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Old Feb 27, 2009, 10:58 PM   #1
Abidubi
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Thoughts about dual1.8 ---> dual 2.3 G5 project

Ok, just looking for opinions for a little project that I want to try. Feel free to point out anything you think wont work.

I am considering turning my dual (single now) 1.8 june 2004 G5, 3 Gigs of RAM, X800XT, 1 80 GB and 1 300 GB HD into...
a dual 2.3 (single core) G5 with 5 Gigs of RAM, flashed 7800 GT AGP version, 2 320 GB HDs in raid 0, 1 80 GB HD as a bootable bare bones volume, 1 300 GB time machine backup of the system and non-applications on the RAID 0.

Parts I intend to buy to make this happen:

- 1 early 2005 2.3 logicboard
- 2 single core 2.3 processors
- 2 320 GB WD Caviar SE16
- G5 Jive internal HD mount
- Sonnet Tempo Serial ATA 2-Port Internal Serial ATA PCI Card
- Nvidia 7800 GT AGP 256MB
- 2 X 1 GB sticks of PC3200 Kingston RAM

Parts I intend to sell to make this cheaper:

- Dual 1.8 G5 logic board, fully functioning
- 1 1.8 G5 processor, fully functioning
- 1 1.8 G5 processor, kernel panic causing
- 1 X800 XT working fine

Parts I intend to keep, thinking they would be compatible with the new board:

- Combo Optical Drive
- 80 GB and 300 GB HDs
- 2 X 512 MB sticks of apple PC3200 RAM
- 2 X 1 GB sticks of trancend PC3200 RAM
- 600W power supply
- The Fans
- Airport extreme card
- The case

If I can get a good price for the stuff I sell, it would probably cost me about US$800-900. I don't need to run anything new, just want something that can surf the web with ease despite the 5000 flash ads per page (just look at gametrailers.com), that can play good old PPC games with ease, can run classic environment and can do some video editing relatively painlessly. I don't want a liquid cooled system as they seem too unreliable in the long term. This would be the fastest air cooled AGP G5 money could buy (besides more ram and bigger HDs).

I want to hold off buying a MacPro until the new version, the new OS, and the bugs get worked out... plus hopefully a good new video card. That means I'd be using this system for at least a year, and this would cost 1/3 the price of a new system for what I consider a huge increase in performance. Oh and buying a dual 2.0 would run around $800, but then I'd need to put another 300 on the vid card, 100 on the ram, 250 on the HDs...

Of course I have ASD 2.5.8 so I can run the thermal calibration after I switch the board and procs. Anything seem like it will not work? Does it sound crazy? I've done video card, HD and RAM replacement, but thats it. Removing the processors and logic board seem trivial though from the 2003 service guide.
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Old Feb 27, 2009, 11:00 PM   #2
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Why not save just a little more, wait until March, and get an updated iMac that will blow this G5's performance out of the water?
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Old Feb 27, 2009, 11:10 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
Why not save just a little more, wait until March, and get an updated iMac that will blow this G5's performance out of the water?
Can't do classic, plus PPC is with rosetta. And I already have a 25.5 inch screen, so I don't want an iMac. Not to mention I plan to make the next computer I get last 5+ years, so an iMac is out of the question. No vid card upgrade = no sale.

I plan to get the next mid range MacPro, with the best card available (sub $500) with 4 HDs (2 in raid 0, 1 for windows, 1 for backup) and about 4 GB of ram. But while I can dish out $1000 now, I can't really dish out $3000 for a little while. Spending $1000 would only really set me back a few months anyway.
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Old Feb 27, 2009, 11:15 PM   #4
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Can't do classic, plus PPC is with rosetta. And I already have a 25.5 inch screen, so I don't want an iMac. Not to mention I plan to make the next computer I get last 5+ years, so an iMac is out of the question. No vid card upgrade = no sale.

I plan to get the next mid range MacPro, with the best card available (sub $500) with 4 HDs (2 in raid 0, 1 for windows, 1 for backup) and about 4 GB of ram. But while I can dish out $1000 now, I can't really dish out $3000 for a little while. Spending $1000 would only really set me back a few months anyway.
You're not going to be able to upgrade the video card in the Mac Pro, either...

Don't buy HDDs from Apple. Don't buy RAM from Apple.
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Old Feb 27, 2009, 11:16 PM   #5
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i know it's not as much fun, but for 8 or 9 hundred dollars, you can just buy the machine you want to build and keep your current one... you could still sell off bits of it, use it in some way that justifies not selling it to get the other g5, donate it for tax credit, whatever.
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Old Feb 27, 2009, 11:18 PM   #6
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I believe that the 2.3 systems are PCIE....which means different RAM, but it also means you can REALLY use a 7800GT.

The 7800 cards for AGP are GS cards....down one set of pixel pipelines.

