows.com
Name Server: NS1.OUTERNIC.NET
Name Server: NS2.OUTERNIC.NET
Status: ACTIVE
Updated Date: 10-mar-2004
Creation Date: 11-sep-1995
Expiration Date: 10-sep-2004

http://web.archive.org/web/*/www.symbiot.com

News.com is reporting this
http://news.com.com/2100-7349-5172032.html?tag=cd_top

I don't get how launching DOS attack on the attacker would help of course they don't say thats what they are gonna do but nevertheless usually hackers work by telling other computers to do the dirty work. Wonder how legal this would be.

Looks legit.

[dricci]

A typical script kiddie will use other open machines to do the dirty work so it's harder to trace back to him. If this is true and it actually attacks back, it'll take the compromised machines offline by it's own attack, thus slowing the script kiddie down by forcing them to find new vulnerable machines. Of course nothing can stop a widespread DoS attack spread by a major worm or other windows vulnerability, but this could put an end to the small-scale ones (which can still do some damage). At least this is the way I see it working. I could be wrong; wouldn't be the first time!

[Kagetenshi]

Originally Posted by praetorian_x

Ever heard of RSA bub?

Yes, I've heard of it. It's nearly (well, depending on your definition of "nearly") obsolete.

IMO, despite not being feasible yet, quantum cryptography and quantum computing have already taken the #1 and #2 spots. Your main point (that this guy doesn't know what he's talking about) still stands.

~J

[0 and A ai]

lol

POWERMAC G5 CLUSTERS WILL BECOME SELF AWARE DECEMBER 2005 TRIGGERING WORLD WAR III AND DESTROYING ALL HUMANS USING MICROSOFT WINDOWS.

[Photorun]

Originally Posted by 0 and A ai

lol

POWERMAC G5 CLUSTERS WILL BECOME SELF AWARE DECEMBER 2005 TRIGGERING WORLD WAR III AND DESTROYING ALL HUMANS USING MICROSOFT WINDOWS.

I wouldn't want WWIII but the whole destroying everyone who uses Microsoft Windblows sounds quite nice!

[Sol]

I voted this story as a negative because attacking hackers is guaranteed to provoke more attacks. Apple & Symbiot's solution will most likely attack all the wrong servers since any hacker worth his salt would be one step ahead of their victum. It would be better to develop a better FireWall than this Skynet-like solution.

I am also concerned about all those Windows-only virus writers who will suddenly have a new target on their sights. I love my virus free PowerMac and I love even more telling every Apple-basher that "the Mac has NO viruses". Having said that, it is innevitable that some evil genius will release a virus for OS X one day.

[7on]

http://www.symbiot.com/media/pr.031804.pdf

seems true

http://www.symbiot.com/

I think it's a good idea. Sure it'll provoke more attacks, but this is what the system it meant to do. It's not a firewall that will give out, it's completely new technology.

It is widespread that OSX has no viruses. I doubt a machine/creation like that of skynet will provoke hardly any reaction. If any I'd say one or two. Because developing a virus for a Unix system takes some brains. Not that it's impossible, just most virus writers tend to be A) not that smart or B)ummm, something else ;P but you get the point. I see a big problem with 10.3 over 10.2 is that 10.3 will let you delete root owned files w/o the use of Terminal. A dialogue box pops up and asks for your root password. Disabling that should take care of some viruses that may arise. (since it'd be easy to spoof a naïve mac user into typing their root pass thus giving a virus permission to do a sudo rm -R /System)

[mrroboto]

Why so afraid of virus, its funny to see how fearfull people are now a days, everything makes them afraid, I personally welcome a good virus for MAC, lets see if it can be really done and lets make the OS even harder to do that, lets be for real sooner or later we either take a stand and make an OS as anti virus as possible or just unhook our computers from the internet.
Scary cats.

Originally Posted by Sol

I voted this story as a negative because attacking hackers is guaranteed to provoke more attacks. Apple & Symbiot's solution will most likely attack all the wrong servers since any hacker worth his salt would be one step ahead of their victum. It would be better to develop a better FireWall than this Skynet-like solution.

I am also concerned about all those Windows-only virus writers who will suddenly have a new target on their sights. I love my virus free PowerMac and I love even more telling every Apple-basher that "the Mac has NO viruses". Having said that, it is innevitable that some evil genius will release a virus for OS X one day.

[hob]

Originally Posted by mrroboto

sooner or later we either take a stand and make an OS as anti virus as possible or just unhook our computers from the internet.
Scary cats.

I went on the road today with my PowerBook - and no internet connection. Do you realise how boring computing is with no internet?!?!? Scary indeed!