I think Dual 2.0 is fastest AGP system with Air Cooling.
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Old Feb 27, 2009, 11:21 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
You're not going to be able to upgrade the video card in the Mac Pro, either...

Don't buy HDDs from Apple. Don't buy RAM from Apple.
Wont be able to upgrade the card?????? Why is that? PCIE-XXX?

I wasn't going to buy apple ram or HDs though. I would order it with the 320 (for windows), buy 2 500 GB WD Caviar black's and 1 WD RE 3 1TB for the backup.

As for ram it would be from OWC probably.
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Old Feb 27, 2009, 11:23 PM   #8
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Wont be able to upgrade the card?????? Why is that? PCIE-XXX?
PCIe 2.0.

But, no, there is just nothing to which you will be able to upgrade. The idea is to buy the next revision a year and a half after yours came out to be able to use a new graphics card.

And only three cards will work with the next model... period.
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Old Feb 27, 2009, 11:24 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Fomaphone View Post
i know it's not as much fun, but for 8 or 9 hundred dollars, you can just buy the machine you want to build and keep your current one... you could still sell off bits of it, use it in some way that justifies not selling it to get the other g5, donate it for tax credit, whatever.
Not really. It would cost around 8 or 9 hundred, but then I would have to buy more ram, HDs and a better vid card. A dual 2.7 with 9600 and 1 Gig, and 160 GB HD is around 1200. Upgrading it would cost as much as I could get for my single 1.8 (down 1 processor), I'd be able to get about $500 for it.
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Old Feb 27, 2009, 11:30 PM   #10
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I believe that the 2.3 systems are PCIE....which means different RAM, but it also means you can REALLY use a 7800GT.

The 7800 cards for AGP are GS cards....down one set of pixel pipelines.

I think Dual 2.0 is fastest AGP system with Air Cooling.
The dual core is PCIE, the single core (early 2005) is still AGP and PC3200 RAM.

And the 7800 GT is available, as well as the GS. And honestly I wouldn't believe for a second that a card of that generation would be able to get more than 1 or 2 FPS more by being PCIE rather than AGP.

GT ---> http://cgi.ebay.ca/Mac-nVidia-GeForc...1%7C240%3A1318

GS ---> http://cgi.ebay.ca/MAC-NVIDIA-GEFORC...1%7C240%3A1318
or
http://cgi.ebay.ca/Mac-nVidia-GeForc...1%7C240%3A1318
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Old Feb 27, 2009, 11:32 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
PCIe 2.0.

But, no, there is just nothing to which you will be able to upgrade. The idea is to buy the next revision a year and a half after yours came out to be able to use a new graphics card.

And only three cards will work with the next model... period.
I thought the mac pro already had PCIe 2.0?

So what are you suggesting? Not buying a MacPro until they change the video card slot? You really think no more PCIe cards will come out after the 280GTX?
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Old Feb 27, 2009, 11:56 PM   #12
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I stand corrected on the 2.3, but trust me, there is NO 7800GT in 256 Meg form.

Apple Mecanix are simply selling 7800GS boards with higher clocks for higher prices. It's called "marketing" but it doesn't enable the disconnected graphics processors in the core.

There was only 1 card made with AGP and the GT core, it was from Gainward and only sold in Europe.

Those cards were all 512 Megs, though despite our best efforts we never got an AGP Mac to see more than 256 Megs with them.
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Old Feb 27, 2009, 11:59 PM   #13
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I thought the mac pro already had PCIe 2.0?

So what are you suggesting? Not buying a MacPro until they change the video card slot? You really think no more PCIe cards will come out after the 280GTX?
The current Mac Pro has two 16x PCIe 2.0, and the next one will have all PCIe 2.0.

It has nothing to do with the slot, but no, I do not believe that you will be able to easily upgrade the graphics card in the next Mac Pro.
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Old Feb 28, 2009, 08:33 AM   #14
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I stand corrected on the 2.3, but trust me, there is NO 7800GT in 256 Meg form.

Apple Mecanix are simply selling 7800GS boards with higher clocks for higher prices. It's called "marketing" but it doesn't enable the disconnected graphics processors in the core.

There was only 1 card made with AGP and the GT core, it was from Gainward and only sold in Europe.

Those cards were all 512 Megs, though despite our best efforts we never got an AGP Mac to see more than 256 Megs with them.
You're sure they aren't using that gainward card? If they aren't and it is a GS, do you think the overclocking is giving it much better performance? Of course I'll ask them directly before I buy but I'm still in the deciding stage, plus I'm waiting for the password for my work laptop so I can have a backup while my computer will be down.

And what disconnected processor? Why would it be disconnected?
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Old Feb 28, 2009, 02:30 PM   #15
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7800GS 16 pipes
7800GT 20 pipes
7800GTX 24 pipes

Pipes refers to pixel pipelines

The GS also has fewer vertex shaders

If you do a search for "Gainward Bliss 7800" you can read about that special card.

It uses DUal DVI, while the GS boards were all DVI and VGA. It was on a red PCB and was dual slot.

I had one for awhile, neat card.

The 7800GS is a GREAT card and I am glad we were able to provide the PPC machines with such a great final GPU, but calling it a GT without explaining that it is not is just plain old deceptive.
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Old Feb 28, 2009, 04:16 PM   #16
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Thanks for clearing that up. So it's obviously an overclocked GS. I have read a little about the gainsworth, too bad no one is selling a mac compatible flashed one, but since it was limited supply there probably aren't many on the market period.

If I do go forward with supping-up my G5, I'll definitely get a 7800 AGP. Do you think the overclocked one they are calling a GT would but much better?
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Old Feb 28, 2009, 04:46 PM   #17
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As a G5 fanatic, I can tell you that you are better off saving your cash, or buying a dual 2.3 or 2.0 late October 2005 G5 model instead. Skip the dual 2.7 even. Paying $1200 for a G5 tower is crazy unless it's a quad, and even that model isn't really worth $1200.

If you are planning on getting a Mac Pro within the next year or year and a half then just don't worry about upgrading your current machine. Keep it to run Classic and grab an Intel Mac Mini.

The improvements you'll add to your current machine won't make it run that much faster.... smoother yes, wickedly faster.... not so much.
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Old Mar 2, 2009, 09:11 AM   #18
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Another question as I continue to explore my options. Are the dual core G5s capable of running 10.4 and classic environment? I've found a dual core 2.3 for $800, and if I could trade in my single 1.8 for $400 that would make it a very feasible upgrade. Sell my current X800 (sticking my old 9600 in my G5) to get a 7800GTX for about $150 difference and it's looking like a winner.

Oh and does the same airport extreme card from the single core G5s still work with the dual cores... considering it's a slightly different motherboard and all.

As I have stated before, if I can keep the cost down I don't really care about the intel systems, as I just want to have the fastest possible system (non-liquid cooled) for power-pc native apps and classic environment. And you guys have been very helpful so far.
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Old Mar 2, 2009, 11:04 AM   #19
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You can find 2.3 DCs for $900 and sell your machine as it is now for $300-400. So you get a $500 machine with no modding your current one.

Why not just do that
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Old Mar 2, 2009, 11:19 AM   #20
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You can find 2.3 DCs for $900 and sell your machine as it is now for $300-400. So you get a $500 machine with no modding your current one.

Why not just do that
lol, you didn't read my post right above yours did you?
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Old Mar 2, 2009, 11:43 AM   #21
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lol, you didn't read my post right above yours did you?
I missed that part

lol.

Yes the Airport extreme card is the same for each model. You do have the external antenna though right? If not a safety pin works wonders .

$800 is an even better price though!
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Old Mar 2, 2009, 02:24 PM   #22
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Ya I have the antenna and an airport extreme card. I was hoping that I could just swap the card into the new system before I sell. I thought the PCIE version of the G5 had a built in antenna though? Why would I need the antenna? Or I could be wrong, which would be better because the more of it that is the same, the more trouble free the switch would be.
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Old Mar 2, 2009, 03:52 PM   #23
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Get the 2.3ghz dual core late 2005 model. But as it seems you already know, modding is out. BTW, they are different G5 cases, too. Bluetooth antenna and airport antenna are external on the early G5 pms.

Airport extreme card in early G5's -- standard ae card. Weird bluetooth 1.0 card and knobby external "t" antennas for both.

Combo airport/bluetooth 2.0 card in last revision G5's with built in case antennas

About the only thing swappable is the shield, superdrive, hard drive.
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Old Mar 3, 2009, 10:17 AM   #24
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Thanks a lot for your help guys, but I just saw the announcement.

PROJECT CANCELED!

I thought I would hold myself off, but I didn't expect this big an improvement in the new mac pros. It's like apple read my mind. I just wanted 4 cores as I don't really need 8 for anything, but I wanted the fastest processors. And at only $600 more, it's totally worth it. 4870 is great news as well. DVI + a mini display port to DVI/VGA is great as well.

This is the most significant upgrade of the mac pros ever, and I can't let it go. Just seeing on the performance page... the new 2.9 with 4870 beats the old 3.2 with 2600 by 6.6 times in COD4, and 5.1 times in quake 4, that incredible. I mean the 8800 was what, 3 times the 2600 before at most? That would mean this mac pro is 2X the best possible 2008 mac pro. Thats like taking a game running at 30 fps on the 2600 and now it would be 180 fps. Just wow! A mac that can actually compare it's self to high end gaming PCs. Now all it needs is SLI and crossfire.
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