[applekid]

Originally Posted by 0 and A ai

lol

POWERMAC G5 CLUSTERS WILL BECOME SELF AWARE DECEMBER 2005 TRIGGERING WORLD WAR III AND DESTROYING ALL HUMANS USING MICROSOFT WINDOWS.

Judgment Day nears...

[keysersoze]

Originally Posted by applekid

Judgment Day nears...

Please keep Ahnold in Collyfornia.

thanks!

[eric67]

here it the text of the offical release:
® Symbiot, Inc. 8501 N. MoPac, Suite 300 Austin, TX 78759 Intelligent Security Infrastructure Management
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Symbiot Selects Xserve G5 for iSIMS Deployment er in the field of ced that it has serve G5’s dual 64-nchmarks,” said , and reliability of tse applications.” le network assets prise customers to e countermeasures. 30 gigaflops of rfect fit for the e,” said Ron Okamoto, Apple’s vice-president of Worldwide Developer Relations. “Symbiot’s iSIMS running on Xserve G5 creates a compelling value proposition for enterprise nth. Symbiot’s f their subscription t Symbiot ty Infrastructure nt Systems (iSIMS) marketplace. With the aid of proprietary artificial intelligence (AI) software, Symbiot's iSIMS (intelligent SIMS) analyzes network patterns to provide real-redictive tools for managing and responding to security events. Symbiot's iSIMS software ith existing firewalls, intrusion detection systems, and intrusion prevention Company and product names may be trademarks of the respective companies with which they are associated. Contact: Francis X. Milano Symbiot, Inc. 512-233-1911 ### AUSTIN, TEXAS – March 18, 2004 – Symbiot, Inc., an emerging leadIntelligent Security Infrastructure Management Systems (iSIMS), today announselected Apple Computer’s Xserve G5 for deploying iSIMS in the enterprise. “Symbiot’s customers will appreciate the speed and performance of Xbit processors, which produced noticeable improvements in our performance beMichael W. Erwin, president of Symbiot, Inc. “The speed, computational power hese machines make them a natural choice for business-critical enterpriSymbiot’s iSIMS utilizes artificial intelligence to automatically profiand determine the significance of security threats in real-time. It enables enteraccurately identify malicious attackers in order to plan and execute appropriat “With dual PowerPC G5 processors, Xserve G5 delivers more than processing power per system, is easy to manage and affordable, making it a peenterpris customers that want to strike back against network-based attacks.” Symbiot’s iSIMS software is scheduled for release at the end this mocurrent customers will receive a free iSIMS upgrade for Xserve G5 as part of their agreements.

[hob]

It's got to be some kinda network geek joke :P Can you IMAGINE the legality of what they're proposing?

So, say I'm using a windows computer (god help me) and somehow (hmmm, let me think) a DDoS worm thingy gets onto it - so iSIMMS checks me out and DoS's ME! Through no fault of my own, I'm disconnected from the internet - with no way to download any kind of virus fix...

Hmm, I can hear you all laughing at me now - cos I'm trying to be cool and understand it all, but actually it IS a joke that I just don't get...

[Snowy_River]

Originally Posted by 0 and A ai

lol

POWERMAC G5 CLUSTERS WILL BECOME SELF AWARE DECEMBER 2005 TRIGGERING WORLD WAR III AND DESTROYING ALL HUMANS USING MICROSOFT WINDOWS.

Now, now, remember, we should hate the Windows, but love the Windows user...

[Analog Kid]

Usually it doesn't take a full scaled DoS attack to to stop a minor irritant. I was doing some testing where I had tcpdump running quite a bit and started seeing how often I was getting port scanned. I found that returning a short burst of pings usually stopped the scan.

Granted this looks like it's targeted for deployment at places like SCO or the RIAA, but for the little guys its often enough to let them know they've been noticed...

Anyone remember when "out of office" replies were too stupid to know who they'd notified already and you'd get two drones continually telling each other no one was home? Imagine that on a huge scale. Part of me wants to laugh, part of me wants to ...well... laugh but in a head shaking, the world is insane, kinda way...

The first time a system like this goes out of control and attacks the wrong person, there's gonna be hell to pay.

Or think of all those movies where some terrorist tries to convince two countries that their worst enemy just attacked them to trigger a large scale conflict. Now imagine systems like this at say, SCO and Novell. Someone hacks Novell and triggers a counter attack from SCO, which triggers a counter attack from Novell.

"War is neither glamorous nor fun. There are no winners, only losers. There are no good wars, with the following exceptions: The American Revolution, World War II, and the Star Wars Trilogy."-- Bart Simpson